So what's the deal with diesels?
Discussion
I think I've been asleep too long and missed something important...
A couple of years ago, diesels were the worst thing on earth. All the motoring journos hated them with a fury, mostly because of the emissions of PM10 particulates which are clogging up our lungs. Fair enough, I can understand that.
But now, everything has changed. What's all that about? Everyone seems to love them, but I'm still reaching for the "recirc" button (and headlights, sometimes) if I'm behind an oil-burner when the limit increases.
So, is it down to the intoxicating mid-range torque that has seduced everyone to the dark side? Do they all run with vacuum cleaner bags over the exhaust? Are the newer common rail/direct injection things really that much of an improvement in PM10 emissions?
Or is it as simple as the new CO2 taxes on company cars favouring the diesel and so no-one cares as long as they're saving a few quid?
A couple of years ago, diesels were the worst thing on earth. All the motoring journos hated them with a fury, mostly because of the emissions of PM10 particulates which are clogging up our lungs. Fair enough, I can understand that.
But now, everything has changed. What's all that about? Everyone seems to love them, but I'm still reaching for the "recirc" button (and headlights, sometimes) if I'm behind an oil-burner when the limit increases.
So, is it down to the intoxicating mid-range torque that has seduced everyone to the dark side? Do they all run with vacuum cleaner bags over the exhaust? Are the newer common rail/direct injection things really that much of an improvement in PM10 emissions?
Or is it as simple as the new CO2 taxes on company cars favouring the diesel and so no-one cares as long as they're saving a few quid?
Tax's and the power they are now producing, you also get the great miles to the gallon.
I miss my Diesel BMW, when I have saved up again I will get another one from work.
I had a 525 TDI with the bipass chip, this gave it 175 BHP and 0-60 in 9 secs .. which I though was great for a car that did 40+ MPG.
The 3 litre ones are producing 220 BHP with bipass and loads of torque.
Gold do that GTD or is it a GTI-D that is supposed to be very impressive.
>> Edited by cleg on Friday 11th October 22:06
I miss my Diesel BMW, when I have saved up again I will get another one from work.
I had a 525 TDI with the bipass chip, this gave it 175 BHP and 0-60 in 9 secs .. which I though was great for a car that did 40+ MPG.
The 3 litre ones are producing 220 BHP with bipass and loads of torque.
Gold do that GTD or is it a GTI-D that is supposed to be very impressive.
>> Edited by cleg on Friday 11th October 22:06
Yeah but they're still smokey tractors.
Glasgow has masses of bus lanes so that in some parts of the city its really only busses on the roads. In these parts of the city the air quality is piss poor. And its entirely down to diesel busses and taxis.
Also glasgow has some of the worst air quality of any city in the UK. Its not the (petrol) cars that are to blame.
To be honest the world has gone mad (well the uk has anyway) all people seem to be looking at is the carbon dioxide emissions per mile. Diesels are quite impressive in this respect but the PM10 emissions are truely awful. But there is no tax incentive to run clean diesels (AFAIK). Why on earth not? a little bit of CO2 never hurt anyone. Its not toxic indeed all humans breath it out all the time. What should we do ban breathing?? Particulate emmissions on teh other had are the main culprit in asthma attacks etc etc.
Anyway if you hadn't figured it out I hate diesels with a passion. Mainly due to the fact that as a cyclist you get to breath loads of the smoke. I swear you can feel it destroy your lungs.
As for MPG figures well if petrol wasn't taxed at 500% then people wouldn't be falling over themselves to buy oil burners. Just look at the Americans with their cheap petrol practially no one runs diesel cars.
Most of all though I blame the govenment for their usual short sighted policy making. Sure, tax cars on their CO2 output and make diesels attractive. But then what do you do about falling air quality levels in all our big cities? Like I said CO2 is non toxic but smoke is harmfull.
The single biggest thing the government could do to improve inner city air quality is to get the bus companies to run their busses on CNG (compressed natural gas) or LPG. Make it tax free for busses and the bus companies will be falling over themselves to buy new LPG/CNG busses.
Anyway rant over
Andy
PS did I mention I Hate diesels?
Glasgow has masses of bus lanes so that in some parts of the city its really only busses on the roads. In these parts of the city the air quality is piss poor. And its entirely down to diesel busses and taxis.
Also glasgow has some of the worst air quality of any city in the UK. Its not the (petrol) cars that are to blame.
