Winchester School Coach Crash

[Saleen836]

I couldn't find the thread on this but the driver has been found guilty and sent to prison for 3 years!
https://www.hampshirelive.news/news/winchester-bus...

[Gareth79]

Interesting, it doesn't mention if he was used to driving single-deckers, which is often behind crashes like this, where the driver never really needs to worry about the height.

This is a little concerning:

article said:

"Neil Fitzgibbon told the court that Walker has suffered from special educational needs.

An assessment from a professional in the field determined that the defendant suffers with confusion, struggles to understand left from right and needs to rehearse new routes several times.

He also is slow at processing changes and cannot quickly adapt.

What's also interesting is that it was at a speed of only 10mph:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/school-bus-d...

Edited by Gareth79 on Friday 9th July 22:19

[greygoose]

Gareth79 said:

Interesting, it doesn't mention if he was used to driving single-deckers, which is often behind crashes like this, where the driver never really needs to worry about the height.

This is a little concerning:

article said:

"Neil Fitzgibbon told the court that Walker has suffered from special educational needs.

An assessment from a professional in the field determined that the defendant suffers with confusion, struggles to understand left from right and needs to rehearse new routes several times.

He also is slow at processing changes and cannot quickly adapt.

To be fair that covers many posters in NP&E……

[milkround]

Three years for making a mistake at work...

There was nothing malicious in it. And they have locked him up for 3 years. What an absolute sham. Shame on the judge for having such little understanding and compassion. Perhaps if he were jailed if he made a mistake at work - he might show more humility. Remembering when he makes a mistake people can end up in prison.

If the bloke appeals and wants to crowdfund some cash I'd put in some money.

[Evanivitch]

milkround said:

Three years for making a mistake at work...

There was nothing malicious in it. And they have locked him up for 3 years. What an absolute sham. Shame on the judge for having such little understanding and compassion. Perhaps if he were jailed if he made a mistake at work - he might show more humility. Remembering when he makes a mistake people can end up in prison.

If the bloke appeals and wants to crowdfund some cash I'd put in some money.

Just about everyone can face prison for a mistake at work, it's not exclusive to bus drivers. The fact this incident caused life changing injuries to the victims is certainly a factor.

Swansea bus driver did similar, got 2.5 years. Victim had ventilator switched off once her partner was able to be at the bedside.

https://www.itv.com/news/wales/2021-01-22/swansea-...

[Johnnytheboy]

I'm still not convinced people should be punished for outcomes rather than intent.

[LaurasOtherHalf]

Anyone else read those victim impact statements and the voice in their heads made it sound “compo sad face”?

Sorry, I’m probably going to hell but each one sounded like it was a rehearsed speech from a NWNF lawyer for maximum £££££

[Ari]

Johnnytheboy said:

I'm still not convinced people should be punished for outcomes rather than intent.

I've said this for a long time. Take this example. Had there been no one on the upper deck, the driver would be sat at home now with his feet up watching TV.

[Evanivitch]

Ari said:

Johnnytheboy said:

I'm still not convinced people should be punished for outcomes rather than intent.

I've said this for a long time. Take this example. Had there been no one on the upper deck, the driver would be sat at home now with his feet up watching TV.

And that's justice?

[milkround]

Evanivitch said:

And that's justice?

If you had an accident driving your car... Would you think you should be sent to prison?

Now imagine if the roads - were not designed for cars. And you had an accident - would you still think you should be sent to prison?

[Ari]

Evanivitch said:

Ari said:

Johnnytheboy said:

I'm still not convinced people should be punished for outcomes rather than intent.

I've said this for a long time. Take this example. Had there been no one on the upper deck, the driver would be sat at home now with his feet up watching TV.

And that's justice?

No, it's not. I'm agreeing with the other chap.

At the other extreme, steal a car, get chased by the police at 100mph through a town centre, miraculously don't harm anyone and you won't be going to jail.

It's all wrong.

[Kawasicki]

I‘m confused, the speed of impact was estimated at 10mph. Yet the prosecutor said “ The vehicle was being driven at a speed that was inappropriate. “

Did he mean crashing at above zero is inappropriate?

[dudleybloke]

Kawasicki said:

I‘m confused, the speed of impact was estimated at 10mph. Yet the prosecutor said “ The vehicle was being driven at a speed that was inappropriate. “

Did he mean crashing at above zero is inappropriate?

The prosecutor gets stuck behind slow buses a lot perhaps.

[Digger]

Is this about lawyers getting paid?

/cynical

[Evanivitch]

Digger said:

Is this about lawyers getting paid?

/cynical

It's a criminal prosecution for an incident that left victims with life-long impacts.

And as demonstrated in Swansea, could have been a fatal incident.

[Derek Smith]

Ari said:

Johnnytheboy said:

I'm still not convinced people should be punished for outcomes rather than intent.

I've said this for a long time. Take this example. Had there been no one on the upper deck, the driver would be sat at home now with his feet up watching TV.

Quite apart from any argument of intent over outcome, imprisonment serves no purpose in this scenario. It's expensive, it tends to make people dependent, there’s no change for the better in the majority of cases – sometimes the exact opposite, and there’s often, as in this case, little conceivable deterrent effect.

There are alternatives, ones which are still punishment but can change behaviour, are unlikely to have a negative effect on the person’s behaviour, and mostly tend to increase the likelihood of the person becoming a useful member of society.

There are times when a substantial period of custody can be the only sensible punishment, but it is doled out without discretion, mainly because of the lack of alternative.

If what the court were told about this guy’s problems are true, then Winchester School should be encouraged to look to their recruitment procedures.

[Alucidnation]

milkround said:

Evanivitch said:

And that's justice?

If you had an accident driving your car... Would you think you should be sent to prison?

Where's the 10PS thread when you need it?

[bitchstewie]

3 years does sound a little harsh but I have no idea what would be right.

No winners sometimes.

[Bill]

bhstewie said:

3 years does sound a little harsh but I have no idea what would be right.

No winners sometimes.

Done for causing serious injury by dangerous driving, Google suggests the maximum is 5 years. I can't see the point of a custodial sentence, but OTOH noncustodial seems a bit inadequate.

[this is my username]

If it was an aviation accident then the emphasis wouldn’t be on the driver (pilot), the focus would be on how the system allowed the bus to be in that location in the first place, why we have a road system where bridges are too low for road-legal vehicles to pass underneath, and why a driver with the reported level of intellectual challenges was put in the driving seat of a vehicle where any of those things might be an issue. The concept that the driver was liable “because there was a sign” would be considered to be ridiculous.