Conflicting Restrictions
Discussion
A legal question arising from some map warrioring.
What should you do if you come across a restriction that you cannot obey without contravening a previously signed restriction?
The obvious example would be a minimum speed limit above the maximum speed limit, but I doubt there are any such instances in the UK.
No, one potential example I have found applies if you're riding a bicycle.
Joining A282 - clearway
Intermediate junction- listed prohibited traffic to leave
Now it's illegal to proceed, but it's also illegal to stop!
Of course this is a scenario that should never arise, but clearly, it can.
What should you do if you come across a restriction that you cannot obey without contravening a previously signed restriction?
The obvious example would be a minimum speed limit above the maximum speed limit, but I doubt there are any such instances in the UK.
No, one potential example I have found applies if you're riding a bicycle.
Joining A282 - clearway
Intermediate junction- listed prohibited traffic to leave
Now it's illegal to proceed, but it's also illegal to stop!
Of course this is a scenario that should never arise, but clearly, it can.
BertBert said:
That looked like quite a lot of work to generate a non-question!
The question is what should you do? Obey the clearway restriction, or the no cycling restriction?I'd personally assume to make a judgment call and not be able to be pulled up for it legally, whichever way. But I'd be biased towards making progress, or s
ting myself because I'd turned onto the Dartford Crossing.It would be nice to confirm that whatever decision you took, you couldn't be prosecuted for it at that point, or if not, to know what course of action you should take.
When the Dartford tunnel first opened, they took bicycles through on truck with their riders in the trucks passenger seats.
https://www.gov.uk/dartford-crossing-bike
https://www.gov.uk/dartford-crossing-bike
I don't see any conflicting signs there. 
The listed prohibited traffic in your second picture doesn't include bicycles, it only shows oversized vehicles and it doesn't say they proceed from that point onwards, it says they need to follow the diamond sign, so they don't need to stop on the clearway either. As far as I know, the diamond sign will take them off to the side for a while and when there are enough of them to make it worthwhile, Highways Agency or some other specialist officers will stop traffic in one of the tunnels, escort the vehicles through to the other side and the tunnel will reopen.
The listed prohibited traffic in your second picture doesn't include bicycles, it only shows oversized vehicles and it doesn't say they proceed from that point onwards, it says they need to follow the diamond sign, so they don't need to stop on the clearway either. As far as I know, the diamond sign will take them off to the side for a while and when there are enough of them to make it worthwhile, Highways Agency or some other specialist officers will stop traffic in one of the tunnels, escort the vehicles through to the other side and the tunnel will reopen. QuickQuack said:
I don't see any conflicting signs there. The listed prohibited traffic in your second picture doesn't include bicycles, it only shows oversized vehicles and it doesn't say they proceed from that point onwards, it says they need to follow the diamond sign, so they don't need to stop on the clearway either. As far as I know, the diamond sign will take them off to the side for a while and when there are enough of them to make it worthwhile, Highways Agency or some other specialist officers will stop traffic in one of the tunnels, escort the vehicles through to the other side and the tunnel will reopen.
Yes, but when you get to the mouth of the tunnel, cycling is prohibited, but the sign is on the outside, which means that there's a good chance of not seeing it due to traffic in the outside lane. Or only seeing it at a point where you're already committed, unless you stop in the carriageway. The listed prohibited traffic in your second picture doesn't include bicycles, it only shows oversized vehicles and it doesn't say they proceed from that point onwards, it says they need to follow the diamond sign, so they don't need to stop on the clearway either. As far as I know, the diamond sign will take them off to the side for a while and when there are enough of them to make it worthwhile, Highways Agency or some other specialist officers will stop traffic in one of the tunnels, escort the vehicles through to the other side and the tunnel will reopen. The Spruce Goose said:
Cycling on a DC is a deathwish.
"Deathwish".
Edited by Solocle on Wednesday 14th July 06:48
Pica-Pica said:
When the Dartford tunnel first opened, they took bicycles through on truck with their riders in the trucks passenger seats.
https://www.gov.uk/dartford-crossing-bike
I feel like boarding one of these things could be a laugh!https://www.gov.uk/dartford-crossing-bike
cmvtec said:
A heady mixture of "make do and mend" and "back of a fag packet design", "Oi apprentice get the Niblex out" and "H&S, never heard of it"Today it would be even more fun on a wet day with all those SPD-SL, Look etc equipped cyclists.
There was a no cycling sign up back in 2006, but the post has since been replaced by the looks of it, and they've missed the cycle roundel off. At a guess, the illumination requirements of 3 full-size roundel signs would not allow the use of a single post, so the cycling sign may have been intended to go on it's own post and it's been missed out/overlooked. All the other slips on to the road have got cycling restrictions.
It would take a special kind of "it's my right" to think that cycling on that road is in any way sensible though.
