Top ten buying tips.
Discussion
Someone I know is thinking long and hard about buying a Griff and lets set a hypothetical budget of £14K( i.e top pre-cat or early 500 money)
Now as its 8 years since my last ownership of a Griff would would be your top ten buying tips.
Some that I can think of include,
Buy on condition not mileage,
Get chassis inspected for corrosion,
If a 500, go for T5 and serpentine,
Speak to James Agger?
Take your time!
Go to a couple of club meets, fortunately his local branch is Mid-Essex which is huge........
and some more please?
N.B., Picked my Noble up from TVR centre yesterday and had a quick chat with a current Griff owner. They really are even now achingly beautiful, wonderful sounding cars, brought back some great memories of the 2 I had.
Now as its 8 years since my last ownership of a Griff would would be your top ten buying tips.
Some that I can think of include,
Buy on condition not mileage,
Get chassis inspected for corrosion,
If a 500, go for T5 and serpentine,
Speak to James Agger?
Take your time!
Go to a couple of club meets, fortunately his local branch is Mid-Essex which is huge........
and some more please?
N.B., Picked my Noble up from TVR centre yesterday and had a quick chat with a current Griff owner. They really are even now achingly beautiful, wonderful sounding cars, brought back some great memories of the 2 I had.
No. 1. Chassis - Outrigers and below manifolds.
I wouldn't be put off by LT77S Gearboxes as long as they are looked after. Just make sure they work and don't make nasty bearing noises. Make sure there is no noticable noise difference between 4th and any other forward gear. Worst case you can get an exchange unit for about £350.
Certainly wouldn't rule out a good 500 because of a gearbox.
I wouldn't be put off by LT77S Gearboxes as long as they are looked after. Just make sure they work and don't make nasty bearing noises. Make sure there is no noticable noise difference between 4th and any other forward gear. Worst case you can get an exchange unit for about £350.
Certainly wouldn't rule out a good 500 because of a gearbox.
1) Full history, or large discount and extensive inspection
2) Many have had bodywork - don't necessarily be put off, but make sure it was done properly
3) Usual mechanical checks apply
4) Check all the electrics work
5) Check it starts OK when hot
6) Check for even, clean pulling through the rev range
7) Check for windscreen delamination
8) Check for engine oil leaks from the gearbox (crankshaft end seal gone)
9) Don't be afraid to buy on colour, but be sure of the cost of any remedial work
10) Buying privately lets you interview the seller
2) Many have had bodywork - don't necessarily be put off, but make sure it was done properly
3) Usual mechanical checks apply
4) Check all the electrics work
5) Check it starts OK when hot
6) Check for even, clean pulling through the rev range
7) Check for windscreen delamination
8) Check for engine oil leaks from the gearbox (crankshaft end seal gone)
9) Don't be afraid to buy on colour, but be sure of the cost of any remedial work
10) Buying privately lets you interview the seller
Further to this (as I am in exactly the same boat...even down to purchase budget). What should the idle be like on a Pre Serp/Serp, HC or non HC? I'm guessing completely smooth if non HC, slightly lumpier if HC (all around 1K)? Only that I saw my first one last week and the idle was lumpier than I would have thought which led to a discussion with the seller about it that I wasn't 100% clued up about...
I would also endorse everything Grifter and RAW-SEWedge have said to.
With regard to serp/pre serp 500's, i have owned both and from my own experience i found that my pre-serp 500 had more torque but was slightly lumpier at low revs, and I never had any temperature problems with the pre-serp, but have had plenty with the serp (All Tivs are unique and have their own quirks).
Both should tick over smoothly at 900/1k rpm if they are properly maintained.
From what I have read the "HC" suffix on the plenum chamber is a bit of a red herring - some say it means High Compression, but most believe its just whatever labels were lying around in the factory at the time.
As for the T5 or LT77 gearboxes, I have owned both and from my own experience I actually preferred the LT77 box, the gearchange was much smoother and I never missed 5th gear which I do regularly on the T5 box. The LT77 is supposed to be more fragile which is why people say go for the T5 box.
Chassis corrosion is the big one tho, Inspect the top rail of the ladder frame as well as the outriggers, as they suffer from corrosion in ealy cars.
>> Edited by bluebottle on Thursday 21st July 23:45
With regard to serp/pre serp 500's, i have owned both and from my own experience i found that my pre-serp 500 had more torque but was slightly lumpier at low revs, and I never had any temperature problems with the pre-serp, but have had plenty with the serp (All Tivs are unique and have their own quirks).
Both should tick over smoothly at 900/1k rpm if they are properly maintained.
From what I have read the "HC" suffix on the plenum chamber is a bit of a red herring - some say it means High Compression, but most believe its just whatever labels were lying around in the factory at the time.
