Received a PCN after car sold
Discussion
Morning all,
I have received a congestion charge PCN following the sale of my mini to a chap in London who went on to rack up a load of fines. I have successfully challenged them all due to having DVLA records that I’m no longer the registered keeper, but the problematic one has been the congestion charge which they continue to pursue and for which a tribunal date has been set. The reason for which is that the DVLA took over a month to update their records from when the V5C was sent off advising them of a new keeper, so according to the DVLA and TfL I was the registered keeper and liable for any PCN’s until they eventually updated their records.
26th March - Car sold and taken - the signed and dated V5C was sent to DVLA - bank transfer received from buyer
16th April - Date of fine / offence in London
28th April - Date that the DVLA sent out their acknowledgment slip and updated their records.
I have no other record of sale such as a receipt, only the bank transfer I received which they are not accepting as evidence. Everything was sent to the DVLA on the V5C and I never took a copy. I also only have the buyers name this many weeks later and the DVLA have been most unhelpful.
I’m wondering, has anyone experienced something similar and what was the outcome? Am I just better off paying the £80 fine or should I continue to challenge the PCN as a matter of principle? Surely they have to prove I am guilty beyond doubt or is the onus on me to prove I’m innocent in this matter? Which I probably can’t do .
I have received a congestion charge PCN following the sale of my mini to a chap in London who went on to rack up a load of fines. I have successfully challenged them all due to having DVLA records that I’m no longer the registered keeper, but the problematic one has been the congestion charge which they continue to pursue and for which a tribunal date has been set. The reason for which is that the DVLA took over a month to update their records from when the V5C was sent off advising them of a new keeper, so according to the DVLA and TfL I was the registered keeper and liable for any PCN’s until they eventually updated their records.
26th March - Car sold and taken - the signed and dated V5C was sent to DVLA - bank transfer received from buyer
16th April - Date of fine / offence in London
28th April - Date that the DVLA sent out their acknowledgment slip and updated their records.
I have no other record of sale such as a receipt, only the bank transfer I received which they are not accepting as evidence. Everything was sent to the DVLA on the V5C and I never took a copy. I also only have the buyers name this many weeks later and the DVLA have been most unhelpful.
I’m wondering, has anyone experienced something similar and what was the outcome? Am I just better off paying the £80 fine or should I continue to challenge the PCN as a matter of principle? Surely they have to prove I am guilty beyond doubt or is the onus on me to prove I’m innocent in this matter? Which I probably can’t do .
I'd refer them to DVLA statement at https://www.gov.uk/guidance/dvla-coronavirus-covid... about extended processing times but it's unclear exactly what the situation was in March as it's been updated since then.
The TFL page also says they will use their discretion so I would point this out to them.
The TFL page also says they will use their discretion so I would point this out to them.
NGee said:
I do feel for the OP and unfortunately I can't offer any legal advice.
However the OP's post should act as a stark reminder to anyone buying or selling a car - notify DVLA online the minute the deal is done.
And keep a copy of everything you send off, I always scan all paperwork into a car docs fileHowever the OP's post should act as a stark reminder to anyone buying or selling a car - notify DVLA online the minute the deal is done.
When my car was cloned I considered paying the 2.50 dart charge to stop them chasing but consider this, if you pay the fine you are accepting you owned the car and were driving it. You could be liable for much more.
As mine was clearly for illicit purposes the car could have been used in a robbery for all I knew and I would have been admitting to driving at that time.
As mine was clearly for illicit purposes the car could have been used in a robbery for all I knew and I would have been admitting to driving at that time.
Ardennes92 said:
NGee said:
I do feel for the OP and unfortunately I can't offer any legal advice.
However the OP's post should act as a stark reminder to anyone buying or selling a car - notify DVLA online the minute the deal is done.
And keep a copy of everything you send off, I always scan all paperwork into a car docs fileHowever the OP's post should act as a stark reminder to anyone buying or selling a car - notify DVLA online the minute the deal is done.
