Rishi says go back to the office if you want to do well
Discussion
The chancellor has said that if young people care about their career, they need to return to offices, as video conferencing was 'no substitute'.
https://bmmagazine.co.uk/news/go-back-to-office-if...
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/go-back-to-offi...
Rishi is clearly trying to encourage people back to the office for the sake of the economy, but is he right about career progression?
I believe he is. Humans will be humans, and however much we would like to be totally objective about promoting the best person for the job based on their ability, there is no doubt that many managers/directors/CEO's will have their decision influenced by who they see around the office more, and who appears to be 'more willing' to attend in person, and those they can build more of a rapport and relationship with in person.
Over the years I have seen numerous good employees pushed out, sidelined or ignored just because their face didn't fit or because they hadn't cultivated a rapport with those above them. It isn't right, but it happens, and I feel that home working will make it even harder for those that just get on with the job and don't feel the need to socialise, mingle, or go out to lunch with their colleagues and managers.
Yet at the same time, home working offers many benefits and will form an integral part of reducing our impact on the environment, and we should be encouraging it where possible.
Depends entirely on the type of business of course, and your experience will vary.
https://bmmagazine.co.uk/news/go-back-to-office-if...
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/go-back-to-offi...
Rishi is clearly trying to encourage people back to the office for the sake of the economy, but is he right about career progression?
I believe he is. Humans will be humans, and however much we would like to be totally objective about promoting the best person for the job based on their ability, there is no doubt that many managers/directors/CEO's will have their decision influenced by who they see around the office more, and who appears to be 'more willing' to attend in person, and those they can build more of a rapport and relationship with in person.
Over the years I have seen numerous good employees pushed out, sidelined or ignored just because their face didn't fit or because they hadn't cultivated a rapport with those above them. It isn't right, but it happens, and I feel that home working will make it even harder for those that just get on with the job and don't feel the need to socialise, mingle, or go out to lunch with their colleagues and managers.
Yet at the same time, home working offers many benefits and will form an integral part of reducing our impact on the environment, and we should be encouraging it where possible.
Depends entirely on the type of business of course, and your experience will vary.
My company has recently made remote working the norm, unless your role requires you to be on site.
I think that going into an office to do a 9 - 5 will become as outdated as wearing a suit and tie every day as time goes on.
With regards to the economy, I’m not the best example as the only places near my work were a Farmfoods and a burger van but I now spend far more at local shops than I would’ve if I’d been going in to the office every day. The money still get’s spent, just in different places.
I think that going into an office to do a 9 - 5 will become as outdated as wearing a suit and tie every day as time goes on.
With regards to the economy, I’m not the best example as the only places near my work were a Farmfoods and a burger van but I now spend far more at local shops than I would’ve if I’d been going in to the office every day. The money still get’s spent, just in different places.
Most of our if you're not in the office you're not being productive people were either retired off or made redundant over the last few years. Oddly enough they were the least productive people and pretty stagnant.
What Rishi is really saying is keep commuting/buying coffee/sandwiches/Friday beers etc
ETA: I’m 2 days office 3 days home, at my own decision.
What Rishi is really saying is keep commuting/buying coffee/sandwiches/Friday beers etc
ETA: I’m 2 days office 3 days home, at my own decision.
ZedLeg said:
My company has recently made remote working the norm, unless your role requires you to be on site.
I think that going into an office to do a 9 - 5 will become as outdated as wearing a suit and tie every day as time goes on.
With regards to the economy, I’m not the best example as the only places near my work were a Farmfoods and a burger van but I now spend far more at local shops than I would’ve if I’d been going in to the office every day. The money still get’s spent, just in different places.
How do you train your replacement?I think that going into an office to do a 9 - 5 will become as outdated as wearing a suit and tie every day as time goes on.
With regards to the economy, I’m not the best example as the only places near my work were a Farmfoods and a burger van but I now spend far more at local shops than I would’ve if I’d been going in to the office every day. The money still get’s spent, just in different places.
I firmly believe every large company that part of everyones roles is to train those below them to take over their job
the-sharpener said:
How do you train your replacement?
