Has government replaced religion?
Discussion
At a cricket match yesterday afternoon, we were within view of two magnificent churches. Lady Balfour and I pondered how, for centuries, people from all classes have worshiped unseen gods who may in reality not actually exist.
The reason behind it has to be that people don't like to take responsibility for their own actions, or feel comfortable with the idea of being in control. But the popularity of the church in the UK has waned.
It is clear from the news that a great swathe of the general public is really uncomfortable with "Freedom Day" tomorrow, because they would rather have a clear set of rules laid down by government. They have become infantilised. They want to be told how to live their lives.
So is there a void, where once there was the church, that might be filled with central government?
The reason behind it has to be that people don't like to take responsibility for their own actions, or feel comfortable with the idea of being in control. But the popularity of the church in the UK has waned.
It is clear from the news that a great swathe of the general public is really uncomfortable with "Freedom Day" tomorrow, because they would rather have a clear set of rules laid down by government. They have become infantilised. They want to be told how to live their lives.
So is there a void, where once there was the church, that might be filled with central government?
Louis Balfour said:
It is clear from the news that a great swathe of the general public is really uncomfortable with "Freedom Day" tomorrow, because they would rather have a clear set of rules laid down by government. They have become infantilised. They want to be told how to live their lives.
That's not fact (or anywhere close to a fact). It's your opinion, and you know what they say about opinions.Louis Balfour said:
At a cricket match yesterday afternoon, we were within view of two magnificent churches. Lady Balfour and I pondered how, for centuries, people from all classes have worshiped unseen gods who may in reality not actually exist.
The reason behind it has to be that people don't like to take responsibility for their own actions, or feel comfortable with the idea of being in control. But the popularity of the church in the UK has waned.
It is clear from the news that a great swathe of the general public is really uncomfortable with "Freedom Day" tomorrow, because they would rather have a clear set of rules laid down by government. They have become infantilised. They want to be told how to live their lives.
So is there a void, where once there was the church, that might be filled with central government?
Do you think the U.K. public might just be a bit fed up with the inept messaging from Bozza and his tory chums? Just look at today’s self isolating fiasco….The reason behind it has to be that people don't like to take responsibility for their own actions, or feel comfortable with the idea of being in control. But the popularity of the church in the UK has waned.
It is clear from the news that a great swathe of the general public is really uncomfortable with "Freedom Day" tomorrow, because they would rather have a clear set of rules laid down by government. They have become infantilised. They want to be told how to live their lives.
So is there a void, where once there was the church, that might be filled with central government?
The church and religion held a stronger pull in society once. Not going to church on Sunday was shameful. Not being married, children out of wedlock, single
Mums etc was shameful
Now if yr not spending yr beef curtains on only fans and being an influencer you’re a weirdo.
My village church is rammed with people. But all of a certain age. Elsewhere that church would be a carpet warehouse, a pub or given I’m in Yorkshire: a mosque.
That’s your growing faith: Islam.
As much as it’s nice to believe: it’s all made up. If it were a few 1000 years back we’d be worshiping a lump of stone or the sun, or a cloud. It just depends where we are in time.
Mums etc was shameful
Now if yr not spending yr beef curtains on only fans and being an influencer you’re a weirdo.
My village church is rammed with people. But all of a certain age. Elsewhere that church would be a carpet warehouse, a pub or given I’m in Yorkshire: a mosque.
That’s your growing faith: Islam.
As much as it’s nice to believe: it’s all made up. If it were a few 1000 years back we’d be worshiping a lump of stone or the sun, or a cloud. It just depends where we are in time.
AS far as I can tell vaccines have. Can't question them (even if you happen to be a top scientist) or get kicked off social media, have your career threatened or even struck off the medical register. If you can not question or challenge something it has moved from science to religion.
Countdown said:
Louis Balfour said:
It is clear from the news that a great swathe of the general public is really uncomfortable with "Freedom Day" tomorrow, because they would rather have a clear set of rules laid down by government. They have become infantilised. They want to be told how to live their lives.
That's not fact (or anywhere close to a fact). It's your opinion, and you know what they say about opinions.Jasandjules said:
If you can not question or challenge something it has moved from science to religion.
