Disappointing clutch and gear change feel
Discussion
Hi all
I recently purchased a 997.1 C2S and have previously owned a 987.1 Cayman S.
It's a great car overall but as I found on the Cayman, the clutch feel and gear change for me is pretty poor.
I found it with the Cayman and drove 3 of them - all the same. I just find the clutch 'squishy' and the gearchange lacking feel and precision.
I was expecting the 997 to be better than the Cayman but they feel exactly the same.
I'm comparing to some pretty high bars like the MX5 NB and Honda S2000 but I've had many other cars with lesser shifts and clucths and I have to say the 987/997 ranks pretty low down.
Am I missing something? Other than those (quite crucial) elements I've found both cars to be excellent.
I recently purchased a 997.1 C2S and have previously owned a 987.1 Cayman S.
It's a great car overall but as I found on the Cayman, the clutch feel and gear change for me is pretty poor.
I found it with the Cayman and drove 3 of them - all the same. I just find the clutch 'squishy' and the gearchange lacking feel and precision.
I was expecting the 997 to be better than the Cayman but they feel exactly the same.
I'm comparing to some pretty high bars like the MX5 NB and Honda S2000 but I've had many other cars with lesser shifts and clucths and I have to say the 987/997 ranks pretty low down.
Am I missing something? Other than those (quite crucial) elements I've found both cars to be excellent.
I think there's a helper spring on the clutch pedal that can be removed to make it a bit more manly.
Check the adjustment and alignment of the gear cables by removing the gear stick surround. Also worth checking if your engine mounts are past their best. These can result in a sloppy gear change.
Check the adjustment and alignment of the gear cables by removing the gear stick surround. Also worth checking if your engine mounts are past their best. These can result in a sloppy gear change.
Coming from many years of DC2 ITR, the 996 gearshift (both N/A and turbo) is a real disappointment - it's nothing like as fast or as precise as a good Honda box, but then it's dealing with a ton more power and torque.
One documented solution was to use the 997 shifter, but as you've tried a 997 then that isn't going to help either!
All I can say is that you eventually get used to it. I think the Porsche shift is good in comparison to many cars, it's just not in comparison to a good Honda "rifle bolt action" box
One documented solution was to use the 997 shifter, but as you've tried a 997 then that isn't going to help either!
All I can say is that you eventually get used to it. I think the Porsche shift is good in comparison to many cars, it's just not in comparison to a good Honda "rifle bolt action" box
Thanks all, interesting to hear people's thoughts
Cencensus seems to be then that those elements just aren't really the strong point of the car. I'm just surprised as when you read reviews everything is written like Porsche are the masters of everything
The clutch modification sounds very appealing, is it is to do and reverse for a novice mechanic?
Cencensus seems to be then that those elements just aren't really the strong point of the car. I'm just surprised as when you read reviews everything is written like Porsche are the masters of everything
The clutch modification sounds very appealing, is it is to do and reverse for a novice mechanic?
Edited by rotaryjam on Tuesday 15th June 13:16
I can recommend the Function first shifter mod. I've tried other solutions like CAE but found the FF offering to be superb it truly makes the box feel rifle bolt precise, mine is the GT2 box which is even more heavy duty and will never feel like the Honda boxes which are simply the best but as has been said we are transferring a bit more torque about
http://www.function-first.com/products/engine-tran...
http://www.function-first.com/products/engine-tran...
It's not too difficult changing the shift mechanism for a novice (I say this as a novice having tried) so a cost effective way of trying it out is to go for one of the millions of £40 eBay 987/997 short shift kits and fit it and see if it makes up some of the difference you're expecting. Before spending £300 on the oem GT3 ssk or a better aftermarket choice.
http://www.911uk.com/viewtopic.php?p=1458264 there's a straightforward bush upgrade you can do to the ebay shift and there's a guy on there who tightens up the machining/tolerance of them to make them better.
http://www.911uk.com/viewtopic.php?p=1458264 there's a straightforward bush upgrade you can do to the ebay shift and there's a guy on there who tightens up the machining/tolerance of them to make them better.
That's great, I think I'll give a cheap short shift kit and the clutch pedal mod a try then, hopefully that should improve two of the weak spots.
The last one I didn't mention is noise. In stock form without PSE it's just a bit too quiet, and I don't like loud cars! I've heard of the gundo hack and airbox mod - does anyone have experience with them? I wouldn't be keen on making any non-reversible changes really.
