Uk Metal engineering/manufacturing - what’s the truth?
Discussion
My dad has a dormant metal engineering company/unit still with all the tooling and machinery to get going again, had a break for a couple of years which coincided with a drop in demand from uk manufactures.
He made high number repetition/turn parts for construction industries/motor industries etc etc
We keep getting told companies are struggling to get metal manufactured parts from abroad from China for instance and are now buying from UK as it’s cheaper/faster. We are just trying to find out if there is anyone in the industry who can confirm this is the case and a wide problem or just exaggeration? He can open the factory up very easily but we are struggling to find out if there really is demand out there.
Thanks in advance
He made high number repetition/turn parts for construction industries/motor industries etc etc
We keep getting told companies are struggling to get metal manufactured parts from abroad from China for instance and are now buying from UK as it’s cheaper/faster. We are just trying to find out if there is anyone in the industry who can confirm this is the case and a wide problem or just exaggeration? He can open the factory up very easily but we are struggling to find out if there really is demand out there.
Thanks in advance
What kit? I’m guessing CNC, milling and turning? What capacity and size etc?
We (I say ‘we’ but I really mean the family biz which I don’t work in) have been kept steady doing big size, steady volume work for aero and nuclear plus the more vanilla stuff, some rail too. A lot of it is on location and reputation for us, slowly cranking up the price and they keep paying.
ETA: did look at getting into supplying some car production stuff but the faff to guarantee steady, JIT volume didn't work for us.
We (I say ‘we’ but I really mean the family biz which I don’t work in) have been kept steady doing big size, steady volume work for aero and nuclear plus the more vanilla stuff, some rail too. A lot of it is on location and reputation for us, slowly cranking up the price and they keep paying.
ETA: did look at getting into supplying some car production stuff but the faff to guarantee steady, JIT volume didn't work for us.
Global container & shipping costs, specifically those from China have increased massively over the last year or so This will make domestic manufactured items more competitive. I'd imagine though there's still a way to go on shipping costs to make parity given labour, rent & taxes but it is a move in the right direction.
One thing i think COVID might do is begin the decentralisation of manufacturing away from China as a lot of companies will not quickly forget about supply shortages we're seeing at the moment when the entire world uses one country for he majority of its stuff.
One thing i think COVID might do is begin the decentralisation of manufacturing away from China as a lot of companies will not quickly forget about supply shortages we're seeing at the moment when the entire world uses one country for he majority of its stuff.
I used to own a metal fabrication and engineering company in China until 2012. I shut it down and we now manufacture in house.
The best thing we ever did, much higher quality and we charge more, with no issues!
If I was younger and wanted to start something again, I might look at: e-bikes and e-motorbikes, still in their infancy, mostly crap quality.
Hire a very good CAD engineer, and use a consultant like me for ideas. Then your kit will get used.
The best thing we ever did, much higher quality and we charge more, with no issues!
If I was younger and wanted to start something again, I might look at: e-bikes and e-motorbikes, still in their infancy, mostly crap quality.
Hire a very good CAD engineer, and use a consultant like me for ideas. Then your kit will get used.
Getting the engineers might be hard as pointed out above, if you have the factory mothballed then you obviously own everything so you could start it small to start with and cherrypick jobs, that might be a good way to go, I am not convinced the stuff from China and Taiwan will get much more expensive in the long term, your selling USP could be quality and lead times and then ensure you make the right profit margins.
We're struggling to get precision anodized aluminium components made at work to our tolerances by sub contractors as we no longer have in house capability. What kind of stuff and tolerances can you work to?
We've previously had a couple of companies basically 100% working for our stuff, but we still need more capacity.
We've previously had a couple of companies basically 100% working for our stuff, but we still need more capacity.
Been involved in machining since I was 16, now 42! Done pretty much everything from my apprenticeship to medical and oil and gas, technical sales, and now back in a tech lead role doing CAD/CAM research in aerospace. I've seen and dealt with everything from Fred in a shed to blue chip OEM's.
There's definitely money to be made in UK manufacturing / machining but you need to invest in tech and processes as well as skilled staff.
I would love one day to have a little set up making my own product. I do have a plan but it's a while off yet.
If you work smart you can be successful.
On a side note I once went in a total dump of a place, walking around on swarf and coolant, broken duckboards etc. He was making oxygen tanks for ESA! When I asked why / how he said he was the only person who could get them consistently right.
There's definitely money to be made in UK manufacturing / machining but you need to invest in tech and processes as well as skilled staff.
I would love one day to have a little set up making my own product. I do have a plan but it's a while off yet.
If you work smart you can be successful.
On a side note I once went in a total dump of a place, walking around on swarf and coolant, broken duckboards etc. He was making oxygen tanks for ESA! When I asked why / how he said he was the only person who could get them consistently right.
Mate is looking at electric commuter bikes or hybrid types - has a few ideas - lots of cheap ones with chinese components.
He was looking at euro manufactured and assembled, seems to think there is a market here and in the US for euro flavour. its quality people are seeking, decent seats and crank motors with decent range. A 100 mile self propelled would be fantastic range with pedal assist. Batteries are getting better - trialing a 150kWh pack 250w being the street limit, but off road could be more for the mountain biking set.
manufacturing will come back me thinks
He was looking at euro manufactured and assembled, seems to think there is a market here and in the US for euro flavour. its quality people are seeking, decent seats and crank motors with decent range. A 100 mile self propelled would be fantastic range with pedal assist. Batteries are getting better - trialing a 150kWh pack 250w being the street limit, but off road could be more for the mountain biking set.
manufacturing will come back me thinks
ruggedscotty said:
Mate is looking at electric commuter bikes or hybrid types - has a few ideas - lots of cheap ones with chinese components.
He was looking at euro manufactured and assembled, seems to think there is a market here and in the US for euro flavour. its quality people are seeking, decent seats and crank motors with decent range. A 100 mile self propelled would be fantastic range with pedal assist. Batteries are getting better - trialing a 150kWh pack 250w being the street limit, but off road could be more for the mountain biking set.
manufacturing will come back me thinks
I agree with you, see my post above.He was looking at euro manufactured and assembled, seems to think there is a market here and in the US for euro flavour. its quality people are seeking, decent seats and crank motors with decent range. A 100 mile self propelled would be fantastic range with pedal assist. Batteries are getting better - trialing a 150kWh pack 250w being the street limit, but off road could be more for the mountain biking set.
manufacturing will come back me thinks
The biggest challenge now would be getting the materials at cost that wouldn't make it prohibitive to start.
Bespoke, high quality and well engineered pieces will always be in demand.
Slightly off topic but British engineering/manufacturing could thrive if the conditions were right. People are starting to realise that degrees aren't the golden ticket to 100k salaries.
3d printed parts are the future, titanium printed parts for aerospace, power generation and medical implants/devices. Big money to be made.
Bespoke, high quality and well engineered pieces will always be in demand.
Slightly off topic but British engineering/manufacturing could thrive if the conditions were right. People are starting to realise that degrees aren't the golden ticket to 100k salaries.
3d printed parts are the future, titanium printed parts for aerospace, power generation and medical implants/devices. Big money to be made.
BGARK said:
ruggedscotty said:
Mate is looking at electric commuter bikes or hybrid types - has a few ideas - lots of cheap ones with chinese components.
He was looking at euro manufactured and assembled, seems to think there is a market here and in the US for euro flavour. its quality people are seeking, decent seats and crank motors with decent range. A 100 mile self propelled would be fantastic range with pedal assist. Batteries are getting better - trialing a 150kWh pack 250w being the street limit, but off road could be more for the mountain biking set.
manufacturing will come back me thinks
I agree with you, see my post above.He was looking at euro manufactured and assembled, seems to think there is a market here and in the US for euro flavour. its quality people are seeking, decent seats and crank motors with decent range. A 100 mile self propelled would be fantastic range with pedal assist. Batteries are getting better - trialing a 150kWh pack 250w being the street limit, but off road could be more for the mountain biking set.
manufacturing will come back me thinks
under 30 miles return and time wise its not that far behind the tram car trip or even the bus.
winter will be a challenge but hey im on the bike more than not.
If they get the bike quality up and a decent price point then its a win win. Im not looking for the cheapest ! but the best for the price.
I work for an international manufacturing company. Bit of a brain dump...
Historically we were driven by cheap prices so moved a lot to China/India 10-15 years ago... the sourcing team is still only measured on cost really and most site purchasing teams aren't that "strategic". Our logistics is inefficient and so buying behaviour is typically to order quantities to fill containers infrequently. We have no sales forecast and love doing specials for customers... basically we always have too much of the wrong stuff. we regularly end up expediting with airfreight. Bit of a s
t show really.
The factory ops teams are measured on customer on time delivery , and inventory... and while they need to maintain margin one way or another they need to get the inventory down and shorter leadtimes to meet changing customer demand. We flip-flop around over the increased costs of local supply and finding the "right" suppliers to give us the Holy grail of matching the low costs but being responsive.
Really we need an efficient regional supplier, who is capable of their own "lean thinking" to help us balance local labour/material costs with efficiencies to make it work better than our distant supply base.
there are probably a lot of companies that would love to have a good domestic supplier at the moment.
Need to be smart with forecast and contracts and maybe willing to hold some stock so the customer gets their low inventory and low leadtime, (but ultimately your arse is covered for the stock liability). Need to really understand how to cost the products. Need to be proactive on the drive for efficiencies in your process and no one wants a st hole machine shop with swarf everywhere, ste H&S etc
We're looking at a lot of machinists in Turkey at the moment for European factories, but do have projects to consolidate machining within the UK, and reduce in-house machining by outsourcing domestically.
Historically we were driven by cheap prices so moved a lot to China/India 10-15 years ago... the sourcing team is still only measured on cost really and most site purchasing teams aren't that "strategic". Our logistics is inefficient and so buying behaviour is typically to order quantities to fill containers infrequently. We have no sales forecast and love doing specials for customers... basically we always have too much of the wrong stuff. we regularly end up expediting with airfreight. Bit of a s
t show really.The factory ops teams are measured on customer on time delivery , and inventory... and while they need to maintain margin one way or another they need to get the inventory down and shorter leadtimes to meet changing customer demand. We flip-flop around over the increased costs of local supply and finding the "right" suppliers to give us the Holy grail of matching the low costs but being responsive.
Really we need an efficient regional supplier, who is capable of their own "lean thinking" to help us balance local labour/material costs with efficiencies to make it work better than our distant supply base.
there are probably a lot of companies that would love to have a good domestic supplier at the moment.
Need to be smart with forecast and contracts and maybe willing to hold some stock so the customer gets their low inventory and low leadtime, (but ultimately your arse is covered for the stock liability). Need to really understand how to cost the products. Need to be proactive on the drive for efficiencies in your process and no one wants a s
t hole machine shop with swarf everywhere, ste H&S etcWe're looking at a lot of machinists in Turkey at the moment for European factories, but do have projects to consolidate machining within the UK, and reduce in-house machining by outsourcing domestically.
Edited by Glade on Thursday 29th July 22:25
Glade said:
I work for an international manufacturing company. Bit of a brain dump...
Historically we were driven by cheap prices so moved a lot to China/India 10-15 years ago... the sourcing team is still only measured on cost really and most site purchasing teams aren't that "strategic". Our logistics is inefficient and so buying behaviour is typically to order quantities to fill containers infrequently. We have no sales forecast and love doing specials for customers... basically we always have too much of the wrong stuff. we regularly end up expediting with airfreight. Bit of a st show really.
The factory ops teams are measured on customer on time delivery , and inventory... and while they need to maintain margin one way or another they need to get the inventory down and shorter leadtimes to meet changing customer demand. We flip-flop around over the increased costs of local supply and finding the "right" suppliers to give us the Holy grail of matching the low costs but being responsive.
Really we need an efficient regional supplier, who is capable of their own "lean thinking" to help us balance local labour/material costs with efficiencies to make it work better than our distant supply base.
there are probably a lot of companies that would love to have a good domestic supplier at the moment. If you are smart with forecast and contracts and willing to hold some stock so the customer gets low inventory and low leadtime, but your arse is covered for the stock liability, then it can work. Need to really understand how to cost the products. Need to be proactive on the drive for efficiencies in your process. No one really wants a st hole machine shop with swarf everywhere, ste H&S etc
We're looking at a lot of machinists in Turkey at the moment for European factories, but do have projects to consolidate machining within the UK, and reduce in-house machining by outsourcing domestically.
I like your post, it gives a lot to think about.Historically we were driven by cheap prices so moved a lot to China/India 10-15 years ago... the sourcing team is still only measured on cost really and most site purchasing teams aren't that "strategic". Our logistics is inefficient and so buying behaviour is typically to order quantities to fill containers infrequently. We have no sales forecast and love doing specials for customers... basically we always have too much of the wrong stuff. we regularly end up expediting with airfreight. Bit of a s
t show really.The factory ops teams are measured on customer on time delivery , and inventory... and while they need to maintain margin one way or another they need to get the inventory down and shorter leadtimes to meet changing customer demand. We flip-flop around over the increased costs of local supply and finding the "right" suppliers to give us the Holy grail of matching the low costs but being responsive.
Really we need an efficient regional supplier, who is capable of their own "lean thinking" to help us balance local labour/material costs with efficiencies to make it work better than our distant supply base.
there are probably a lot of companies that would love to have a good domestic supplier at the moment. If you are smart with forecast and contracts and willing to hold some stock so the customer gets low inventory and low leadtime, but your arse is covered for the stock liability, then it can work. Need to really understand how to cost the products. Need to be proactive on the drive for efficiencies in your process. No one really wants a s
t hole machine shop with swarf everywhere, ste H&S etcWe're looking at a lot of machinists in Turkey at the moment for European factories, but do have projects to consolidate machining within the UK, and reduce in-house machining by outsourcing domestically.
To do what you are asking even in the UK is possible, people do it, I do it.
I suppose it partly starts with a new change of mindset that manufacturing can be done in this country, and sometimes equal or cheaper than the countries you mention. Logistics alone can add huge costs that seem to be an afterthought for many that solely look at a part price?
Full automation and robotics do help of course, which can mean one very skilled person can run several machines alone. This is how we remain competitive.
Plus it helps to be extremely anal about cleanliness and organisation.
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