Believing the Earth isn't flat isn't a religion, it's science. Anyone who questions it is still a moron. Religion is believing in stuff without evidence, ort worse still, contrary to the evidence. If you look back at the history of the church, there are / were many reasons for its growth, but a need to have structure and a vacuum existing otherwise we’re rarely the reasons - excluding the times when war made a conquered nation ‘Christian’ the biggest reason was personal experience, personal relationship with God and sharing that with others…
Far from the church shrinking in the UK, the Church of England is reducing in numbers, but the overall church attendance is increasing. So people are moving away from the established more empty ‘rituals and religion’ to the churches which are based on the Bible and a relationship with God - the evangelical and house churches and they are continuing to grow…
Far from the church shrinking in the UK, the Church of England is reducing in numbers, but the overall church attendance is increasing. So people are moving away from the established more empty ‘rituals and religion’ to the churches which are based on the Bible and a relationship with God - the evangelical and house churches and they are continuing to grow…
Louis Balfour said:
At a cricket match yesterday afternoon, we were within view of two magnificent churches. Lady Balfour and I pondered how, for centuries, people from all classes have worshiped unseen gods who may in reality not actually exist.
The reason behind it has to be that people don't like to take responsibility for their own actions, or feel comfortable with the idea of being in control. But the popularity of the church in the UK has waned.
It is clear from the news that a great swathe of the general public is really uncomfortable with "Freedom Day" tomorrow, because they would rather have a clear set of rules laid down by government. They have become infantilised. They want to be told how to live their lives.
So is there a void, where once there was the church, that might be filled with central government?
“ When men stop believing in God they don't believe in nothing; they believe in anything.” The reason behind it has to be that people don't like to take responsibility for their own actions, or feel comfortable with the idea of being in control. But the popularity of the church in the UK has waned.
It is clear from the news that a great swathe of the general public is really uncomfortable with "Freedom Day" tomorrow, because they would rather have a clear set of rules laid down by government. They have become infantilised. They want to be told how to live their lives.
So is there a void, where once there was the church, that might be filled with central government?
Religion hasn’t been replaced by government, it’s been replaced by tribal identity politics and issues.
Most people want a sense of community and to support their tribe and protect it from enemies. The tribe is no longer an actual tribe or a religious group or even based on nationality, it’s now based on politics and thoughts about issues like brexit or wokeness or BLM and taking the knee etc.
Obviously you can’t actually get that same sense of connection from defending your favourite issue on social media that you get from helping real people in your community though so it’s all a bit messed up and unsatisfactory.
The only answer is for people to view humanity as your tribe and this likely won’t happen until aliens arrive or god appears or something happens to unite all humans against some greater threat.
Maybe we’ll just evolve into this kind of higher plane of consciousness eventually?
Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 18th July 16:56
Lily the Pink said:
There's a lot of truth in it. Plenty of people are unable to handle uncertainty, need to have clear rules about where they can go on holiday and whether they will have to self-isolate on return; do they have to wear face masks or not. Who can they blame if things don't go their way (anyone but themselves of course).
It's not that people need to have rules or to have somebody tell them what to do.For me personally it's the result of living in a democracy - one of the results of that is we all agree to abide by the same set of laws, rules, regulations. we don't decide individually what we want to do because "we know better". Without wishing to sound offensive anybody who does that is being a selfish twunt. I could drive completely safely past a school at 120mph. That doesn't mean I should. i could perfectly safely have a bonfire in my garden, right next to my neighbour's wooden treehouse. that doesn't mean I should. there are umpteen things which are legal in the UK but illegal elsewhere and vice versa. is it Ok for me to pick and choose which laws I want to follow? There are plenty of countries where that does happen - laws are non-existent or not enforced. the one common factor is that all these places tend to be s
tholes - everybody behaves however they like and sod the consequencesTL:DR - i'd prefer the UK to remain a decent law-abiding democratic country and not a 3rd world dump where we all do what we like and sod everybody else.
For the vast majority, our lives are spent fighting entropy and the 2nd law of thermodynamics. Almost everything we do can be traced back to this.
From reproduction to arranging your sock drawer. We need to create order from chaos. And institutions such as the church, government and the justice system offer order over chaos.
Of course, there are a minority of people who thrive on chaos. And I think all of us are drawn in some respect to a state of high entropy. Self destruction is not uncommon. But I’d argue the majority prefer order. Therefore if the government has replaced religion in helping create order in our lives, I don’t think it’s got anything to do with being infantilised. Rather just a shift in society from one institution to another.
We start our lives as localised low entropy states and then most of us spend the rest of our lives trying desperately to defy the 2nd law of thermodynamics.
From reproduction to arranging your sock drawer. We need to create order from chaos. And institutions such as the church, government and the justice system offer order over chaos.
Of course, there are a minority of people who thrive on chaos. And I think all of us are drawn in some respect to a state of high entropy. Self destruction is not uncommon. But I’d argue the majority prefer order. Therefore if the government has replaced religion in helping create order in our lives, I don’t think it’s got anything to do with being infantilised. Rather just a shift in society from one institution to another.