The last one I didn't mention is noise. In stock form without PSE it's just a bit too quiet, and I don't like loud cars! I've heard of the gundo hack and airbox mod - does anyone have experience with them? I wouldn't be keen on making any non-reversible changes really.
Edited by rotaryjam on Tuesday 15th June 14:40
I got into a 986 S a few weeks ago and Mrs PB is not best pleased at how heavy the clutch is. Thankfully, as a result, we haven't got as far as her discovering how easy it is to select reverse instead of first!
I never had her down as a PH'er, but it would appear her benchmark is the NA and NC MX5s we've had in the past. I doubt the FK Civic Tourer family hack is helping the poor old Boxster's cause either. Who knew a 1.6 Dtec could have such a sweet change?!
Interesting to read there are some fixes and I think I now need to root around to see whether the helper spring is on the clutch pedal.
I never had her down as a PH'er, but it would appear her benchmark is the NA and NC MX5s we've had in the past. I doubt the FK Civic Tourer family hack is helping the poor old Boxster's cause either. Who knew a 1.6 Dtec could have such a sweet change?!
Interesting to read there are some fixes and I think I now need to root around to see whether the helper spring is on the clutch pedal.
On an MX-5 there is no "linkage" the gearstick is literally directly on top of the box. I assume the S2000 and others are the same. It feels rifle bolt because, you are literally interacting directly with the rifle bolt!
With the best will in the world no mid or rear engined car with a remote shift mechanism is going to be able to rival a direct setup designed for about half the power.
One would assume magazine reviews are taking this into account and judging the Cayman/911 shift relative to rivals with similar engine positions.
With the best will in the world no mid or rear engined car with a remote shift mechanism is going to be able to rival a direct setup designed for about half the power.
One would assume magazine reviews are taking this into account and judging the Cayman/911 shift relative to rivals with similar engine positions.
I wouldn’t disconnect the helper spring - mine broke in my 996 and it was awful. Incredibly heavy!
The normal shifters have nylon bushings and they wear out. I recently fitted the 997 GT3 shifter in mine, with the metal bushings and it is so much better.
Comment on engine mounts is valid and also affects handling - mine were sloppy and the car felt unsettled over undulating road. Basically the engine was going up when the car was going down. I fitted 993 RS mounts rather than an aftermarket semi solid kit and it was a revelation!
Another point often overlooked is the hydraulic clutch shares a reservoir with the brakes. Brake fluid is changed every 2 or 3 years. Does the clutch get bled at the same time?? Could be very old fluid in there at the gearbox end!
Ian
The normal shifters have nylon bushings and they wear out. I recently fitted the 997 GT3 shifter in mine, with the metal bushings and it is so much better.
Comment on engine mounts is valid and also affects handling - mine were sloppy and the car felt unsettled over undulating road. Basically the engine was going up when the car was going down. I fitted 993 RS mounts rather than an aftermarket semi solid kit and it was a revelation!
Another point often overlooked is the hydraulic clutch shares a reservoir with the brakes. Brake fluid is changed every 2 or 3 years. Does the clutch get bled at the same time?? Could be very old fluid in there at the gearbox end!
Ian
The shift in my 996 is honestly better than any of the 5 NA/NB mx5s I've owned. I've read so many comments about vague or sloppy shifting that I was convinced mine had something special fitted. I recently took it apart and noted its all standard. Its just that it's all in good order and aligned really well. So its definitely possible to get the OE stuff working well. Just maybe not quite as good as my old EP3 admittedly.
I'd start by making sure everything that's currently on the car is in good health and properly set. If that's all fine I'd try a weighted shift knob first. I'd probably consider mounts before the cheap SSK. I've just read mixed reviews on them and they definitely seem to need Alex's updated bushes.
Regarding the noise. The 9A1 engine just doesn't sound quite as good as any of it's predecessors I'm afraid. I think the open mode on a PSE more or less is a gundo hack (ie it bypasses most of the silencer) so I wouldn't go modifying it. I'd look at an intake to get a bit more gravel in the sound or stainless manifolds.
I'd start by making sure everything that's currently on the car is in good health and properly set. If that's all fine I'd try a weighted shift knob first. I'd probably consider mounts before the cheap SSK. I've just read mixed reviews on them and they definitely seem to need Alex's updated bushes.
Regarding the noise. The 9A1 engine just doesn't sound quite as good as any of it's predecessors I'm afraid. I think the open mode on a PSE more or less is a gundo hack (ie it bypasses most of the silencer) so I wouldn't go modifying it. I'd look at an intake to get a bit more gravel in the sound or stainless manifolds.
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