Legality's of hire & reward or not.
Discussion
I've started an alternative career in the tv & film industry, bits & pieces here & there some of which is driving hired vans around with lighting & other equipment from studios to locations etc.
Some of the jobs that come up say it may involve ferrying crew & even cast around as well in minibuses, some ask you to use your own suitable vehicle (I have business use on my car).
Comments from others on the job adverts say it is illegal as part of the job to carry people around unless you have something like a taxi licence for hire or reward.
Is this so?
20+ years ago I did a temporary job between jobs of an executive mini cab driver, airport runs etc. & didn't have any special licence for that, I know taxis are different, have rules changed now? as in a way that is similar to the tv/film roles being offered?
Some of the jobs that come up say it may involve ferrying crew & even cast around as well in minibuses, some ask you to use your own suitable vehicle (I have business use on my car).
Comments from others on the job adverts say it is illegal as part of the job to carry people around unless you have something like a taxi licence for hire or reward.
Is this so?
20+ years ago I did a temporary job between jobs of an executive mini cab driver, airport runs etc. & didn't have any special licence for that, I know taxis are different, have rules changed now? as in a way that is similar to the tv/film roles being offered?
I think that a lot will depend on when you passed your driving test. If it was long enough ago you will have class D1 on your licence which allows you to drive minibuses up to 16 seats. If you passed your test more recently you need to pass an additional test for minibus entitlement,
"Hire or Reward" doesn't come into it as you are driving the minibus as part of your job and aren't charging the passengers for the ride.
Have you told your insurer that you are doing this work? They tend not to like people in the entertainment business so you could find that either they want more money from you or they might refuse to cover you. Also although you might have business cover for your main job they might not be keen to extend this to your film/tv work.
"Hire or Reward" doesn't come into it as you are driving the minibus as part of your job and aren't charging the passengers for the ride.
Have you told your insurer that you are doing this work? They tend not to like people in the entertainment business so you could find that either they want more money from you or they might refuse to cover you. Also although you might have business cover for your main job they might not be keen to extend this to your film/tv work.
douglasb said:
"Hire or Reward" doesn't come into it as you are driving the minibus as part of your job and aren't charging the passengers for the ride.
Reward doesn't necessarily have to mean payment by the people he's transporting. If he's being paid to transport them, and obviously he is, then he is being rewarded for it.It might fall under the purview of class 1 cover if it is not an instrinsic part of the job, but it sounds like it might be - e.g. you're not taking clients to lunch adhoc or something.
Obviously your insurers are the ones to speak to for clarification, but if they consider it hire & reward they might decide that it's not possible with your existing (presumably) "personal insurance" cover.
My thinking was that there were really several points to the original question.
1 - Does the OP's licence cover driving a minibus? It does if he has D1 cover and this covers up to 16 seats but not for Hire or Reward which DVLA define as "not for profit". I think that the intention of this is "not a taxi" but would cover driving a minibus as part of a job.
2 - Does the employer's insurance cover this? If the employer is providing the minibus I would expect them to insure it but this should be checked.
3 - If the OP uses his own vehicle to carry stars as part of this work is he covered? Probably not as his business cover will only be for his primary (declared) business.
4 - Has he invalidated his insurance by taking on this job and not telling the insurers even if he is taking the family out for a Sunday drive? Very probably.
1 - Does the OP's licence cover driving a minibus? It does if he has D1 cover and this covers up to 16 seats but not for Hire or Reward which DVLA define as "not for profit". I think that the intention of this is "not a taxi" but would cover driving a minibus as part of a job.
2 - Does the employer's insurance cover this? If the employer is providing the minibus I would expect them to insure it but this should be checked.
3 - If the OP uses his own vehicle to carry stars as part of this work is he covered? Probably not as his business cover will only be for his primary (declared) business.
4 - Has he invalidated his insurance by taking on this job and not telling the insurers even if he is taking the family out for a Sunday drive? Very probably.
douglasb said:
My thinking was that there were really several points to the original question.
1 - Does the OP's licence cover driving a minibus? It does if he has D1 cover and this covers up to 16 seats but not for Hire or Reward which DVLA define as "not for profit". I think that the intention of this is "not a taxi" but would cover driving a minibus as part of a job.
2 - Does the employer's insurance cover this? If the employer is providing the minibus I would expect them to insure it but this should be checked.
3 - If the OP uses his own vehicle to carry stars as part of this work is he covered? Probably not as his business cover will only be for his primary (declared) business.
