Going from a 987.2 Cayman S to a 997.1 Carrera S...
Discussion
Don't want to start an online flame war but considering moving on from my Cayman S and grabbing a decent 997.1 Carrera S. I've done the research so the phrases "bore score", "IMS" and "RMS" are banned! 
So to those who have owned both, what can I expect as the biggest differences between the cars? Is the move worth it? Anything potentially disappointing?
Let me know your thoughts.
So to those who have owned both, what can I expect as the biggest differences between the cars? Is the move worth it? Anything potentially disappointing?
Let me know your thoughts.
Not a perfect comparison, but I moved from a 996.2 to a 987.1. Each was a DD, and I put 50k on the 996 and 80k on the 987.
987 pros: Much more comfortable long distance ride thanks to PASM and the longer wheelbase. More practical for a childless couple with the twin boots. I personally preferred the mid-engined handling.
996 pros: More power at lower revs. Maybe the steering was slightly sharper, but it was a small difference. Personally, I feel like there was more sense of occasion in a 911 than a Cayman, even for daily use.
987 pros: Much more comfortable long distance ride thanks to PASM and the longer wheelbase. More practical for a childless couple with the twin boots. I personally preferred the mid-engined handling.
996 pros: More power at lower revs. Maybe the steering was slightly sharper, but it was a small difference. Personally, I feel like there was more sense of occasion in a 911 than a Cayman, even for daily use.
NNH said:
Not a perfect comparison, but I moved from a 996.2 to a 987.1. Each was a DD, and I put 50k on the 996 and 80k on the 987.
987 pros: Much more comfortable long-distance ride thanks to PASM and the longer wheelbase. More practical for a childless couple with the twin boots. I personally preferred the mid-engined handling.
996 pros: More power at lower revs. Maybe the steering was slightly sharper, but it was a small difference. Personally, I feel like there was more sense of occasion in a 911 than a Cayman, even for daily use.
Thanks, I love the idea of grabbing a good £25k 996 but seems everyone has the exact same idea (it is summer) and having both the Cayman and the 911. I also love the practicality of the Cayman, without kids, it is great and easy to do a two-up tour across Europe.987 pros: Much more comfortable long-distance ride thanks to PASM and the longer wheelbase. More practical for a childless couple with the twin boots. I personally preferred the mid-engined handling.
996 pros: More power at lower revs. Maybe the steering was slightly sharper, but it was a small difference. Personally, I feel like there was more sense of occasion in a 911 than a Cayman, even for daily use.
Tricky because I keep going back and forth on the idea of having two cars or ploughing the cash into one car.
I moved from a 987 Spyder to a 997.2 GTS Cab. Not quite what you are considering but not a million miles away.
I changed for purely practical reasons: I got a dog, so needed a 4 seater.
The 997 has more low-down grunt and some people are more impressed by 911s for some reason.
The Spyder was sharper, better balanced and more fun to drive. On real roads I’d say the Spyder was quicker, not least because it’s narrower. Not a day goes by when I don’t regret selling it.
My vote goes for keeping the Cayman.
I changed for purely practical reasons: I got a dog, so needed a 4 seater.
The 997 has more low-down grunt and some people are more impressed by 911s for some reason.
The Spyder was sharper, better balanced and more fun to drive. On real roads I’d say the Spyder was quicker, not least because it’s narrower. Not a day goes by when I don’t regret selling it.
My vote goes for keeping the Cayman.
Swine Enthusiast said:
Thanks, I love the idea of grabbing a good £25k 996 but seems everyone has the exact same idea (it is summer) and having both the Cayman and the 911. I also love the practicality of the Cayman, without kids, it is great and easy to do a two-up tour across Europe.
Tricky because I keep going back and forth on the idea of having two cars or ploughing the cash into one car.
It's not an easy choice, it it!Tricky because I keep going back and forth on the idea of having two cars or ploughing the cash into one car.
