Big power FWD. Bad idea? ( Cupra 280 )
Discussion
Hi everyone,
I wanted to hear people's opinions regarding big power FWD builds. Hopefully there's people here that have had a similar dilemma in the past.
Most people will say around 300bhp is the limit with FWD but there's plenty of modified mk2 Focus RS' for example running 700bhp+ through the front axle.
I'm starting this topic because in a year or two I will be looking at changing cars. One car very high up on my list is a Cupra 280. At stage 2 level they produce anything from 390-420bhp. Stage 3 level they can produce 450-500+bhp. A lot of you will think I'm mad to consider going past stage 2 but I do mostly motorway miles so I'm never really doing 0-60 times, thus meaning AWD is not a priority to me. These cars at stage 2 level can do a 100-200kph time of around 7 seconds which is very fast, at stage 3 level, I've seen one cupra do a 100-200 in 6.2.
Would it be pointless in me getting a Cupra and taking it to stage 3 level or should I look at going for something like a high-milage Golf R or a decent M135i instead?
Thanks everyone
I wanted to hear people's opinions regarding big power FWD builds. Hopefully there's people here that have had a similar dilemma in the past.
Most people will say around 300bhp is the limit with FWD but there's plenty of modified mk2 Focus RS' for example running 700bhp+ through the front axle.
I'm starting this topic because in a year or two I will be looking at changing cars. One car very high up on my list is a Cupra 280. At stage 2 level they produce anything from 390-420bhp. Stage 3 level they can produce 450-500+bhp. A lot of you will think I'm mad to consider going past stage 2 but I do mostly motorway miles so I'm never really doing 0-60 times, thus meaning AWD is not a priority to me. These cars at stage 2 level can do a 100-200kph time of around 7 seconds which is very fast, at stage 3 level, I've seen one cupra do a 100-200 in 6.2.
Would it be pointless in me getting a Cupra and taking it to stage 3 level or should I look at going for something like a high-milage Golf R or a decent M135i instead?
Thanks everyone
Rowe said:
Buy the best car your budget will allow, as opposed to spending less and modifying one.
Hi there Yeah that's definitely my thinking, overall the Golf R is probably the dream "hot hatch" for someone like me. I'm not sure whether it's worth the premium as I doubt I'd make use of the AWD. I do like a bit of fun when I'm driving too and everyone seems to suggest that Golf R's are not the most thrilling things in the world. But then again, they are absolute machines once played around with, and talk about the ultimate daily driver!Dylanaledhall said:
Rowe said:
Buy the best car your budget will allow, as opposed to spending less and modifying one.
Hi there Yeah that's definitely my thinking, overall the Golf R is probably the dream "hot hatch" for someone like me. I'm not sure whether it's worth the premium as I doubt I'd make use of the AWD. I do like a bit of fun when I'm driving too and everyone seems to suggest that Golf R's are not the most thrilling things in the world. But then again, they are absolute machines once played around with, and talk about the ultimate daily driver!I'd be looking elsewhere for anything fun to drive, I've had 2 now from new but only because they've been cheap as daily drivers with a decent amount of power when it's needed.
A standard Cupra is pretty fast, a standard car struggles for traction sometimes. At those numbers you've quoted its going to be a handful on anything but the smoothest, straightest road on the warmest of days.
You're also going to have to consider supporting mods outside of the engine/trans. You're going to need bigger brakes, better suspension etc.
Go for it if you really want to, but you're going to have an expensive, fast Seat that cant really use its full power most of the time.
You're also going to have to consider supporting mods outside of the engine/trans. You're going to need bigger brakes, better suspension etc.
Go for it if you really want to, but you're going to have an expensive, fast Seat that cant really use its full power most of the time.
singlecoil said:
Presumably you have a use other than 'motorway miles' in mind for this car? I ask because the scope for doing 100 to 200kph is somewhat limited, at least on the motorways I'm aware of.