4 - Has he invalidated his insurance by taking on this job and not telling the insurers even if he is taking the family out for a Sunday drive? Very probably.
Yup, I'd agree with that, as well as your assessment of the state of play.1 - Does the OP's licence cover driving a minibus? It does if he has D1 cover and this covers up to 16 seats but not for Hire or Reward which DVLA define as "not for profit". I think that the intention of this is "not a taxi" but would cover driving a minibus as part of a job.
2 - Does the employer's insurance cover this? If the employer is providing the minibus I would expect them to insure it but this should be checked.
3 - If the OP uses his own vehicle to carry stars as part of this work is he covered? Probably not as his business cover will only be for his primary (declared) business.
4 - Has he invalidated his insurance by taking on this job and not telling the insurers even if he is taking the family out for a Sunday drive? Very probably.
Thanks for the replies so far.
To clarify, if using my own car, it would only be going to pick up and carry about equipment, not any people.
All equipment would be fully separately insured by the production companies is what I have been told.
I passed my test 40 years ago, so should have a licence for a minibus, I will check though as I've read the stories of renewed licences 'losing' categories.
To clarify, if using my own car, it would only be going to pick up and carry about equipment, not any people.
All equipment would be fully separately insured by the production companies is what I have been told.
I passed my test 40 years ago, so should have a licence for a minibus, I will check though as I've read the stories of renewed licences 'losing' categories.
Total loss said:
Thanks for the replies so far.
To clarify, if using my own car, it would only be going to pick up and carry about equipment, not any people.
All equipment would be fully separately insured by the production companies is what I have been told.
I passed my test 40 years ago, so should have a licence for a minibus, I will check though as I've read the stories of renewed licences 'losing' categories.
That is better from a hire & reward insurance point of view, but unless I'm mistaken business use covers the purpose, not whatever you're carrying. The production company may well insure the items themselves against loss, but you'd still need business cover to transport them. It might even be the case that class 1 isn't sufficient.To clarify, if using my own car, it would only be going to pick up and carry about equipment, not any people.
All equipment would be fully separately insured by the production companies is what I have been told.
I passed my test 40 years ago, so should have a licence for a minibus, I will check though as I've read the stories of renewed licences 'losing' categories.
Total loss said:
Thanks for the replies so far.
To clarify, if using my own car, it would only be going to pick up and carry about equipment, not any people.
All equipment would be fully separately insured by the production companies is what I have been told.
I passed my test 40 years ago, so should have a licence for a minibus, I will check though as I've read the stories of renewed licences 'losing' categories.
Re minibus, check the numerical code beside your D1 category on the licence if you have it from grandfather rights rather than following a test pass.To clarify, if using my own car, it would only be going to pick up and carry about equipment, not any people.
All equipment would be fully separately insured by the production companies is what I have been told.
I passed my test 40 years ago, so should have a licence for a minibus, I will check though as I've read the stories of renewed licences 'losing' categories.
Like Vanhosen said you need to check you licence. It’s quite likely you have a 101 restriction, which prohibits you driving for hire or reward.
Hire or reward is broader than you might think. It’s not just if you directly get paid for it.
For example if you set up a photography school (just for example) and offered a free minibus to the hills for landscape photography, that will be hire or reward. You are rewarded indirectly for your free minibus service by people booking onto the course.
Hire or reward is broader than you might think. It’s not just if you directly get paid for it.
For example if you set up a photography school (just for example) and offered a free minibus to the hills for landscape photography, that will be hire or reward. You are rewarded indirectly for your free minibus service by people booking onto the course.
Chainsaw Rebuild said:
Like Vanhosen said you need to check you licence. It’s quite likely you have a 101 restriction, which prohibits you driving for hire or reward.
Hire or reward is broader than you might think. It’s not just if you directly get paid for it.
For example if you set up a photography school (just for example) and offered a free minibus to the hills for landscape photography, that will be hire or reward. You are rewarded indirectly for your free minibus service by people booking onto the course.
Indeed. Local childcare business were prosecuted a few years ago. They did a drop back home service for the kids, all within the monthly fee for the childcare, and it was deemed to be H&R, for which the driver never had a licence. Hire or reward is broader than you might think. It’s not just if you directly get paid for it.
For example if you set up a photography school (just for example) and offered a free minibus to the hills for landscape photography, that will be hire or reward. You are rewarded indirectly for your free minibus service by people booking onto the course.
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