To be honest the world has gone mad (well the uk has anyway) all people seem to be looking at is the carbon dioxide emissions per mile. Diesels are quite impressive in this respect but the PM10 emissions are truely awful. But there is no tax incentive to run clean diesels (AFAIK). Why on earth not? a little bit of CO2 never hurt anyone. Its not toxic indeed all humans breath it out all the time. What should we do ban breathing?? Particulate emmissions on teh other had are the main culprit in asthma attacks etc etc.
Anyway if you hadn't figured it out I hate diesels with a passion. Mainly due to the fact that as a cyclist you get to breath loads of the smoke. I swear you can feel it destroy your lungs.
As for MPG figures well if petrol wasn't taxed at 500% then people wouldn't be falling over themselves to buy oil burners. Just look at the Americans with their cheap petrol practially no one runs diesel cars.
Most of all though I blame the govenment for their usual short sighted policy making. Sure, tax cars on their CO2 output and make diesels attractive. But then what do you do about falling air quality levels in all our big cities? Like I said CO2 is non toxic but smoke is harmfull.
The single biggest thing the government could do to improve inner city air quality is to get the bus companies to run their busses on CNG (compressed natural gas) or LPG. Make it tax free for busses and the bus companies will be falling over themselves to buy new LPG/CNG busses.
Anyway rant over
Andy
PS did I mention I Hate diesels?
If nobody else is going to post in support of oil burners, then I suppose it had better be me !!
I first "went diesel" ten years ago, putting a Perkins 4.182 in a 1973 Rover P5B Coupe (the V8 was fcuked, you understand) and caused a good deal of "amusement" in the P5 Owners Club.
What with the diesel engine and 5 speed manual box from a SD1 (which was installed after the Borg Warner box died in 1995), I ended up with car doing 38 to the gallon on diesel compared to the 18 to the gallon of 5-star which was the intention of its designers.
Attached to the BW autobox it wasn't all that much fun, with the engine being red-lined at 3600 revs, which meant 74mph unless you were going downhill with the wind behind you. When the manual box was installed, with the fifth gear ratio below direct drive, that was another matter altogether (theoretical maximum 96 - probably quite enough given the "cart spring" suspension on the back end!! Of course, in common with everybody reading this, the merest thought of actually driving at such a speed did not even remotely enter my head
) Mind you, if I'd have got caught doing that speed (if I did it, which I'm not letting on!) I would've argued I should have got a medal for getting such a speed out of a 25-year-old car, not a f
g ticket ...
As I often said to my critics at the time: "Lets fill up, and go off up the M5 and M6 - and see who has to stop first ...
The conversion cost me around £5k in total and saved me over £12k in fuel bills until the car was finally withdrawn from service in 1999, after doing 186,000 miles with that engine, when about 2 grand's worth of welding and body repairs was required for an MOT! (A bloke in Poole bought the car for restoration - I wonder if he succeeded - does anybody know? - there aren't many diesel engined Rover P5s about!!)
As I said above, that engine did 186,000 miles in 7 years and all I needed to do to it was change the oil and filters - admittedly the water pump was on its way out when I sold it but, apart from that, everything was still in good working order. Has anybody got a petrol engine that can match that servicing record ??
Subsequently I have been running around in diesel Mercs - two 123 series and one 124. Economy and ease of maintenance means it is unlikely I'd go back to a petrol engined car by choice (although a 1973 Rover P6 is sitting on my drive - converted for unleaded not diesel!).
As regards emissions, well, I'm sitting in front of the exhaust, ain't I ??!! Seriously, though, perhaps I'm immune - back in the 70s I spent 7 years working for British Rail in a motive power depot and you haven't smelt diesel till you work in one of those places!
As an aside, I am also quite a frequent cyclist and I can't say that diesel exhausts cause me any problem - come to that, neither (so far) do the fags !!!
>> Edited by rs1952 on Sunday 13th October 21:22
>> Edited by rs1952 on Sunday 13th October 21:28
I first "went diesel" ten years ago, putting a Perkins 4.182 in a 1973 Rover P5B Coupe (the V8 was fcuked, you understand) and caused a good deal of "amusement" in the P5 Owners Club.
What with the diesel engine and 5 speed manual box from a SD1 (which was installed after the Borg Warner box died in 1995), I ended up with car doing 38 to the gallon on diesel compared to the 18 to the gallon of 5-star which was the intention of its designers.
Attached to the BW autobox it wasn't all that much fun, with the engine being red-lined at 3600 revs, which meant 74mph unless you were going downhill with the wind behind you. When the manual box was installed, with the fifth gear ratio below direct drive, that was another matter altogether (theoretical maximum 96 - probably quite enough given the "cart spring" suspension on the back end!! Of course, in common with everybody reading this, the merest thought of actually driving at such a speed did not even remotely enter my head
) Mind you, if I'd have got caught doing that speed (if I did it, which I'm not letting on!) I would've argued I should have got a medal for getting such a speed out of a 25-year-old car, not a fg ticket ... As I often said to my critics at the time: "Lets fill up, and go off up the M5 and M6 - and see who has to stop first ...