As for the T5 or LT77 gearboxes, I have owned both and from my own experience I actually preferred the LT77 box, the gearchange was much smoother and I never missed 5th gear which I do regularly on the T5 box. The LT77 is supposed to be more fragile which is why people say go for the T5 box.
Chassis corrosion is the big one tho, Inspect the top rail of the ladder frame as well as the outriggers, as they suffer from corrosion in ealy cars.
>> Edited by bluebottle on Thursday 21st July 23:45
Yep Take your time. Photos, phone calls, travel etc
Then take more time
Beware "never raced" claims, unless 1 owner who can show you his insurance docs
Check repaints on multi owner vehicles
Talk to garages who have serviced vehicle ( I rang one that a vendor told me to ring to vouch for the car's condition during my search and the guy said "Of course, you do know it was a Cat D, dont you?" ) I know people will say Cat D's aint a problem, but why buy one when there's lots of cared for models out there?
Oil consumption - if seller doesnt know, why not?
>> Edited by shadowfax on Wednesday 20th July 21:28
Then take more time
Beware "never raced" claims, unless 1 owner who can show you his insurance docs
Check repaints on multi owner vehicles
Talk to garages who have serviced vehicle ( I rang one that a vendor told me to ring to vouch for the car's condition during my search and the guy said "Of course, you do know it was a Cat D, dont you?" ) I know people will say Cat D's aint a problem, but why buy one when there's lots of cared for models out there?
Oil consumption - if seller doesnt know, why not?
>> Edited by shadowfax on Wednesday 20th July 21:28
A couple of other points,
Make damn sure the front upper wishbones have not rusted through (attack with a screwdriver).
Also the bushes on these wishbones are prone to wear. Make sure the wishbones eyes are not rubbing on the chassis brackets. Ideally, Cerbera thrust washers should be fitted as a modification, but not all cars have it done.
Make sure there is no clonking from the rear. The diff to mounting plate srews can work loose, although of course this is easily fixed. The upper rear diff mounting bush can wear, which is not so easy.
Paul.
PS If it's got PAS, the oil seal where the steering column enters the rack is prone to leaking. Not the end of the world, but a bargaining point.
>> Edited by B16 RFF on Friday 22 July 11:33
Make damn sure the front upper wishbones have not rusted through (attack with a screwdriver).
Also the bushes on these wishbones are prone to wear. Make sure the wishbones eyes are not rubbing on the chassis brackets. Ideally, Cerbera thrust washers should be fitted as a modification, but not all cars have it done.
Make sure there is no clonking from the rear. The diff to mounting plate srews can work loose, although of course this is easily fixed. The upper rear diff mounting bush can wear, which is not so easy.
Paul.
PS If it's got PAS, the oil seal where the steering column enters the rack is prone to leaking. Not the end of the world, but a bargaining point.
>> Edited by B16 RFF on Friday 22 July 11:33
griffter said:
1) Full history, or large discount and extensive inspection
2) Many have had bodywork - don't necessarily be put off, but make sure it was done properly
3) Usual mechanical checks apply
4) Check all the electrics work
5) Check it starts OK when hot
6) Check for even, clean pulling through the rev range
7) Check for windscreen delamination
8) Check for engine oil leaks from the gearbox (crankshaft end seal gone)
9) Don't be afraid to buy on colour, but be sure of the cost of any remedial work
10) Buying privately lets you interview the seller
11) Spend £12k and keep £2k back as a 'warranty'.
bluebottle said:
As for the T5 or LT77 gearboxes, I have owned both and from my own experience I actually preferred the LT77 box, the gearchange was much smoother and I never missed 5th gear which I do regularly on the T5 box. The LT77 is supposed to be more fragile which is why people say go for the T5 box.
That's certainly the general wisdom but note that some people are very happy with the LT77 even for extreme applications. shpub has been putting 380ish bhp through it for quite a while now in a very spirited fashion.
bluebottle said:
From what I have read the "HC" suffix on the plenum chamber is a bit of a red herring - some say it means High Compression, but most believe its just whatever labels were lying around in the factory at the time.
On a minor point HC stands for High Lift Cam so it should be HLC really but the important point is that it's the name for a more racey TVR RV8.
The common PH mis-understanding is because all 500s are HC engines but it doesn't say so on all of the plenum chambers. It's different for the 400s because irrespective of the labelling issue they are different states of engine tune. Remember a good summary:
wheeljack888 said:
I've just recently took my engine apart and can confirm the following differances over standard 4.0 RV8s for my 4.0 HC:
TVR435R/M camshaft (High lift & long duration cam used in 4.5 & 5.0)
Vernier camshaft sprocket and double roller chain
Double spring valves
Machined pockets in piston crowns for valve clearance
Standard diameter but Waisted Inlet Valves
I'm assuming shorter valve guides to allow for higher lift.
The heads have been machined to accept double springs but are unfortunately not ported & polished though.
At the rollers it produced 198bhp at the wheels, an estimated 235 bhp at the flywheel.
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