It would take a special kind of "it's my right" to think that cycling on that road is in any way sensible though.
The Spruce Goose said:
Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. Squishy cyclist around 70mph cars will never mix.
In my experience it's fine when traffic is low. You have an overtaking lane, for, you know, overtaking. When I did a ride down the A303 last April, the one sketchy moment was on the 2 mile single carriageway section - a BMW planning to overtake me was confronted with an oncoming vehicle. It wouldn't have happened (and didn't) on the 10 miles of dual carriageway that followed.60 mph vs 70 mph is no big difference, given the sight lines of DCs. And then that video was a traffic jam, so it was 0 mph cars, while I averaged 16 mph, which is good progress.
I've also cycled on the A34 at rush hour, due to having no legal alternative routes (the one other route I knew was down the M40, which, in retrospect, would almost certainly have been safer). Whole different ball game - but until the tax monies for turning the A34 and other such roads into a motorway with a non-motorway traffic route, are provided... There are situations where cycling on a dual carriageway is hard to avoid. Take the four lane section of the A31 into Ringwood, for example.
Alucidnation said:
Wtf is map 'warrioring"?
Coming up with a route from a map, with no local knowledge used.OpulentBob said:
There was a no cycling sign up back in 2006, but the post has since been replaced by the looks of it, and they've missed the cycle roundel off. At a guess, the illumination requirements of 3 full-size roundel signs would not allow the use of a single post, so the cycling sign may have been intended to go on it's own post and it's been missed out/overlooked. All the other slips on to the road have got cycling restrictions.
It would take a special kind of "it's my right" to think that cycling on that road is in any way sensible though.
If it were a traffic jam (being the Dartford Crossing, there's a good chance!), then I'd have no qualms traffic wise, and the shuttle service would be delayed. The fumes in the tunnel might be dangerous, though...It would take a special kind of "it's my right" to think that cycling on that road is in any way sensible though.
Also, not all other slips, there's also the A2 Darenth Interchange that's missing them.
There's also the factor that without such signs, a lost cyclist might end up on the road anyway. That happened to me with the A40(
Edited by Solocle on Wednesday 14th July 08:35
Solocle said:
OpulentBob said:
There was a no cycling sign up back in 2006, but the post has since been replaced by the looks of it, and they've missed the cycle roundel off. At a guess, the illumination requirements of 3 full-size roundel signs would not allow the use of a single post, so the cycling sign may have been intended to go on it's own post and it's been missed out/overlooked. All the other slips on to the road have got cycling restrictions.
It would take a special kind of "it's my right" to think that cycling on that road is in any way sensible though.
If it were a traffic jam (being the Dartford Crossing, there's a good chance!), then I'd have no qualms traffic wise. The fumes in the tunnel might be dangerous, though...It would take a special kind of "it's my right" to think that cycling on that road is in any way sensible though.
Isn't the fact that the prohibitions sign is blue in picture 2 implying that cycles are prohibited (it a 'motorway' sign).
The seperately listed prohibitions due to size etc. are in addition to the normal ones above?
Are motorcycles under 50cc allowed for instance?
So.. cycles should follow the alternative route?
The seperately listed prohibitions due to size etc. are in addition to the normal ones above?
Are motorcycles under 50cc allowed for instance?
So.. cycles should follow the alternative route?
No ideas for a name said:
Isn't the fact that the prohibitions sign is blue in picture 2 implying that cycles are prohibited (it a 'motorway' sign).
The seperately listed prohibitions due to size etc. are in addition to the normal ones above?
Are motorcycles under 50cc allowed for instance?
So.. cycles should follow the alternative route?
Therein (possibly) lies the confusion, the Dartford Crossing isn't a motorway. It's an A-road, the A282.The seperately listed prohibitions due to size etc. are in addition to the normal ones above?
Are motorcycles under 50cc allowed for instance?
So.. cycles should follow the alternative route?
Riley Blue said:
No ideas for a name said:
Isn't the fact that the prohibitions sign is blue in picture 2 implying that cycles are prohibited (it a 'motorway' sign).
The seperately listed prohibitions due to size etc. are in addition to the normal ones above?
Are motorcycles under 50cc allowed for instance?
So.. cycles should follow the alternative route?
Therein (possibly) lies the confusion, the Dartford Crossing isn't a motorway. It's an A-road, the A282.The seperately listed prohibitions due to size etc. are in addition to the normal ones above?
Are motorcycles under 50cc allowed for instance?
So.. cycles should follow the alternative route?
Google Street View
If you explore the A282 at the Darenth Interchange - Street View
Green direction sign, this is the A282 Dartford Crossing. No signs prohibiting you from cycling up the slip road. Above you is an "end of motorway" sign - that's the M25. Then you get a load of blue informational signs about the restrictions and charges. But lane and direction signs are now green, because it's not a motorway.
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