We start our lives as localised low entropy states and then most of us spend the rest of our lives trying desperately to defy the 2nd law of thermodynamics.
Edited by BorkBorkBork on Sunday 18th July 17:43
There are some parallels that can be drawn I suppose
1. Both religion and government are ways to control the population;
2. Morally, both are questionable at times (although religion far more so);
3. Both mostly appear to be primarily focussed on self preservation;
4. Both are evidently man made (although one is evolving towards gender equality).
However, government (of some form or another) is both essential and desirable. It is open to reform and evolution through democratic process. You could say it is a necessary evil.
Religion is neither essential or desirable, it fights reform and is incapable of evolution by definition. It is certainly an unnecessary evil.
I think the concern for the lack of rules (and indeed the imposition of them) is that there are swathes of the population that don't know or understand the reality of the situation, but the rules provide some comfort to them. Equally, there are those that are cynical enough to think that the rules were not right in the first place and should not have been implemented.
You could say that many views and opinions are formed by those that don't know or understand, but have faith in what they have been told by their "leaders" (Government or vocal sceptics). Much like a religion then I suppose.
But then again, god is not real and covid is, so maybe it's all just nonsense.
1. Both religion and government are ways to control the population;
2. Morally, both are questionable at times (although religion far more so);
3. Both mostly appear to be primarily focussed on self preservation;
4. Both are evidently man made (although one is evolving towards gender equality).
However, government (of some form or another) is both essential and desirable. It is open to reform and evolution through democratic process. You could say it is a necessary evil.
Religion is neither essential or desirable, it fights reform and is incapable of evolution by definition. It is certainly an unnecessary evil.
I think the concern for the lack of rules (and indeed the imposition of them) is that there are swathes of the population that don't know or understand the reality of the situation, but the rules provide some comfort to them. Equally, there are those that are cynical enough to think that the rules were not right in the first place and should not have been implemented.
You could say that many views and opinions are formed by those that don't know or understand, but have faith in what they have been told by their "leaders" (Government or vocal sceptics). Much like a religion then I suppose.
But then again, god is not real and covid is, so maybe it's all just nonsense.
Louis Balfour said:
It is clear from the news that a great swathe of the general public is really uncomfortable with "Freedom Day" tomorrow, because they would rather have a clear set of rules laid down by government. They have become infantilised. They want to be told how to live their lives.
So is there a void, where once there was the church, that might be filled with central government?
Nah.So is there a void, where once there was the church, that might be filled with central government?
It's clear plenty of people (let's call them group A) want a clear set of rules 'cos they think plenty of other people (group B) won't otherwise do what group A think is reasonable and sensible.
Group B meanwhile think group A are making a fuss over nothing.
That's not wanting to be told how to live your life, and it's disingenuous to portray it as such.
Louis Balfour said:
It is clear from the news that a great swathe of the general public is really uncomfortable with "Freedom Day" tomorrow, because they would rather have a clear set of rules laid down by government. They have become infantilised. They want to be told how to live their lives.
You've just made that up, presented it as fact and then asked a question off the back of it.Which is weird.
ETA: monthou said it more eloquently than I.
Edited by iphonedyou on Sunday 18th July 17:55
monthou said:
Louis Balfour said:
It is clear from the news that a great swathe of the general public is really uncomfortable with "Freedom Day" tomorrow, because they would rather have a clear set of rules laid down by government. They have become infantilised. They want to be told how to live their lives.
So is there a void, where once there was the church, that might be filled with central government?
Nah.So is there a void, where once there was the church, that might be filled with central government?
It's clear plenty of people (let's call them group A) want a clear set of rules 'cos they think plenty of other people (group B) won't otherwise do what group A think is reasonable and sensible.
Group B meanwhile think group A are making a fuss over nothing.
That's not wanting to be told how to live your life, and it's disingenuous to portray it as such.
Most people struggle with independent thought and the evaluation of risks much more complex than crossing a road. So what they're lacking is meaningful reassurance and they demand government action on the masses in lieu of their business as usual existence.
Steamer said:
No. But it could be close.
China have effectively replaced religion (God) with their social credit system.
All your actions and decisions are monitored and judged - depending on how 'wholesome' you life is results in how easy (or not) your life becomes.
China is lour future, one thing the last year has shown the Government want full control over there cattle, us.China have effectively replaced religion (God) with their social credit system.
All your actions and decisions are monitored and judged - depending on how 'wholesome' you life is results in how easy (or not) your life becomes.
Gassing Station | The Lounge | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff