Not getting paid (again)

[scottyp123]

This is an infuriating one, more so than other times when we occasionally struggle to get paid. We have done three jobs for a builder over the last year and every time we have struggled to get the dosh off him, we get it eventually but basically have to "have a word" with him to get him to pay. I really don't know why we have taken on this job as we should have left it well alone. He is one of those sort of people that give you 10% of the work but 80% of the hassle.

the invoice is 8 weeks old now and is for a couple of grand, he isn't a fly by night company either, he usually knocks the CIS payments off and we get a receipt for them as well so he isn't going to disappear into the night any time soon, I also know where he lives but he is full of broken promises, we were supposedly getting paid last week with Sunday as the worst case scenario, that came and went and now he says it will be today, currently its 8.30PM and no payment. I know the clients are being evasive with him with payments but it was made very clear to him before we started that even if the client didn't end up paying him he was still on the hook to pay us, it was a take it or leave it situation.

So with all that in mind, the house is first fixed electrically and it not been plastered yet, the invoice was agreed and due at the end of the fist fix stage. Whatever happens, if I eventually get paid or not I won't be going back to 2nd fix it no matter what he says now, but personally I think enough time has gone past and I reckon we should go back and strip all our gear back out of it, we have spent £300 of our own money on the materials so they are still ours, the site is unsecured and we wouldn't have to break and enter to get the stuff, we have receipts/invoices for all the materials.

I know it wouldn't get us our money but hopefully the client will ditch him and it will put him out of business, I have no idea how he keeps going anyway. I know we could go down the MCOL route and we have tried that in the past but its such a long and drawn out process and most of the time the client ignores everything anyway.

Any votes for strip the place?

[ClaphamGT3]

Vote against from me.

Keep onto him, get your money and never work for him again

[Simpo Two]

scottyp123 said:

This is an infuriating one, more so than other times when we occasionally struggle to get paid. We have done three jobs for a builder over the last year and every time we have struggled to get the dosh off him

A bit 'stable door' but the right thing to do given that record would have been to get payment up front.

But from where you are, if you start throwing toys out of the pram he'll never pay you and you've lost £2K, so keep it clean.

It's not as if that £2K would have been earning millions in interest in 8 weeks so unless you're strapped, be patient and play the game. You've won before.

[skwdenyer]

scottyp123 said:

This is an infuriating one, more so than other times when we occasionally struggle to get paid. We have done three jobs for a builder over the last year and every time we have struggled to get the dosh off him, we get it eventually but basically have to "have a word" with him to get him to pay. I really don't know why we have taken on this job as we should have left it well alone. He is one of those sort of people that give you 10% of the work but 80% of the hassle.

the invoice is 8 weeks old now and is for a couple of grand, he isn't a fly by night company either, he usually knocks the CIS payments off and we get a receipt for them as well so he isn't going to disappear into the night any time soon, I also know where he lives but he is full of broken promises, we were supposedly getting paid last week with Sunday as the worst case scenario, that came and went and now he says it will be today, currently its 8.30PM and no payment. I know the clients are being evasive with him with payments but it was made very clear to him before we started that even if the client didn't end up paying him he was still on the hook to pay us, it was a take it or leave it situation.

So with all that in mind, the house is first fixed electrically and it not been plastered yet, the invoice was agreed and due at the end of the fist fix stage. Whatever happens, if I eventually get paid or not I won't be going back to 2nd fix it no matter what he says now, but personally I think enough time has gone past and I reckon we should go back and strip all our gear back out of it, we have spent £300 of our own money on the materials so they are still ours, the site is unsecured and we wouldn't have to break and enter to get the stuff, we have receipts/invoices for all the materials.

I know it wouldn't get us our money but hopefully the client will ditch him and it will put him out of business, I have no idea how he keeps going anyway. I know we could go down the MCOL route and we have tried that in the past but its such a long and drawn out process and most of the time the client ignores everything anyway.

Any votes for strip the place?

8 weeks? Pretty normal in my experience. I’d love to ve routinely paid in much less than that time.

[scottyp123]

skwdenyer said:

scottyp123 said:

This is an infuriating one, more so than other times when we occasionally struggle to get paid. We have done three jobs for a builder over the last year and every time we have struggled to get the dosh off him, we get it eventually but basically have to "have a word" with him to get him to pay. I really don't know why we have taken on this job as we should have left it well alone. He is one of those sort of people that give you 10% of the work but 80% of the hassle.

the invoice is 8 weeks old now and is for a couple of grand, he isn't a fly by night company either, he usually knocks the CIS payments off and we get a receipt for them as well so he isn't going to disappear into the night any time soon, I also know where he lives but he is full of broken promises, we were supposedly getting paid last week with Sunday as the worst case scenario, that came and went and now he says it will be today, currently its 8.30PM and no payment. I know the clients are being evasive with him with payments but it was made very clear to him before we started that even if the client didn't end up paying him he was still on the hook to pay us, it was a take it or leave it situation.

So with all that in mind, the house is first fixed electrically and it not been plastered yet, the invoice was agreed and due at the end of the fist fix stage. Whatever happens, if I eventually get paid or not I won't be going back to 2nd fix it no matter what he says now, but personally I think enough time has gone past and I reckon we should go back and strip all our gear back out of it, we have spent £300 of our own money on the materials so they are still ours, the site is unsecured and we wouldn't have to break and enter to get the stuff, we have receipts/invoices for all the materials.

I know it wouldn't get us our money but hopefully the client will ditch him and it will put him out of business, I have no idea how he keeps going anyway. I know we could go down the MCOL route and we have tried that in the past but its such a long and drawn out process and most of the time the client ignores everything anyway.

Any votes for strip the place?

8 weeks? Pretty normal in my experience. I’d love to ve routinely paid in much less than that time.

It is if its a big company you work for, which is precisely the reason I don't do site work any more, if he said it would be 60 days payment on invoice receipt I wouldn't have done the job but the agreement was as soon as it was first fixed we would get paid, I even wanted money up front for the materials but we let that one slide.

[21TonyK]

Is it worth your time to strip the materials? Can you make more in the time spent doing this vs. waiting for half or full payment of your total bill?

I doubt you are quiet workwise and is wasting time pulling out a few hundred quids worth of materials is worthwhile?

[skwdenyer]

scottyp123 said:

It is if its a big company you work for, which is precisely the reason I don't do site work any more, if he said it would be 60 days payment on invoice receipt I wouldn't have done the job but the agreement was as soon as it was first fixed we would get paid, I even wanted money up front for the materials but we let that one slide.

Sorry, not arguing against your frustration - I feel it. I’d say however that the risks of stripping from site are large. Play the game, don’t work for them in the future is all I can suggest.

[scottyp123]

Simpo Two said:

scottyp123 said:

This is an infuriating one, more so than other times when we occasionally struggle to get paid. We have done three jobs for a builder over the last year and every time we have struggled to get the dosh off him

A bit 'stable door' but the right thing to do given that record would have been to get payment up front.

But from where you are, if you start throwing toys out of the pram he'll never pay you and you've lost £2K, so keep it clean.

It's not as if that £2K would have been earning millions in interest in 8 weeks so unless you're strapped, be patient and play the game. You've won before.

I know the money would be lost but it would be so satisfying, similar happened a couple of years ago with a different client, this was work we did 2 hours away from home and the final bill was about £3K that time, endless promises that we would get paid and it eventually came down to getting the money on the Friday evening. We decided that if it wasn't there we would go back that weekend and totally strip the place, not damage anything but undo everything we had done so when they came back on the Monday there would just be a big plie of sockets/lights/fuse boxes etc in the middle of the floor instead of where they should be.

I don't mind telling you that I was slightly disappointed that when I checked the bank at 8PM the money was there.

[scottyp123]

21TonyK said:

Is it worth your time to strip the materials? Can you make more in the time spent doing this vs. waiting for half or full payment of your total bill?

I doubt you are quiet workwise and is wasting time pulling out a few hundred quids worth of materials is worthwhile?

I want to do it for revenge. Childish maybe but why should he get away with doing things like this.

[Terminator X]

skwdenyer said:

scottyp123 said:

This is an infuriating one, more so than other times when we occasionally struggle to get paid. We have done three jobs for a builder over the last year and every time we have struggled to get the dosh off him, we get it eventually but basically have to "have a word" with him to get him to pay. I really don't know why we have taken on this job as we should have left it well alone. He is one of those sort of people that give you 10% of the work but 80% of the hassle.

the invoice is 8 weeks old now and is for a couple of grand, he isn't a fly by night company either, he usually knocks the CIS payments off and we get a receipt for them as well so he isn't going to disappear into the night any time soon, I also know where he lives but he is full of broken promises, we were supposedly getting paid last week with Sunday as the worst case scenario, that came and went and now he says it will be today, currently its 8.30PM and no payment. I know the clients are being evasive with him with payments but it was made very clear to him before we started that even if the client didn't end up paying him he was still on the hook to pay us, it was a take it or leave it situation.

So with all that in mind, the house is first fixed electrically and it not been plastered yet, the invoice was agreed and due at the end of the fist fix stage. Whatever happens, if I eventually get paid or not I won't be going back to 2nd fix it no matter what he says now, but personally I think enough time has gone past and I reckon we should go back and strip all our gear back out of it, we have spent £300 of our own money on the materials so they are still ours, the site is unsecured and we wouldn't have to break and enter to get the stuff, we have receipts/invoices for all the materials.

I know it wouldn't get us our money but hopefully the client will ditch him and it will put him out of business, I have no idea how he keeps going anyway. I know we could go down the MCOL route and we have tried that in the past but its such a long and drawn out process and most of the time the client ignores everything anyway.

Any votes for strip the place?

8 weeks? Pretty normal in my experience. I’d love to ve routinely paid in much less than that time.

I read that as 8 weeks overdue? Any later than the invoice due date is out of order imho. Some people are just too much hassle so I'm in the camp of get this money eventually by fair means albeit stop working for them.

TX.

[scottyp123]

skwdenyer said:

scottyp123 said:

It is if its a big company you work for, which is precisely the reason I don't do site work any more, if he said it would be 60 days payment on invoice receipt I wouldn't have done the job but the agreement was as soon as it was first fixed we would get paid, I even wanted money up front for the materials but we let that one slide.

Sorry, not arguing against your frustration - I feel it. I’d say however that the risks of stripping from site are large. Play the game, don’t work for them in the future is all I can suggest.

Its better than punching him though which is what my mate wants to do, he has just started and extension on his house and needs every penny he can get, I honestly don't think this bloke will pay this time, not until he is absolutely desperate for us to do anything else and I know he has serious delays with the extension to the property so its all kind of come to a stop anyway.

Maybe the answer might be to get the builder to do some work on his extension to make up for it, say £4K's worth of work as a penalty for being a tt.

[elanfan]

Cash up front before any other and ensure you add 25% hassle tax.

[98elise]

scottyp123 said:

21TonyK said:

Is it worth your time to strip the materials? Can you make more in the time spent doing this vs. waiting for half or full payment of your total bill?

I doubt you are quiet workwise and is wasting time pulling out a few hundred quids worth of materials is worthwhile?

I want to do it for revenge. Childish maybe but why should he get away with doing things like this.

If you want to mess with him don't lose money. Get paid for this job, then next time he wants a quote make it sound cheap, then don't turn up. Promise to me there the next day, then the next etc.

He will get the message.

[scottyp123]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

funnily enough I've pissed in his back garden, you have just remined me. I did a days worth of free labour for him a while ago at his house and his mental missus decided to go for a bath in the only bathroom in the house, not only did I have to piss in his grid the loft ladder I was using was inside the bathroom so I couldn't do anything either for about an hour.

Maybe the free labour was a bad idea, probably thinks I'm a soft touch now.

BTW do you have a little internet alert going for every time I post?

[Simpo Two]

scottyp123 said:

I want to do it for revenge. Childish maybe but why should he get away with doing things like this.

Do I have a memory you've been in this spot before?

Revenge will just lose you money, so if you want your £2K leave the frozen sausages at home.

Next time when somebody says they'll pay you by X o/clock, don't believe them. It will save you much stress.

[21TonyK]

scottyp123 said:

21TonyK said:

Is it worth your time to strip the materials? Can you make more in the time spent doing this vs. waiting for half or full payment of your total bill?

I doubt you are quiet workwise and is wasting time pulling out a few hundred quids worth of materials is worthwhile?

I want to do it for revenge. Childish maybe but why should he get away with doing things like this.

Its probably not relevant but a different angle...

Many (25+) years back I subbed for a co. They already owed several K and I knew they were on dodgy ground with drip fed payments every few months,

I made sure any work I did for them was in dead/spare time. Over the course of 3 months their debt to me was far in excess of their worth and ability to pay. I applied pressure as did others and they stopped paying their bills and eventually staff.

Their biggest client approached me directly to continue the service. Which I did for 10 years.
.

[scottyp123]

Simpo Two said:

scottyp123 said:

I want to do it for revenge. Childish maybe but why should he get away with doing things like this.

Do I have a memory you've been in this spot before?

Revenge will just lose you money, so if you want your £2K leave the frozen sausages at home.

Next time when somebody says they'll pay you by X o/clock, don't believe them. It will save you much stress.

Possibly, I posted a while ago asking about court bailiffs and if they were working due to covid, someone else owed us about £1200 and we went the MCOL route but he never paid, we still haven't taken it to the next step and I still don't know the situation properly with the bailiffs.

Unfortunately its a fact of the building game, occasionally people take the piss and don't pay you, they think you are loaded and won't be bothered about it or some just do it for the power trip to try and make you look like their servile little bh. I'm not sure why they do it because word gets round pretty quick and they end up not being able to get anyone to work for them again, I've known a few builders over the years that have ended up going back to just being a skivvy again for precisely this reason.

[gareth h]

I’d write to him by registered post, giving him a deadline, of say 1 week, if not paid it will be passed to a dept collection company, normally does the job.
Stripping your kit out might be satisfying but it won’t get you paid, if you want to piss him off agree to do 2nd fix, and keep delaying and then decline, which should mess up his schedules.

[bearman68]

We have had a similar problem with a builder as well. Is it something to do with the level of organisation most builders exhibit?
Anyway, because the bond of trust has been broken, and we are never going to deal with this man (company) again, we have decided to give him a week, and then write a letter before action. A week after that, we are going to employ debt recovery agents.
The debt recovery people will, I'm pretty sure reach a solution very quickly.

[scottyp123]

Remarkably £900 went in the bank last night from him. Must have been late on, not all of it though is it. I'll bet he thinks it is good enough to get us to do more work for him, but I'm thinking I'll only rip half the stuff out now.