Is there a resident car problem legal expert in the forum?
Discussion
markbigears said:
Hi, depends how the next few days pan out, but might have the need for a paid professional, if there is indeed such a person, could i have your details please. It's concerning a problem with a car that was present at the time of sale from an independent dealer.
All the best, Mark
Er...aren't all cars present at time of sale? All the best, Mark
Or do you mean a different car to the one you were buying - the one with the Russian spy in watching your every move?
Can't help with an address, but googling "independent car assessors uk" throws up a list of companies offering this kind of service.
If it helps, I used the equivalent kind of service here in Belgium last year for someone in the UK who was interested in buying a classic car, but who couldn't travel owing to the Covid restrictions. A visit to inspect the car, and full written report cost €230.
If it helps, I used the equivalent kind of service here in Belgium last year for someone in the UK who was interested in buying a classic car, but who couldn't travel owing to the Covid restrictions. A visit to inspect the car, and full written report cost €230.
Ok, so here is the story. bought a car for £7,200 end of November 2020 from an independent dealer in Essex.
Mini Countryman 2012 full dealer history 42,000miles.
Car is mint, the right colour for us, no paint, no dents or marks and high spec, leather, all the nice interior bits.
So all in all, exactly what we were looking for.
So bought the car, bank transfer, and all was well.
Got home and had a good long read of the service history. (I obviously skimmed it at the dealers) all main dealer stamps un to date.
Last bill was a big one, major service and a few hundred spent on the coolant side, looked like everything apart from the water pump.
anyway, on the last sheet there was a single line where the car was still losing coolant and went back for further investigation and pressure testing,
no fault found. This was 3 months before i purchased it. If i'd have read this in the office i'd have picked up on it, but missed it.
Didn't use the car for a few weeks then the wife started to use it to potter about in. As she was furloughed and i was working from home, the car wasn't getting much use.
after a few weeks i noticed a coolant drop, not a great deal but it had dropped. Then i opened the Oil filer cap and there was the dreaded white mayo under the cap. I put 2 and 2 together and got "Head gasket failure", my heart sank.
Got on to the dealer, who said it can't possibly be that but to bring it over for their mechanic to take a look. Went over there, had it up on the ramp and neither of us could see any coolant at all. Car was driving fine, no misfires, no white smoke, no dash lights, nothing to indicate head gasket failure.
I even popped it down to a mate of a mate who did a hydrocarbons test on it. Negative, i was happy that it must be something small leaking.
So took car back and used car every now and again, still topping up every few weeks half inch on the header tank.
Then the wife went back to work. This showed we had a problem. doing 20 miles a day, and the header tank needed half topping up.
Then i got a break, i could see coolant on top of the gearbox housing and it was right under the thermostat housing. These are plastic and fail regularly on new minis.
We where now 6 months since buying the car, (had a 3 months warranty from dealer) so i booked it in to BMW mini main dealer that takes care of my other mini cooper. They wanted £136 "diagnostic" charge, but i was confident it was the thermostat housing so just said, change it.
Turns out after a longish drive it wasn't! wife not happy, £230 down the drain. So i agree to the diagnostic fee and they change 2 hoses. still leaking. Goes back again and they have the car in for a 4 hour diagnostic tear down. (didn't charge me) and found a coolant leak from the side of the head.
They confirmed head gasket has failed externally leaking coolant.
It's now 7 months on, so i call the dealer to tell them the bad news, this was last week.
They promise to replace the head gasket free of charge as they missed the fault on the pre delivery inspection. Car goes off, a few days later i get a call.
They can't see any leaks and have pressure tested it and have just re torqued the head bolts. To be far, sometimes you can drive the car a few hours with no leaks and then on a 10 minute drive you can get a jet of coolant release. I did explain this to the mechanic, but he was 100% sure it was "fixed".