The Cayman was fantastic for long trips. We went to the Finnish Arctic, Bulgaria/Greece, Croatia, and Romania on different trips, as well as various Le Mans trips and frequent jaunts to the Highlands from London. Before we brought the car over to the UK, we also did a coast-to-coast US trip. Currently I'm driving a sensible hatchback, but when I'm next in the market for something fun, the Cayman will be my benchmark for a do-it-all sports car.
I think on paper its difficult to justify a 997 over any cayman, they are mid engined, more balanced and in S spec pretty much as fast (apart from off lights and away from roundabouts etc where a 911's ability to stick power down is always amazing)
But and here is the but, if you love 911, have ever had one before or fancy a car that handles in the particular way a 911 does then there is simply no comparison. 911's are pretty unique and I think the 997.1 is old fashion enough to just about keep some of the old 911 charm.....I am bais of course but I have tried many caymans and they maybe better but not for somebody that likes the way a 911 drives - best to try really, I would personally hire one for a day or so......
But and here is the but, if you love 911, have ever had one before or fancy a car that handles in the particular way a 911 does then there is simply no comparison. 911's are pretty unique and I think the 997.1 is old fashion enough to just about keep some of the old 911 charm.....I am bais of course but I have tried many caymans and they maybe better but not for somebody that likes the way a 911 drives - best to try really, I would personally hire one for a day or so......
I currently have a 1998 996 c2 manual, 981 Boxster S PDK and I just bought a 2001 Boxster S. Once you decide you want a specific Porsche model it's hard to change your own mind.
I had a 997 C2S in 2005 and I loved that car.
My first Porsche was a 2003 Boxster S which I had before the 997 and I also loved that car.
These cars are all good but just different.
I'd recommend you keep the Cayman if you like it so much. I think the 997 will be a bit angrier than the Cayman. My 997 had a standard exhaust and the cold start of that 3.8 was truly epic. The 997 will be slightly quicker than the Cayman but you'd be hard pressed to notice. I'm talking straight line thrust here which is hardly super relevant but the point is the 3.8 is pokey.
The main reason to try a 911 of any flavour is the rear engine format. If you've never tried it then you need to. The 997 has a bit less overall rear engine feeling than a 996. I think the 996 is worth considering but won't try too hard to persuade you as that's muddying the water.
I had a 997 C2S in 2005 and I loved that car.
My first Porsche was a 2003 Boxster S which I had before the 997 and I also loved that car.
These cars are all good but just different.
I'd recommend you keep the Cayman if you like it so much. I think the 997 will be a bit angrier than the Cayman. My 997 had a standard exhaust and the cold start of that 3.8 was truly epic. The 997 will be slightly quicker than the Cayman but you'd be hard pressed to notice. I'm talking straight line thrust here which is hardly super relevant but the point is the 3.8 is pokey.
The main reason to try a 911 of any flavour is the rear engine format. If you've never tried it then you need to. The 997 has a bit less overall rear engine feeling than a 996. I think the 996 is worth considering but won't try too hard to persuade you as that's muddying the water.
I know you don't want to hear those words, but a 997.1 S would worry me.
And I say that as someone who had a 987.1 3.4S Tiptronic Boxster!
I honestly think the Cayman is probably a better car, but if you want to have a go at the 911 then the 997.2 is a sweat spot, before they got over bloated.
I have a 911, and had it first. If I hadn't I would always want a 911. But I do think the Cayman/Boxster are better, especially as the 911 has increasingly put on weight and got old and fat.
And I say that as someone who had a 987.1 3.4S Tiptronic Boxster!
I honestly think the Cayman is probably a better car, but if you want to have a go at the 911 then the 997.2 is a sweat spot, before they got over bloated.
I have a 911, and had it first. If I hadn't I would always want a 911. But I do think the Cayman/Boxster are better, especially as the 911 has increasingly put on weight and got old and fat.
When I was Porsche hunting I tested a 987.2 and 997.2 back to back.
