EVs on their way out?
Discussion
For some years now I've thought it pointless considering an electric vehicle.
We all know they can't work for the masses as running a cable into your terraced house isn't going to be practical. Neither is producing the vast amount of electricity needed when everyone has one and switches on the charger at night. Perhaps we could burn coal to provide for the shortfall? There's an idea.
No, EVs are certainly the Beta-max of the future, and will be worth about as much in 10 years time. So what's the VHS alternative?
Hydrogen. It's not as efficient as a battery powered vehicle as it has to be converted to electricity onboard. It's also been expensive to produce. But recent progress has been made:
See: https://www.h2-view.com/story/breakthrough-technol...
https://renews.biz/66989/israeli-green-hydrogen-st...
https://pro.southbankresearch.com/p/FTI-0321-hydro...
So, I'm happy to hold out for a car which used the most abundant element on earth and produces water in its wake.
Why so many lemmings heading for EV obsolescence then?
We all know they can't work for the masses as running a cable into your terraced house isn't going to be practical. Neither is producing the vast amount of electricity needed when everyone has one and switches on the charger at night. Perhaps we could burn coal to provide for the shortfall? There's an idea.
No, EVs are certainly the Beta-max of the future, and will be worth about as much in 10 years time. So what's the VHS alternative?
Hydrogen. It's not as efficient as a battery powered vehicle as it has to be converted to electricity onboard. It's also been expensive to produce. But recent progress has been made:
See: https://www.h2-view.com/story/breakthrough-technol...
https://renews.biz/66989/israeli-green-hydrogen-st...
https://pro.southbankresearch.com/p/FTI-0321-hydro...
So, I'm happy to hold out for a car which used the most abundant element on earth and produces water in its wake.
Why so many lemmings heading for EV obsolescence then?
Well for me personally, an EV is just better in every way than a hydrogen car could ever be because it has the convenience that I can charge it at home. Why on earth would I want to pay far more to buy and run a far less convenient car?
If they're more convenient for you and you're happy to pay many times the running costs for that convenience, fill your boots. I think you'll be in a minority.
If they're more convenient for you and you're happy to pay many times the running costs for that convenience, fill your boots. I think you'll be in a minority.
LOL here we go again with the hydrogen nonsense. All the disadvantages of a fossil car, dubious environmental credentials.
Running electricity outside terrace houses... You may have noticed these tall grey poles on the street, with little lights attached to the top. You may also be surprised to learn they don't run on gas any more, they are electric!
Running electricity outside terrace houses... You may have noticed these tall grey poles on the street, with little lights attached to the top. You may also be surprised to learn they don't run on gas any more, they are electric!
kambites said:
Well for me personally, an EV is just better in every way than a hydrogen car could ever be because it has the convenience that I can charge it at home. Why on earth would I want to pay far more to buy and run a far less convenient car?
If they're more convenient for you and you're happy to pay many times the running costs for that convenience, fill your boots. I think you'll be in a minority.
Is it more convenient to have to stop your EV and charge somewhere for 45 minutes or to fill up on hydrogen in 4?If they're more convenient for you and you're happy to pay many times the running costs for that convenience, fill your boots. I think you'll be in a minority.
aestetix1 said:
LOL here we go again with the hydrogen nonsense. All the disadvantages of a fossil car, dubious environmental credentials.
Running electricity outside terrace houses... You may have noticed these tall grey poles on the street, with little lights attached to the top. You may also be surprised to learn they don't run on gas any more, they are electric!
Ah, silly me. So you shimmy up the pole then, twist the wires together inside the top where the big bulb is, shimmy down with the cable and plug into your EV? Yes, that would stop you having to run a cable from your house across the pavement.Running electricity outside terrace houses... You may have noticed these tall grey poles on the street, with little lights attached to the top. You may also be surprised to learn they don't run on gas any more, they are electric!
DJMC said:
We all know they can't work for the masses as running a cable into your terraced house isn't going to be practical. Neither is producing the vast amount of electricity needed when everyone has one and switches on the charger at night. Perhaps we could burn coal to provide for the shortfall? There's an idea.
No, EVs are certainly the Beta-max of the future, and will be worth about as much in 10 years time. So what's the VHS alternative?
Hydrogen. It's not as efficient as a battery powered vehicle as it has to be converted to electricity onboard. It's also been expensive to produce. But recent progress has been made:
So, I'm happy to hold out for a car which used the most abundant element on earth and produces water in its wake.
Why so many lemmings heading for EV obsolescence then?
Most people can now 'fill up' at home with an EV. The fact they couldn't before didn't stop the rise of petrol/diesel.No, EVs are certainly the Beta-max of the future, and will be worth about as much in 10 years time. So what's the VHS alternative?
Hydrogen. It's not as efficient as a battery powered vehicle as it has to be converted to electricity onboard. It's also been expensive to produce. But recent progress has been made:
So, I'm happy to hold out for a car which used the most abundant element on earth and produces water in its wake.
Why so many lemmings heading for EV obsolescence then?