Yes you're absolutely right, but yeah at the moment I'm mainly motorway miles, I just used the 100-200 times to give an idea of the rolling/ in-gear acceleration. To he honest I'm just looking at something that's quick but can do all the daily things too. I'd like to say I'd take the car on track but to be honest I don't think it'll ever make it. But I do live in South Wales so the car would be taken to the local mountain roads a lot of the timeOverall, just looking for something that can achieve decent power and fun, along with being decently economical when I want it to and big enough to carry 4 other people
PHuzzy said:
The Leon isn't particularly fun to drive, it's very point and squirt with lots of scrabbling for traction going on, even as standard with 290 or 300bhp it'll struggle in the dry to put all the power down in 2nd and 3rd, in the wet/damp you can extend that to 4th and even 5th.
I'd be looking elsewhere for anything fun to drive, I've had 2 now from new but only because they've been cheap as daily drivers with a decent amount of power when it's needed.
Very insightful, thanks for the advice I'd be looking elsewhere for anything fun to drive, I've had 2 now from new but only because they've been cheap as daily drivers with a decent amount of power when it's needed.
PHuzzy said:
The Leon isn't particularly fun to drive, it's very point and squirt with lots of scrabbling for traction going on, even as standard with 290 or 300bhp it'll struggle in the dry to put all the power down in 2nd and 3rd, in the wet/damp you can extend that to 4th and even 5th.
I'd be looking elsewhere for anything fun to drive, I've had 2 now from new but only because they've been cheap as daily drivers with a decent amount of power when it's needed.
May I ask what do you drive at the moment? Thanks I'd be looking elsewhere for anything fun to drive, I've had 2 now from new but only because they've been cheap as daily drivers with a decent amount of power when it's needed.
TheOctaneAddict said:
A standard Cupra is pretty fast, a standard car struggles for traction sometimes. At those numbers you've quoted its going to be a handful on anything but the smoothest, straightest road on the warmest of days.
You're also going to have to consider supporting mods outside of the engine/trans. You're going to need bigger brakes, better suspension etc.
Go for it if you really want to, but you're going to have an expensive, fast Seat that cant really use its full power most of the time.
Cheers, thanks for your advice You're also going to have to consider supporting mods outside of the engine/trans. You're going to need bigger brakes, better suspension etc.
Go for it if you really want to, but you're going to have an expensive, fast Seat that cant really use its full power most of the time.
Depends what you want out of it. If you want to stick drag tyres on and hit the Pod then it will be an awesome RWYB car. If you want to overtake "you shall not pass my TDI" types without fear of getting hung out to dry, it will be great for that too.
However, the weight distribution and drive axle location aren't changing so extra power won't turn it into a sports car or supercar for setting lap times. Doesn't mean you wouldn't have fun in it, but whenever I've spoken to someone with an epic-power FWD car they always end up having some way to wind back the power for driveability and generally find driving in the wet a horrible experience.
However, the weight distribution and drive axle location aren't changing so extra power won't turn it into a sports car or supercar for setting lap times. Doesn't mean you wouldn't have fun in it, but whenever I've spoken to someone with an epic-power FWD car they always end up having some way to wind back the power for driveability and generally find driving in the wet a horrible experience.
donkmeister said:
Depends what you want out of it. If you want to stick drag tyres on and hit the Pod then it will be an awesome RWYB car. If you want to overtake "you shall not pass my TDI" types without fear of getting hung out to dry, it will be great for that too.
However, the weight distribution and drive axle location aren't changing so extra power won't turn it into a sports car or supercar for setting lap times. Doesn't mean you wouldn't have fun in it, but whenever I've spoken to someone with an epic-power FWD car they always end up having some way to wind back the power for driveability and generally find driving in the wet a horrible experience.
Thanks for the insight However, the weight distribution and drive axle location aren't changing so extra power won't turn it into a sports car or supercar for setting lap times. Doesn't mean you wouldn't have fun in it, but whenever I've spoken to someone with an epic-power FWD car they always end up having some way to wind back the power for driveability and generally find driving in the wet a horrible experience.