The conversion cost me around £5k in total and saved me over £12k in fuel bills until the car was finally withdrawn from service in 1999, after doing 186,000 miles with that engine, when about 2 grand's worth of welding and body repairs was required for an MOT! (A bloke in Poole bought the car for restoration - I wonder if he succeeded - does anybody know? - there aren't many diesel engined Rover P5s about!!)
As I said above, that engine did 186,000 miles in 7 years and all I needed to do to it was change the oil and filters - admittedly the water pump was on its way out when I sold it but, apart from that, everything was still in good working order. Has anybody got a petrol engine that can match that servicing record ??
Subsequently I have been running around in diesel Mercs - two 123 series and one 124. Economy and ease of maintenance means it is unlikely I'd go back to a petrol engined car by choice (although a 1973 Rover P6 is sitting on my drive - converted for unleaded not diesel!).
As regards emissions, well, I'm sitting in front of the exhaust, ain't I ??!! Seriously, though, perhaps I'm immune - back in the 70s I spent 7 years working for British Rail in a motive power depot and you haven't smelt diesel till you work in one of those places!
As an aside, I am also quite a frequent cyclist and I can't say that diesel exhausts cause me any problem - come to that, neither (so far) do the fags !!!
>> Edited by rs1952 on Sunday 13th October 21:22
>> Edited by rs1952 on Sunday 13th October 21:28
my diesel 307 gets around 50mpg, although is sluggish compared to a sports car.
The money I save with the diesel, runs my bike for 400 adrenalin soaked miles, which is fast compared to a sports car.
So, win so, lose some. But on the M25 everyday, a 2 litre TDi/HDi makes perfect sense.
The money I save with the diesel, runs my bike for 400 adrenalin soaked miles, which is fast compared to a sports car.
So, win so, lose some. But on the M25 everyday, a 2 litre TDi/HDi makes perfect sense.
UK 2005 and the phenominal Pistonheads party has only been in power for 3 weeks Prime Minister Carzee is rocketing up the opinion polls, the chancellor Petrol Ted has already fired half the treasury. Newly created minister for youth Mungo has reputedy shagged all the women in Westminster under age 25 and was indeed seen walking like a duck along Downing street yesterday. Contravercial minister for transport, Nonegreen has promised to further reduce the price of petrol from 10p/litre by introducing subsidies once diesel is phased out next year. Diesel cars are reportedly changeing hands for as little as 50p. 
Are you sure you really want one?
Are you sure you really want one?
My 307 110 Hdi gets about 40-45 mpg yet after 10000 miles has realy loosened up to be brisk , quiet , smooth and so flexible and easy going , and I've never seen so much as a wisp of smoke out of it , it also has a particulate filter to soak up the lumps ....still love to have a TVR though ....I'm not completely hooked
Well, I like em .....
Loadsa miles means I NEED economy and there's nothing that'll come close to giving me the mix of "reasonable" performance and 40mpg that I get from the 3l, VGT, intercooled, multi-injector Diseasal. But it needs to be chipped - the pick up on non-chipped motors is dire, to say the least.
Having said that, if I could afford to run a bigengined petrol instead, I would ...... more of a rev range, better pick-up, faster respsonse. Pays yer manoey, takes yer choice.
Loadsa miles means I NEED economy and there's nothing that'll come close to giving me the mix of "reasonable" performance and 40mpg that I get from the 3l, VGT, intercooled, multi-injector Diseasal. But it needs to be chipped - the pick up on non-chipped motors is dire, to say the least.
Having said that, if I could afford to run a bigengined petrol instead, I would ...... more of a rev range, better pick-up, faster respsonse. Pays yer manoey, takes yer choice.
My Golf TDi 130 returns 50 MPG Cruising at 80-90mph, which if you ask me is pretty damn good.
Of course, in main-land Europe, they all go mad for diesels, because it generally costs about 50p a litre, whereas petrol costs about 60-65p.
Thats why there was a bloody 3 month wait on my Golf!
As others have stated, diesels make a perfect 2nd car (although the Golf is my only car at the moment)
Of course, in main-land Europe, they all go mad for diesels, because it generally costs about 50p a litre, whereas petrol costs about 60-65p.
Thats why there was a bloody 3 month wait on my Golf!
As others have stated, diesels make a perfect 2nd car (although the Golf is my only car at the moment)
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