Why do some drivers fail to see cyclists at junctions?
Discussion
In the last month, two cyclists have been mown down by vehicles at a couple of junctions down the road from my house.
Why is it so difficult for some drivers to stop at junctions and make the appropriate observations?
I understand that sometimes mistakes can happen. However, there seem to be a lot of distracted drivers on the roads.
Makes me extra careful when out on the bicycle. Sometimes, you can't avoid things though.
Why is it so difficult for some drivers to stop at junctions and make the appropriate observations?
I understand that sometimes mistakes can happen. However, there seem to be a lot of distracted drivers on the roads.
Makes me extra careful when out on the bicycle. Sometimes, you can't avoid things though.
https://youtu.be/x94PGgYKHQ0
This is one of the best explanations I've seen, most of it applies to bicycles as well as the motorised kind
This is one of the best explanations I've seen, most of it applies to bicycles as well as the motorised kind
NewBod said:
In the last month, two cyclists have been mown down by vehicles at a couple of junctions down the road from my house.
Why is it so difficult for some drivers to stop at junctions and make the appropriate observations?
I understand that sometimes mistakes can happen. However, there seem to be a lot of distracted drivers on the roads.
Makes me extra careful when out on the bicycle. Sometimes, you can't avoid things though.
Unfortunately some who use the roads aren't the brightest. The mode of transport doesn't seem to make much difference, idiots are idiots regardless of what they drive/ride. Why is it so difficult for some drivers to stop at junctions and make the appropriate observations?
I understand that sometimes mistakes can happen. However, there seem to be a lot of distracted drivers on the roads.
Makes me extra careful when out on the bicycle. Sometimes, you can't avoid things though.
I reckon two reasons.
1. because they aren’t looking for cyclists, just cars, so cyclists fail to register, even if they are ‘seen’.
2. because they really didn’t see them. Your vision isn’t continuous and your brain fills in the gaps. It’s the reason why videos appear to be fluid motion when really they are a sequence of stills. In the split second you are looking to the side, your brain might be making information up, rather than relaying you the actual scene.
Google ‘A fighter pilots guide to surviving on the roads’ if you want a detailed explanation. It advises you to look twice turning your head left, right, left then right again to minimise this sampling effect.
1. because they aren’t looking for cyclists, just cars, so cyclists fail to register, even if they are ‘seen’.
2. because they really didn’t see them. Your vision isn’t continuous and your brain fills in the gaps. It’s the reason why videos appear to be fluid motion when really they are a sequence of stills. In the split second you are looking to the side, your brain might be making information up, rather than relaying you the actual scene.
Google ‘A fighter pilots guide to surviving on the roads’ if you want a detailed explanation. It advises you to look twice turning your head left, right, left then right again to minimise this sampling effect.
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 2nd July 16:41
About 20 years ago I commuted most days from Sutton to Victoria by motorbike and i just wondered why cyclists seemed unable to see Red Traffic Lights - or motorbikes.
Or why cycle couriers in SW1 couldn't see pedestrians when riding on the pavement!
After all there were no pillars to impede their view - maybe they should have looked.
Or why cycle couriers in SW1 couldn't see pedestrians when riding on the pavement!
After all there were no pillars to impede their view - maybe they should have looked.
Not enough looking out observing potential hazards, and too much navigating through menu screens inside to set the heating, radio, streaming the podcast etc. Also complacency if drivers rely on new semi autonomous tech to identify and take positive action to avoid hazards. Not every driver takes 2 positive looks at junctions.
I also wear don't hit me day glow clothing plus flashing lights when out cycling. Loud, but surviving so far ;-)
I also wear don't hit me day glow clothing plus flashing lights when out cycling. Loud, but surviving so far ;-)
As a commuting cyclist it does amaze me the number of other cyclists who seem to try to hide, dark clothing, no lights, staying too close to the side of the road, squeezing up the sides of cars at junctions so they are hidden by the car etc etc.
Or course many drivers simply does look for them because they look at the patch of road they want to occupy next and just aim for that.
Or course many drivers simply does look for them because they look at the patch of road they want to occupy next and just aim for that.