I had a 3 way call with the independent dealership and the mechanic where i told them the problem will show quite quick if it's not.
fast forward to today and the car arrives ..... first thing i do is pop the bonnet ..... you could see where the coolant had come from and puddles on the
gearbox tunnel as before. I get the driver to call the boss as i'm bloody fuming by now.
Anyway, i compose myself and the car is taken back and a phone call later to both mechanic and dealership and the head gasket is going to be replaced.
Should have the car back early next week.
The whole episode has really annoyed me and i'm not sure if i should just reject the car outright or get it fixed and get a warranty on it. Dealership will give me a year.
sorry i'm rambling, but it was therapeutic getting it down on virtual paper.
Any comments welcome, i'm not even sure what i'm asking! maybe what would you have done / do now? I'm probably opening myself up for "get it fixed" and "move on"
All the best, Mark
Mini Countryman 2012 full dealer history 42,000miles.
Car is mint, the right colour for us, no paint, no dents or marks and high spec, leather, all the nice interior bits.
So all in all, exactly what we were looking for.
So bought the car, bank transfer, and all was well.
Got home and had a good long read of the service history. (I obviously skimmed it at the dealers) all main dealer stamps un to date.
Last bill was a big one, major service and a few hundred spent on the coolant side, looked like everything apart from the water pump.
anyway, on the last sheet there was a single line where the car was still losing coolant and went back for further investigation and pressure testing,
no fault found. This was 3 months before i purchased it. If i'd have read this in the office i'd have picked up on it, but missed it.
Didn't use the car for a few weeks then the wife started to use it to potter about in. As she was furloughed and i was working from home, the car wasn't getting much use.
after a few weeks i noticed a coolant drop, not a great deal but it had dropped. Then i opened the Oil filer cap and there was the dreaded white mayo under the cap. I put 2 and 2 together and got "Head gasket failure", my heart sank.
Got on to the dealer, who said it can't possibly be that but to bring it over for their mechanic to take a look. Went over there, had it up on the ramp and neither of us could see any coolant at all. Car was driving fine, no misfires, no white smoke, no dash lights, nothing to indicate head gasket failure.
I even popped it down to a mate of a mate who did a hydrocarbons test on it. Negative, i was happy that it must be something small leaking.
So took car back and used car every now and again, still topping up every few weeks half inch on the header tank.
Then the wife went back to work. This showed we had a problem. doing 20 miles a day, and the header tank needed half topping up.
Then i got a break, i could see coolant on top of the gearbox housing and it was right under the thermostat housing. These are plastic and fail regularly on new minis.
We where now 6 months since buying the car, (had a 3 months warranty from dealer) so i booked it in to BMW mini main dealer that takes care of my other mini cooper. They wanted £136 "diagnostic" charge, but i was confident it was the thermostat housing so just said, change it.
Turns out after a longish drive it wasn't! wife not happy, £230 down the drain. So i agree to the diagnostic fee and they change 2 hoses. still leaking. Goes back again and they have the car in for a 4 hour diagnostic tear down. (didn't charge me) and found a coolant leak from the side of the head.
They confirmed head gasket has failed externally leaking coolant.
It's now 7 months on, so i call the dealer to tell them the bad news, this was last week.
They promise to replace the head gasket free of charge as they missed the fault on the pre delivery inspection. Car goes off, a few days later i get a call.
They can't see any leaks and have pressure tested it and have just re torqued the head bolts. To be far, sometimes you can drive the car a few hours with no leaks and then on a 10 minute drive you can get a jet of coolant release. I did explain this to the mechanic, but he was 100% sure it was "fixed".
I had a 3 way call with the independent dealership and the mechanic where i told them the problem will show quite quick if it's not.
fast forward to today and the car arrives ..... first thing i do is pop the bonnet ..... you could see where the coolant had come from and puddles on the
gearbox tunnel as before. I get the driver to call the boss as i'm bloody fuming by now.
Anyway, i compose myself and the car is taken back and a phone call later to both mechanic and dealership and the head gasket is going to be replaced.
Should have the car back early next week.