I firmly believe every large company that part of everyones roles is to train those below them to take over their job
Had this chat with a mate about new Grads, his answer was sharing your screen all day, like they would be sitting next to you in the office. Sod that I thoughtI firmly believe every large company that part of everyones roles is to train those below them to take over their job
I moved jobs nearly a year ago, from a contract position, into a staff position with another company that does similar work.
I've 'acquired responsibility' for a graduate and an apprentice.
As well as being out of the office for over a year (over half their time with the company so far) they're geographically, nowhere near me.
It's been a challenge. Soon, there will be office space for them at the companies main location, and I'm urging them to get into the office as soon as they possibly can. It's been difficult enough for me to find useful ways to work from home, hundreds of miles away, but at least I've got half an idea what I'm doing.
You learn, especially at that stage in your career, by osmosis. These guys are missing that.
I've 'acquired responsibility' for a graduate and an apprentice.
As well as being out of the office for over a year (over half their time with the company so far) they're geographically, nowhere near me.
It's been a challenge. Soon, there will be office space for them at the companies main location, and I'm urging them to get into the office as soon as they possibly can. It's been difficult enough for me to find useful ways to work from home, hundreds of miles away, but at least I've got half an idea what I'm doing.
You learn, especially at that stage in your career, by osmosis. These guys are missing that.
Captain Raymond Holt said:
Probably the same way I took on my new role, being trained by my predecessor - me in London him in New York.
Location is only a barrier if you make it one.
Yep, exactly the same as me. Some of our staff work at opposite ends of the country and it's actually been easier to assist people with skype (we're a little outdated) as we can share screen as we work through a problem and keep an open skype, sometimes on a time critical job we've had open skypes for many hours just chatting as we work and then discussing issues as they come up. There's no way it'd be productive for someone to stand behind a desk watching me work for hours but with an open skype and screen share they can get on with what they want and then glance up at a point I do something they've not. They can ask a question at any point rather than stop what they're doing, walk over to me. It just flows. Location is only a barrier if you make it one.
I've been working from home since the initial lockdown and productivity has increased by a significant margin.
The ability to not be distracted by office activity, create your own work zone to your exact requirements and simply get your head down in to work, has meant I've been able to get through a noticeable amount more work than what I ever got through in the office environment.
On top of that as you become your own manager of time, you can spread out some rest periods and also put more time in to the work that requires real concentration when needed. This flexibility along with not having to do the depressing competitive commute every day all aids to a more productive set up.
Modern day internet connections has meant Teams meetings are just as if not more productive than face-to-face, with the added benefit of anybody being able to share their screen and update progress visually. Something that never happened in face-to-face.
Any way, I think for some home working is a huge benefit and for others going back to the office will be the way to go. I would hate to see the government think they should adopt a position to start dictating this.
If they are worried about the failing high streets and passing trade, then this trend was set off years ago when successive governments and local authorities went down the path of over-zealous tree hugging and forcing away the convenience of accessing the high streets, for the goal of ticking boxes relating to CO2 levels.
The ability to not be distracted by office activity, create your own work zone to your exact requirements and simply get your head down in to work, has meant I've been able to get through a noticeable amount more work than what I ever got through in the office environment.
On top of that as you become your own manager of time, you can spread out some rest periods and also put more time in to the work that requires real concentration when needed. This flexibility along with not having to do the depressing competitive commute every day all aids to a more productive set up.
Modern day internet connections has meant Teams meetings are just as if not more productive than face-to-face, with the added benefit of anybody being able to share their screen and update progress visually. Something that never happened in face-to-face.
Any way, I think for some home working is a huge benefit and for others going back to the office will be the way to go. I would hate to see the government think they should adopt a position to start dictating this.
If they are worried about the failing high streets and passing trade, then this trend was set off years ago when successive governments and local authorities went down the path of over-zealous tree hugging and forcing away the convenience of accessing the high streets, for the goal of ticking boxes relating to CO2 levels.
Lord Marylebone said:
The chancellor has said that if young people care about their career, they need to return to offices, as video conferencing was 'no substitute'.
https://bmmagazine.co.uk/news/go-back-to-office-if...