Heaveho said:
You can lose something bigger than a bicycle momentarily in the width of an A pillar on a modern car......
I can vouch for this, I'm very attentive, ridden motorcycles a long time, yet on one occasion a cyclist coming around a roundabout I was joining was totally obscured by the stupidly wide A pillar on a works mpv I was using, good job that my passenger saw the cyclist in the nick of time.I saw a video two or three years ago which comprised various driving scenarios, on top of which were superimposed the place in the scene where the driver's vision was focused at any given time.
There were multiple drivers whose focus of attention was examined in this way, ranging from "average" drivers (no additional training) to those whom you could reasonably describe as being expert drivers.
What was very striking was that the average drivers' scan for hazards was basically no more than a glance in most cases, whereas the expert drivers spent a lot more time looking around the scene to extract more of the information available.
For me this very much supported the "Looked but did not see" problem as being a significant contributory factor, and it might be better put as "Glanced but did not see".
There were multiple drivers whose focus of attention was examined in this way, ranging from "average" drivers (no additional training) to those whom you could reasonably describe as being expert drivers.
What was very striking was that the average drivers' scan for hazards was basically no more than a glance in most cases, whereas the expert drivers spent a lot more time looking around the scene to extract more of the information available.
For me this very much supported the "Looked but did not see" problem as being a significant contributory factor, and it might be better put as "Glanced but did not see".
SilverB said:
Heaveho said:
You can lose something bigger than a bicycle momentarily in the width of an A pillar on a modern car......
I can vouch for this, I'm very attentive, ridden motorcycles a long time, yet on one occasion a cyclist coming around a roundabout I was joining was totally obscured by the stupidly wide A pillar on a works mpv I was using, good job that my passenger saw the cyclist in the nick of time.It was a case of 'I'm sure I saw a bike there? Oh yeah, there they are!'
Tommo87 said:
gazza285 said:
First reply to the thread and it is the cyclist's fault...
Thats ironic, given that the opening post was a million miles away from being impartial.And yes, it's a direct response to two incidents on my local road involving cyclists being hit by vehicles in broad daylight.
I spend a fair bit of time on the roads when riding my bike. I've seen a distinct increase in people playing with mobile phones over the last year.
Had this happen twice yesterday on opposing junctions when I was on my motorbike both times the driver didn’t look in my direction and just pulled out.
I put it down to lack of attentiveness people don’t do mirror or visual checks as much, especially when manoeuvring. I see this with reversing too because many cars have beepers and cameras people don’t actually look behind them when they reverse or even in the mirrors.
I put it down to lack of attentiveness people don’t do mirror or visual checks as much, especially when manoeuvring. I see this with reversing too because many cars have beepers and cameras people don’t actually look behind them when they reverse or even in the mirrors.
I have been aware of this problem for years .
Many out on the roads when given a standard eyesight test seem to have good vision , but they are failing to see hazards , cycles, motorbikes, pedestrians and fail to notice the speed of other road users .
Many with good vision are totally unaware of their surroundings and fail to absorb any of the information that is all around them .
So many are thinking of everything else going on in life apart from what is happening in front of them .
If your not looking for it you won't see it .
Many are also unable to read an emerging situation so then it becomes to late to react in the appropriate manner.
Many out on the roads when given a standard eyesight test seem to have good vision , but they are failing to see hazards , cycles, motorbikes, pedestrians and fail to notice the speed of other road users .
Many with good vision are totally unaware of their surroundings and fail to absorb any of the information that is all around them .
So many are thinking of everything else going on in life apart from what is happening in front of them .
If your not looking for it you won't see it .
Many are also unable to read an emerging situation so then it becomes to late to react in the appropriate manner.
I cycle 100 miles a week and always wear brightly coloured top, have lights and adhere to traffic rules.
I don't want to get hit and therefore do all i can to help other road users see me.
I cannot defend fellow cyclists when i see them wearing all black, no lights, cycling thorugh red lights and general cockish behaviour.
I don't want to get hit and therefore do all i can to help other road users see me.
I cannot defend fellow cyclists when i see them wearing all black, no lights, cycling thorugh red lights and general cockish behaviour.
Edited by TheDrownedApe on Friday 2nd July 08:24
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