Ended up buying the 997.2, the 987.2 is very competent and I would say predictable so easy to extract good performance. The 997.2 is a very different beast and requires more effort to extract the same level of performance compared to the 987.2.
For me, the 997.2 I think is just a more enjoyable drive than the 987.2.
Ended up buying the 997.2, the 987.2 is very competent and I would say predictable so easy to extract good performance. The 997.2 is a very different beast and requires more effort to extract the same level of performance compared to the 987.2.
For me, the 997.2 I think is just a more enjoyable drive than the 987.2.
gottans said:
Ended up buying the 997.2, the 987.2 is very competent and I would say predictable so easy to extract good performance. The 997.2 is a very different beast and requires more effort to extract the same level of performance compared to the 987.2.
Rather fanciful interpretation in my experience. 997 is a pretty modern car with very high limits in road driving terms. Moreover, the shift, pedal box, steering etc are virtually identical in both cars. Struggle to see where the 997 presents more effort to extract performance in road driving terms.Absolutely on the limit there's the weight distribution arguably makes it more technical to drive re managing the mass. But on the road? It's more about feel, not effort or outright performance - you're not really running out of grip on the road in a 997, are you? Otherwise, when / where in a road context are you putting more effort in with a 997 over a 987?
F6C said:
gottans said:
Ended up buying the 997.2, the 987.2 is very competent and I would say predictable so easy to extract good performance. The 997.2 is a very different beast and requires more effort to extract the same level of performance compared to the 987.2.
Rather fanciful interpretation in my experience. 997 is a pretty modern car with very high limits in road driving terms. Moreover, the shift, pedal box, steering etc are virtually identical in both cars. Struggle to see where the 997 presents more effort to extract performance in road driving terms.Absolutely on the limit there's the weight distribution arguably makes it more technical to drive re managing the mass. But on the road? It's more about feel, not effort or outright performance - you're not really running out of grip on the road in a 997, are you? Otherwise, when / where in a road context are you putting more effort in with a 997 over a 987?
F6C said:
gottans said:
Ended up buying the 997.2, the 987.2 is very competent and I would say predictable so easy to extract good performance. The 997.2 is a very different beast and requires more effort to extract the same level of performance compared to the 987.2.
Rather fanciful interpretation in my experience. 997 is a pretty modern car with very high limits in road driving terms. Moreover, the shift, pedal box, steering etc are virtually identical in both cars. Struggle to see where the 997 presents more effort to extract performance in road driving terms.Absolutely on the limit there's the weight distribution arguably makes it more technical to drive re managing the mass. But on the road? It's more about feel, not effort or outright performance - you're not really running out of grip on the road in a 997, are you? Otherwise, when / where in a road context are you putting more effort in with a 997 over a 987?
I love both but I'd always pick the 997.1. No brainer bags more character. I think 997 is a contender for coolest modern 911 out there on our roads at the moment.
That 996 above stunning
gottans said:
Maybe the word 'effort' isn't the best description but rather than just critiquing my response maybe you could help the OP with an answer?
None of us can do that. It's an entirely subjective problem. Some people will prefer the 987. Others the 997.My post does actually address the question to the extent that it clarifies a point of view regarding the comparative dynamics. But it remains a subjective point of view and ultimately the OP is absolutely on their own. The question boils down to 'tell me what I like' and none of us can do that. Think if we're honest, many of us change our mind on this kind of subject, in any case. You can go back and forth with these cars and I personally find once you've cycled through a few of these options (ie once you've owned a few of them) you realise you're always going to miss the car you don't have at that moment a bit.
It's probably why those with the means end up with extensive garages.
NoTreadLeft said:
I moved from a 987 Spyder to a 997.2 GTS Cab. Not quite what you are considering but not a million miles away.
I changed for purely practical reasons: I got a dog, so needed a 4 seater.
The 997 has more low-down grunt and some people are more impressed by 911s for some reason.