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/go-back-to-offi...
Rishi is clearly trying to encourage people back to the office for the sake of the economy, but is he right about career progression?
I believe he is. Humans will be humans, and however much we would like to be totally objective about promoting the best person for the job based on their ability, there is no doubt that many managers/directors/CEO's will have their decision influenced by who they see around the office more, and who appears to be 'more willing' to attend in person, and those they can build more of a rapport and relationship with in person.
Over the years I have seen numerous good employees pushed out, sidelined or ignored just because their face didn't fit or because they hadn't cultivated a rapport with those above them. It isn't right, but it happens, and I feel that home working will make it even harder for those that just get on with the job and don't feel the need to socialise, mingle, or go out to lunch with their colleagues and managers.
Yet at the same time, home working offers many benefits and will form an integral part of reducing our impact on the environment, and we should be encouraging it where possible.
Depends entirely on the type of business of course, and your experience will vary.
Last July we had the Prime Minster saying pretty much the same thing;https://bmmagazine.co.uk/news/go-back-to-office-if...
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/go-back-to-offi...
Rishi is clearly trying to encourage people back to the office for the sake of the economy, but is he right about career progression?
I believe he is. Humans will be humans, and however much we would like to be totally objective about promoting the best person for the job based on their ability, there is no doubt that many managers/directors/CEO's will have their decision influenced by who they see around the office more, and who appears to be 'more willing' to attend in person, and those they can build more of a rapport and relationship with in person.
Over the years I have seen numerous good employees pushed out, sidelined or ignored just because their face didn't fit or because they hadn't cultivated a rapport with those above them. It isn't right, but it happens, and I feel that home working will make it even harder for those that just get on with the job and don't feel the need to socialise, mingle, or go out to lunch with their colleagues and managers.
Yet at the same time, home working offers many benefits and will form an integral part of reducing our impact on the environment, and we should be encouraging it where possible.
Depends entirely on the type of business of course, and your experience will vary.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavi...
Only for the work from home advice to return by late September 2020, I wonder whether we will get the same 'reverse' this time around.
Interesting post.
I work for a large city corporate and have largely sat in the massive office on my own for the last 2 years. I work on the construction side which has mainly carried on as normal throughout hence why I'm here. There are more staff in now they've trickled back but no where near 100% more like 10%. I think the staff who want to be in work are already back. I'm 54 and always been what I'd term a hard worker, I must say I prefer being in work, I like that barrier between work and home.
However the world is changing or has changed over the last couple of years, trying to get anything done or completed to a good standard has become increasingly difficult for a whole host of reasons. I think people have tasted that different life style and the thought of commuting back to the city 5 days a week or even 3 days does not appeal. I think that the staff who have really dragged their heels may have a rude awakening when the firm realizes that it doesn't really need them as much as they, the staff, think it does. I mean why pay premium London rates to staff when they are working from home (or even in the country) that rate goes with all the hassle of hauling your backside out of bed at 5.30 for the commute . This is already being spoken about internally so the great "rebalancing" may not go the way people think. Watching channel 4 at a family break from the rat race and set up a self funding farm in Wales whilst sat on your sofa collecting wages from a job that you've not been too for 2 years and you've mentally detached yourself from is all well and good but few have the real determination and where with all to do it. .
I must admit I'm pleased I'm approaching the end of my career.
I work for a large city corporate and have largely sat in the massive office on my own for the last 2 years. I work on the construction side which has mainly carried on as normal throughout hence why I'm here. There are more staff in now they've trickled back but no where near 100% more like 10%. I think the staff who want to be in work are already back. I'm 54 and always been what I'd term a hard worker, I must say I prefer being in work, I like that barrier between work and home.