We have been dealing with 30-40 cases of this per week over the last year or so due to DVLA delays. We have to send sales invoice, bank payment references and copy V5 details to deflect the to the new keeper, although most of ours end up in Trade which makes things a little different to a straight forward retail sale.
joropug said:
When my car was cloned I considered paying the 2.50 dart charge to stop them chasing but consider this, if you pay the fine you are accepting you owned the car and were driving it. You could be liable for much more.
As mine was clearly for illicit purposes the car could have been used in a robbery for all I knew and I would have been admitting to driving at that time.
Well said.As mine was clearly for illicit purposes the car could have been used in a robbery for all I knew and I would have been admitting to driving at that time.
Don’t pay it, you did nothing wrong.
DVLA has adjusted the online change of keeper form so that it works properly even on older phones like an iphone 7 - i've done them whilst standing with the person who purchased the car, it's instant and both parties can receive a confirmation email.
I sold a car yesterday, did the online form this morning - again immediate confirmation back on email. Unless you have no access to the DVLA site, I can't see why anyone would post the log book back especially with the well advertised recent delays.
Not slating anyone who does use the post option, the online change avoids any issues like the OP has sadly had.
I sold a car yesterday, did the online form this morning - again immediate confirmation back on email. Unless you have no access to the DVLA site, I can't see why anyone would post the log book back especially with the well advertised recent delays.
Not slating anyone who does use the post option, the online change avoids any issues like the OP has sadly had.
Traded a car in a month or so ago and dealer said they'd do all the paperwork on trade-in. I don't change cars often so didn't do anything then checked online and realised I should notify DVLA of the sale (good job I took photo of V5). Got instant response from DVLA and tax refund after a couple of days.
I just hope no-one robbed a bank in June with it (although I did notify date of transfer as 4 weeks prior).
I just hope no-one robbed a bank in June with it (although I did notify date of transfer as 4 weeks prior).
sortedcossie said:
DVLA has adjusted the online change of keeper form so that it works properly even on older phones like an iphone 7 - i've done them whilst standing with the person who purchased the car, it's instant and both parties can receive a confirmation email.
I sold a car yesterday, did the online form this morning - again immediate confirmation back on email. Unless you have no access to the DVLA site, I can't see why anyone would post the log book back especially with the well advertised recent delays.
Not slating anyone who does use the post option, the online change avoids any issues like the OP has sadly had.
I sold a bike last weekend. I processed it before the buyer left. No idea why the OP would use the postal method given the myriad stories on here and in the press about DVLA delays.I sold a car yesterday, did the online form this morning - again immediate confirmation back on email. Unless you have no access to the DVLA site, I can't see why anyone would post the log book back especially with the well advertised recent delays.
Not slating anyone who does use the post option, the online change avoids any issues like the OP has sadly had.
I sold a car in June 2020 and completely forgot to tell the DVLA...
September had several PCN's from London (a long way from me)
Wrote to the DVLA at a specific postal address for such situations (PCN's) not forgetting and fessed up and said sorry.
Took them a few months, however sorted it out. In the meantime contacted all the PCN people with new keepers details, they cancelled them.
https://www.gov.uk/driving-fines-letters-you-dont-... this is where I wrote to, probably the same address, I'll never know because I was too stupid to send the slip in the first place!
September had several PCN's from London (a long way from me)
Wrote to the DVLA at a specific postal address for such situations (PCN's) not forgetting and fessed up and said sorry.
Took them a few months, however sorted it out. In the meantime contacted all the PCN people with new keepers details, they cancelled them.
https://www.gov.uk/driving-fines-letters-you-dont-... this is where I wrote to, probably the same address, I'll never know because I was too stupid to send the slip in the first place!
The DVLA online transfer doesn't work after 7pm - Ridiculous, we had to use the paper method but we did do a receipt with time and date etc which syncs with the transfer. Haven't had the confirmation letter from DVLA yet so not sure how long it takes.
Wasn't sure if we could do it the next day and backdate it.
Wasn't sure if we could do it the next day and backdate it.
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