The Spyder was sharper, better balanced and more fun to drive. On real roads I’d say the Spyder was quicker, not least because it’s narrower. Not a day goes by when I don’t regret selling it.
My vote goes for keeping the Cayman.
Haha exactly this. Swapped my 987.1 Boxster for a 997.1 carrera to give the dog a seat. I changed for purely practical reasons: I got a dog, so needed a 4 seater.
The 997 has more low-down grunt and some people are more impressed by 911s for some reason.
The Spyder was sharper, better balanced and more fun to drive. On real roads I’d say the Spyder was quicker, not least because it’s narrower. Not a day goes by when I don’t regret selling it.
My vote goes for keeping the Cayman.
I’d had a 987.2 PDK a few years ago but preferred the manual .1 I had later. Such a fun car, and like you, feel they are more enjoyable overall than 911s. A 987 Spyder is extremely high on my all time ‘want’ list.
But the 997 offers a lot of its own unique qualities and despite my preconceptions, there’s not so much overlap with the 987 that you feel mugged off that they’re 3x the price. The 997 reminds me more of my old e46 m3 in how much of a normal car it feels day to day compared to the a Boxster which always felt far more purposeful.
olv said:
Haha exactly this. Swapped my 987.1 Boxster for a 997.1 carrera to give the dog a seat.
In my case it was so that the wife could have a seat I do think it's all very spec & condition dependent. It's no wonder people think there are big differences between 987s & 997s - there can be big enough differences driving two 987s from the same year back-to-back: condition of tyres & suspension, wheel sizes, geometry, LSD etc... all make a noticeable difference.
Makes it even harder to do an objective comparison between 987 & 997. For me the 997 has a bit more power, a bit more weight, and if you unsettle it you can feel the centre of mass is in a different place. Not better or worse - just different. If you want those things, or 4 seats, or 4wd, or more power, get the 997.
Really amusing that 3 to 5 years ago the 997.1 was the car to avoid, any talk of which would bring a cascade of comments along the lines of are you mad...good luck with that ...save up and buy a 997.2 far far far superior......when I tried to make a case that the 997.1 actually felt slightly better than the 997.2 (not a lot as they are so similar..) more feeling less audi type engine and it has not turned to the LED dark side just like every other car the response would be --- I am clearly delusional......
But it now appears that the lowly 997.1 once heading for the sub £20k 911 graveyard is starting to be appreciated......
But it now appears that the lowly 997.1 once heading for the sub £20k 911 graveyard is starting to be appreciated......
When I was looking for a car a few years ago, a friend suggested that I should try a 911 and I tried the 997.2 in C2, C2S and C4S guises and I wasn't sure. The dealer put me in a 987 Cayman R, which I liked the best - the handling was just what I wanted. It didn't have the classic looks of the 911, but it felt like a much better drive than the 911s. But it was expensive and I didn't want PDK, so they let me loose in a 981 Boxster S. I hadn't been looking for a convertible as I'd never driven one, but I was hooked. The steering wasn't as good as it is on the Cayman R but it still had that mid-engine handling and I was hooked on the sound of the Boxster with PSE. I don't have children, and every time I think about a 911 I remember that I'd be losing the rear boot that makes it such a supremely convenient car to own. The boot on the Cayman is even more versatile and you might find you miss it when it's gone!
Swine Enthusiast said:
Don't want to start an online flame war but considering moving on from my Cayman S and grabbing a decent 997.1 Carrera S. I've done the research so the phrases "bore score", "IMS" and "RMS" are banned!
So to those who have owned both, what can I expect as the biggest differences between the cars? Is the move worth it? Anything potentially disappointing?
Let me know your thoughts.
Why are you thinking about changing?So to those who have owned both, what can I expect as the biggest differences between the cars? Is the move worth it? Anything potentially disappointing?
Let me know your thoughts.
Unless you want the extra seats, or are interested in learning/experiencing the slightly different driving style that they need, not sure you’ll feel like it’s a worthwhile change.
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