The whole episode has really annoyed me and i'm not sure if i should just reject the car outright or get it fixed and get a warranty on it. Dealership will give me a year.
sorry i'm rambling, but it was therapeutic getting it down on virtual paper.
Any comments welcome, i'm not even sure what i'm asking! maybe what would you have done / do now? I'm probably opening myself up for "get it fixed" and "move on"
All the best, Mark
Edited by markbigears on Wednesday 23 June 20:02
markbigears said:
Anyway, i compose myself and the car is taken back and a phone call later to both mechanic and dealership and the head gasket is going to be replaced.
Should have the car back early next week.
The whole episode has really annoyed me and i'm not sure if i should just reject the car outright or get it fixed and get a warranty on it. Dealership will give me a year.
sorry i'm rambling, but it was therapeutic getting it down on virtual paper.
Any comments welcome, i'm not even sure what i'm asking! maybe what would you have done / do now? I'm probably opening myself up for "get it fixed" and "move on"
All the best, Mark
Hi Mark, I'm not a lawyer, but I've vast experience in the motor trade.Should have the car back early next week.
The whole episode has really annoyed me and i'm not sure if i should just reject the car outright or get it fixed and get a warranty on it. Dealership will give me a year.
sorry i'm rambling, but it was therapeutic getting it down on virtual paper.
Any comments welcome, i'm not even sure what i'm asking! maybe what would you have done / do now? I'm probably opening myself up for "get it fixed" and "move on"
All the best, Mark
Edited by markbigears on Wednesday 23 June 20:02
What would I do now?
I'd let the garage fix it, and let them extend your warranty to one year. It sounds like they want to do the right thing.
Then, if the fault persists afterwards I'd think about a rejection. (but hopefully it wont)
You informed them very early on about coolant loss so even though you're over the six months you'll have a good chance of convincing a judge that the fault was there at the point of sale, and they've attempted a repair relative to that coolant loss.
But,
Your only sticking point might be that the car went to another dealership to be worked on. Did the supplying garage authorise this? Did you give them an opportunity to repair the car? That might not go in your favour I'm afraid.
Also, a rejection at this point will allow the garage to make a reduction for use of the car so that might end in a bitter argument.
Anyhow, that's only my thoughts, so if anyone disagrees that's fine, I'm always happy to be corrected or educated.
Hopefully they'll fix it and you'll be able to enjoy the car.
Thanks Trevor555,
I only went to the main dealer after the 3 months warranty was up and was told by the supply dealer it wasn’t head gasket failure,
So as I didn’t take out extended warranty I assumed I had no come back on the dealer as
It must be some other problem that was down to me to sort.
I only went to the main dealer after the 3 months warranty was up and was told by the supply dealer it wasn’t head gasket failure,
So as I didn’t take out extended warranty I assumed I had no come back on the dealer as
It must be some other problem that was down to me to sort.
markbigears said:
I only went to the main dealer after the 3 months warranty was up and was told by the supply dealer it wasn’t head gasket failure,
So you called them to tell them the coolant loss is still a problem, and they said "It's not head gasket failure"So that would hopefully be viewed as them declining to repair the car at that point?
If that's the case then that'll go in your favour, hopefully, if you have to try for a rejection.
Rejection can get messy though, and can drag on..Ask me how I know?
I've rejected three motorcycles, and one brand new car since we entered lockdown.
But as I mentioned earlier, Citizens advice were great, and with their guidance I won against the mighty Bmw, even though they went into complete silence mode. (behind the scenes they instructed the dealer to refund) but took 7 months.
I would get the car back and see if issue is resolved, if not reject.
Its 9 years old, there are always going to be risks with cars that age, granted the dealer should have fixed it .
If its the spec you want then just enjoy it
TBH most dealers would still be fobbing you off now that sell cars at that price point
Its 9 years old, there are always going to be risks with cars that age, granted the dealer should have fixed it .
If its the spec you want then just enjoy it
TBH most dealers would still be fobbing you off now that sell cars at that price point
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