However the world is changing or has changed over the last couple of years, trying to get anything done or completed to a good standard has become increasingly difficult for a whole host of reasons. I think people have tasted that different life style and the thought of commuting back to the city 5 days a week or even 3 days does not appeal. I think that the staff who have really dragged their heels may have a rude awakening when the firm realizes that it doesn't really need them as much as they, the staff, think it does. I mean why pay premium London rates to staff when they are working from home (or even in the country) that rate goes with all the hassle of hauling your backside out of bed at 5.30 for the commute . This is already being spoken about internally so the great "rebalancing" may not go the way people think. Watching channel 4 at a family break from the rat race and set up a self funding farm in Wales whilst sat on your sofa collecting wages from a job that you've not been too for 2 years and you've mentally detached yourself from is all well and good but few have the real determination and where with all to do it. .
I must admit I'm pleased I'm approaching the end of my career.
Of course Sunak would say that, I am sure he is not biased at all 
COVID helped address the work/life balance and a lot of people realise just how utterly pointless it is commuting to an office 5 days a week. If companies won't introduce flexible working policies, they will find themselves losing talent to those who will.
COVID helped address the work/life balance and a lot of people realise just how utterly pointless it is commuting to an office 5 days a week. If companies won't introduce flexible working policies, they will find themselves losing talent to those who will.
vixen1700 said:
Last contract I finished was back in January and trained up somebody via Teams and it wasn't a problem, in fact I never even knew what he looked like.
Don't regret jacking in 'office life' at all.
Ditto training via teams ( or zoom) is a great way of doing it. Don't regret jacking in 'office life' at all.
Even if you go down to one saving Grace is you can record specific tasks which can be reviewed over and over.
WFH works for people who know what they are doing but not really for those learning. That has been my experience and seems to be the firm's opinion as well as , despite being very busy, virtually all the new starters were furloughed in the first lockdown.
Depending on motivation WFH can easily be more productive for experienced workers as they are missing out on commuting time and general time wasting in office. That doesn't solve the issue though of how to train the next generation.
Which is why "hybrid" working is what many are talking about. The numbers of days office based under said hybrid depending on role and experience. If you are an experienced worker in a technical role, without much supervision and training of others, then you can still be primarily, almost exclusively, WFH under such a system.
And to get back to the subject of the thread Rishi is mainly trying to prop up the sectors that benefited from the "old" way of working, which is understandable. What he says does have some truth to it though and those who wish for promotion will be focusing on building relationships with those above them and that is no doubt easier if they are the next desk over.
Depending on motivation WFH can easily be more productive for experienced workers as they are missing out on commuting time and general time wasting in office. That doesn't solve the issue though of how to train the next generation.
Which is why "hybrid" working is what many are talking about. The numbers of days office based under said hybrid depending on role and experience. If you are an experienced worker in a technical role, without much supervision and training of others, then you can still be primarily, almost exclusively, WFH under such a system.
And to get back to the subject of the thread Rishi is mainly trying to prop up the sectors that benefited from the "old" way of working, which is understandable. What he says does have some truth to it though and those who wish for promotion will be focusing on building relationships with those above them and that is no doubt easier if they are the next desk over.
Edited by JagLover on Tuesday 3rd August 09:32
What Rishi says, is largely academic unless they issue another directive. WFH is experience, role and sector specific in benefit. Even within sectors, huge variation exists in practicality. What light work for accounting control, won't work for market risk etc.
I think industries and then firms will figure it out themselves. What is quite interesting, is a global divide in approach (or at least in FS). We here are pushing a hybrid model, but by Labour Day, the US offices and staff will almost ALL be back in the office - for most functions. The top down message is, if you can go put, eat out etc, you can come to the office.....
For global or US centric firms, I think that will ripple outwards.
I think industries and then firms will figure it out themselves. What is quite interesting, is a global divide in approach (or at least in FS). We here are pushing a hybrid model, but by Labour Day, the US offices and staff will almost ALL be back in the office - for most functions. The top down message is, if you can go put, eat out etc, you can come to the office.....
For global or US centric firms, I think that will ripple outwards.
There has been talk about getting some of us back into the office, on a sort of rota. I live 70 miles away so been loving WFH but I pointed out to my boss, if I'm going to travel to the office, I won't be sitting there to be seen, it will be a base to make site visits and catch up with people. Not to sit at a desk and type emails, that can be done at home.
So I might be on the rota to be "in the office" but I won't be in the office!
So I might be on the rota to be "in the office" but I won't be in the office!
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