Lithium Ion Batteries - flat?
Discussion
My bike (like lots of other people's I guess) tends to spend a lot of time sat doing not much. In the past, despite having an optimiser on it, this has caused problems with standard batteries. Earlier this year I bought a Lithium ion lightweight battery, precisely because they are supposed to keep their charge, and in my cordless tools you can leave them for months, and they will still have charge. Anyway, in a matter of weeks the bike won't start, because it appears the battery is flat! 
Cue nice weather and no bike to ride.
So... is it likely that something is draining the battery while the bike is in the shed? Only thing which could do is the Honda HISS system, as everything else on the bike is cold/dark/shutdown. Ignition is definitely not left on. Or do LiIon batteries need a trickle charger on them?
Can I jump it in the normal way, with a normal 12V charger? Hopefully then the alternator can charge the battery.
All a bit frustrating, as I thought they were designed to hold charge over weeks or months.
Cue nice weather and no bike to ride. So... is it likely that something is draining the battery while the bike is in the shed? Only thing which could do is the Honda HISS system, as everything else on the bike is cold/dark/shutdown. Ignition is definitely not left on. Or do LiIon batteries need a trickle charger on them?
Can I jump it in the normal way, with a normal 12V charger? Hopefully then the alternator can charge the battery.
All a bit frustrating, as I thought they were designed to hold charge over weeks or months.
Cylon2007 said:
How long has the bike been stood unused? Have you checked that he charging system on your bike is OK for Lion Batteries? You will need a different charger as well.
Sounds like a drain somewhere.
Battery went flat within a few weeks, maybe. 2 months at most. No idea about the bike's charging system.... Just assumed it would be okay tbh. Bike is 20 years old so won't have been designed with Li battery in mind! Sounds like a drain somewhere.
They get down to a certain voltage, then shut down with Under Voltage Protection. Just plugging a lithium charger in won't work unless the charger makes the battery 'open the door' to a charge. Good chargers like the lithium CTEK have a process to open this UVP door, and allow charging.
Old school car battery charger set to 12v 2 amp. You don't want one that is a smart charger and tries to test and deal with sulphation as that sticks much too high a charge voltage in.
Trouble is if you've let it get too low, ie cells< 2.5v it gets tricky. If you don't get any joy with just hooking up a normal 12 v charger with low amp setting, some folks reckon that sticking on jump cables from a decently charged conventional 2v battery will kick things off sufficiently that the charger can then take over. You have to be careful not to overcharge.
Trouble is if you've let it get too low, ie cells< 2.5v it gets tricky. If you don't get any joy with just hooking up a normal 12 v charger with low amp setting, some folks reckon that sticking on jump cables from a decently charged conventional 2v battery will kick things off sufficiently that the charger can then take over. You have to be careful not to overcharge.
I bought a Shido for my 2015 R1 and came out one day to find it completely flat. I assumed I'd left the side lights on but I don't know if that's the case, it's not something I've ever done before. My lithium trickle charger (which I'd forgotten to plug in) wouldn't revive it because the voltage was so low it didn't recognise there being a battery present at all. Ten minutes on a regular optimate put enough charge in it for the lithium charger to recognise it when I swapped them over so that's a tip for reviving it.
Modern bikes will have parasitic drain for security stuff and whatever other electronics they keep alive. Lithium batteries sometimes do have an under-voltage protection system built it which will isolate the battery itself when it gets down to a pre-set voltage. A smart lead acid battery charger won't do anything as they require some voltage to know that there's a battery attached - but your "flat" lithium battery is actually not connected to its terminals due to the battery protection circuitry.
If it has such protection there'll be some way to reset it so the first thing I'd do is look at the manufacturers website to see how it is to be reset. I have an Earth-X and it could be reset by hooking it up to another battery. I ended up getting a c-tek lithium battery charger. That has the ability to reset those protection circuits.
They will hold charge for months and months, provided there's not something discharging it. I put a c-tek comfort indicator on so I can see if it's getting down enough where the protection circuit might kick in. When it goes into orange I put the charger on until it's fully charged, then remove the charger. A mate put an isolation switch on one of his bikes with a lithium battery and never had a problem with the battery going flat. If you see the bike from day to day like I do, the comfort indicator way works well.
If it has such protection there'll be some way to reset it so the first thing I'd do is look at the manufacturers website to see how it is to be reset. I have an Earth-X and it could be reset by hooking it up to another battery. I ended up getting a c-tek lithium battery charger. That has the ability to reset those protection circuits.
They will hold charge for months and months, provided there's not something discharging it. I put a c-tek comfort indicator on so I can see if it's getting down enough where the protection circuit might kick in. When it goes into orange I put the charger on until it's fully charged, then remove the charger. A mate put an isolation switch on one of his bikes with a lithium battery and never had a problem with the battery going flat. If you see the bike from day to day like I do, the comfort indicator way works well.
Edited by rodericb on Saturday 10th July 14:33
rodericb said:
. A mate put an isolation switch on one of his bikes with a lithium battery and never had a problem with the battery going flat.
This maybe the best idea. At the moment the bike is secure and safe without any additional protection. Will have a look at how to revive it, hopefully as you say it's just disconnected itself and needs a little kick.
i went for the antigravity battery with the auto undervoltage cut-off. when activated, you press a button on the battery and it should have enough juice left for a start.
its been on the bike over a year now and never needed a charge. longest its been between starts is 3-4mths, no issue each time. pretty glad of that as the battery is under the tank! antigravity keep threatening to bring out a remote fob for the reset button but i live in hope.
its been on the bike over a year now and never needed a charge. longest its been between starts is 3-4mths, no issue each time. pretty glad of that as the battery is under the tank! antigravity keep threatening to bring out a remote fob for the reset button but i live in hope.
R1 Dave said:
I bought a Shido for my 2015 R1 and came out one day to find it completely flat. I assumed I'd left the side lights on but I don't know if that's the case, it's not something I've ever done before. My lithium trickle charger (which I'd forgotten to plug in) wouldn't revive it because the voltage was so low it didn't recognise there being a battery present at all. Ten minutes on a regular optimate put enough charge in it for the lithium charger to recognise it when I swapped them over so that's a tip for reviving it.
Ah this is a useful post - I’ve a 20-7 R1 and as you will know from your now departed R1 Dave, the battery is something out of a moped. It’s ridiculous. Despite living on a proper trickle charger/conditioner it let me down yesterday with a totally dead battery. Luckily, due to the comedy size and fact they are know to fail I keep a new spare ready.
However I’m sick of this, and the way they always sound like they’re not going to crank so was looking at the Shidos on the Tanya site.
Do they crank a lot better? Would you recommend it? I’m just after a battery that will crank super strong and last more than a year.
shirt said:
i went for the antigravity battery with the auto undervoltage cut-off. when activated, you press a button on the battery and it should have enough juice left for a start.
its been on the bike over a year now and never needed a charge. longest its been between starts is 3-4mths, no issue each time. pretty glad of that as the battery is under the tank! antigravity keep threatening to bring out a remote fob for the reset button but i live in hope.
Ooh that's clever, I'd get one but getting to the battery on mine means tank and fairing panels off so a right faff!its been on the bike over a year now and never needed a charge. longest its been between starts is 3-4mths, no issue each time. pretty glad of that as the battery is under the tank! antigravity keep threatening to bring out a remote fob for the reset button but i live in hope.
Edited by Krikkit on Saturday 10th July 21:00
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