You're assuming everyone will plug their cars in at the same time daily. Just like they do when we all go the petrol stations at the same time every day. Charging up will not be an issue, people will charge 2-3 times at most every week and they will mostly do it at night when all other electrical demands are almost zero.
Hydrogen uses more energy than it provides to produce it.
EVs offer simplicity and convenience and simplicity. Fuel cell vehicles offer none of those.
In summary, Fuel Cell cars are Betamax, EVs are VHS.
MOBB said:
My prediction is that petrol pumps will be replaced by ev charge points, taking 5 mins to charge.
Then you can charge at home if you have a drive etc, ev station if you don’t
By the time 5 mins is possible, perhaps manufacturers will all have got together and produced a small (Beta-Max?) battery pack.Then you can charge at home if you have a drive etc, ev station if you don’t
You drive in to the charging station, pack under the car is replaced with a charged one in 1 minute, off you go.
DJMC said:
kambites said:
Well for me personally, an EV is just better in every way than a hydrogen car could ever be because it has the convenience that I can charge it at home. Why on earth would I want to pay far more to buy and run a far less convenient car?
If they're more convenient for you and you're happy to pay many times the running costs for that convenience, fill your boots. I think you'll be in a minority.
Is it more convenient to have to stop your EV and charge somewhere for 45 minutes or to fill up on hydrogen in 4?If they're more convenient for you and you're happy to pay many times the running costs for that convenience, fill your boots. I think you'll be in a minority.
DJMC said:
aestetix1 said:
LOL here we go again with the hydrogen nonsense. All the disadvantages of a fossil car, dubious environmental credentials.
Running electricity outside terrace houses... You may have noticed these tall grey poles on the street, with little lights attached to the top. You may also be surprised to learn they don't run on gas any more, they are electric!
Ah, silly me. So you shimmy up the pole then, twist the wires together inside the top where the big bulb is, shimmy down with the cable and plug into your EV? Yes, that would stop you having to run a cable from your house across the pavement.Running electricity outside terrace houses... You may have noticed these tall grey poles on the street, with little lights attached to the top. You may also be surprised to learn they don't run on gas any more, they are electric!
aestetix1 said:
LOL here we go again with the hydrogen nonsense. All the disadvantages of a fossil car, dubious environmental credentials.
Running electricity outside terrace houses... You may have noticed these tall grey poles on the street, with little lights attached to the top. You may also be surprised to learn they don't run on gas any more, they are electric!
Just on this point, is it not going to lead to a spiders web of cables, assuming you're a couple of cars away from the charing lamp?Running electricity outside terrace houses... You may have noticed these tall grey poles on the street, with little lights attached to the top. You may also be surprised to learn they don't run on gas any more, they are electric!
Frimley111R said:
Most people can now 'fill up' at home with an EV. The fact they couldn't before didn't stop the rise of petrol/diesel.
You're assuming everyone will plug their cars in at the same time daily. Just like they do when we all go the petrol stations at the same time every day. Charging up will not be an issue, people will charge 2-3 times at most every week and they will mostly do it at night when all other electrical demands are almost zero.
Hydrogen uses more energy than it provides to produce it.
EVs offer simplicity and convenience and simplicity. Fuel cell vehicles offer none of those.
In summary, Fuel Cell cars are Betamax, EVs are VHS.
I think "most" people living in cities would struggle to fill ups at home.You're assuming everyone will plug their cars in at the same time daily. Just like they do when we all go the petrol stations at the same time every day. Charging up will not be an issue, people will charge 2-3 times at most every week and they will mostly do it at night when all other electrical demands are almost zero.
Hydrogen uses more energy than it provides to produce it.
EVs offer simplicity and convenience and simplicity. Fuel cell vehicles offer none of those.
In summary, Fuel Cell cars are Betamax, EVs are VHS.
I would also guess that more people live in properties without driveways to charge their car than those who do.
There would be cable mayhem!
DJMC said:
Evanivitch said:
It's fair to say you've provided zero original thoughts to a discussion that has been repeated several dozen times on PH throughout the last few years.
Why is this thread any different?
Did you read the links? Particularly the Israeli breakthrough?Why is this thread any different?
"E-TAC produces 30% more hydrogen than traditional electrolysis per kWh the start-up claims."
And I was reminded of this...
30% isn't a game changer for what is fundamentally an inefficient use of electricity. And that's if, and only if they actually prove their system works at an industrial scale.
caymanbill said:
Just on this point, is it not going to lead to a spiders web of cables, assuming you're a couple of cars away from the charing lamp?
Eventually you will be able to charge at "charging stations" in about 5-10 mins and in multiple other places you visit on a weekly basis with no need for home charging IF it's difficult for you.Just checked Mr Jeeves and it seems 75% have access to off road parking (although i don't know if this is accurate etc)
"We analysed all 27 million households in Great Britain to understand whether they can or cannot park and charge an electric vehicle off street at home. Through this research, we determined that a staggering 24.6% of households don’t have access to off street parking."
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