I'm just trying to weigh up my options because after my stage 3 fiesta, I think it's going to take something around 400bhp to impress me. I've spoken to a few people on the fiesta forums saying they went from their fiestas, into a car such as a Golf R and then go back to their Fiestas because they miss the fun aspect. I'm not against something like an M135i it's just they are limited power wise in comparison to the M140i. I'm not here to chase numbers, I just know the Golf R/ Cupra engine can go very far ( power wise) in comparison to an N55. (I'm told it's very expensive to get more than 440bhp from an m135i) Dylanaledhall said:
PHuzzy said:
The Leon isn't particularly fun to drive, it's very point and squirt with lots of scrabbling for traction going on, even as standard with 290 or 300bhp it'll struggle in the dry to put all the power down in 2nd and 3rd, in the wet/damp you can extend that to 4th and even 5th.
I'd be looking elsewhere for anything fun to drive, I've had 2 now from new but only because they've been cheap as daily drivers with a decent amount of power when it's needed.
May I ask what do you drive at the moment? Thanks I'd be looking elsewhere for anything fun to drive, I've had 2 now from new but only because they've been cheap as daily drivers with a decent amount of power when it's needed.
I've also spotted the VAG group engine which seems to make a ridiculous amount of power. I guess it's in a couple of different vehicles but the SEAT seems to be the one which gets modified most often.
I don't have a M135i but did have a 220hp BMW 325i which is similar in a lot of important ways.
What you get with a high power front wheel drive small capacity turbocharged engine that's making those sorts of figures is an engine and power delivery which works well in a very limited set of circumstances. The only time it is going to be faster than a lower output BMW is with ideal conditions on a drag strip. All the rest of the time the BMW will be faster.
Compared to the BMW which can do 0-60 in 6 seconds with only 200hp you're going to be getting extra power very inefficiently and when it does come you'll be unable to use it. The BMW can accelerate from a standstill with foot flat to the floor and revs to 7000rpm with power and torque delivered at a uniform rate with no nasty peaks. Going through first gear in the modified SEAT you might leave the line cleanly but it's going to tear the tyres off the rims at 4000rpm and then very shortly after you'll have to change gear. You're going to be mucking about feathering the throttle to try and keep the situation under control. In the meantime the BMW will be pulling ahead because he hasn't even had to change out of first yet. Over the course of a 1/4 mile in ideal conditions as you get into 3rd gear you could still overtake the BMW at 70mph and get across the line first.
It depends what you want at the end of the day but there's a reason why front engine, rear drive cars are so popular in the sports car category... that configuration works really well. Turbonutter front wheel drive cars are fun as well... but it'll never drive as well as a BMW.
I don't have a M135i but did have a 220hp BMW 325i which is similar in a lot of important ways.
What you get with a high power front wheel drive small capacity turbocharged engine that's making those sorts of figures is an engine and power delivery which works well in a very limited set of circumstances. The only time it is going to be faster than a lower output BMW is with ideal conditions on a drag strip. All the rest of the time the BMW will be faster.
Compared to the BMW which can do 0-60 in 6 seconds with only 200hp you're going to be getting extra power very inefficiently and when it does come you'll be unable to use it. The BMW can accelerate from a standstill with foot flat to the floor and revs to 7000rpm with power and torque delivered at a uniform rate with no nasty peaks. Going through first gear in the modified SEAT you might leave the line cleanly but it's going to tear the tyres off the rims at 4000rpm and then very shortly after you'll have to change gear. You're going to be mucking about feathering the throttle to try and keep the situation under control. In the meantime the BMW will be pulling ahead because he hasn't even had to change out of first yet. Over the course of a 1/4 mile in ideal conditions as you get into 3rd gear you could still overtake the BMW at 70mph and get across the line first.
It depends what you want at the end of the day but there's a reason why front engine, rear drive cars are so popular in the sports car category... that configuration works really well. Turbonutter front wheel drive cars are fun as well... but it'll never drive as well as a BMW.
Fun is very subjective, having a high powered FWD car which is scrabbling around and easy to chuck about could be ideal for one person and less appealing to another.
I've driven a 260bhp FWD hot hatch (Megane Trophy) which didn't have any fancy diffs and was a pretty old car, I'm sure a newer car can handle that bit more power especially applying it in corners better. I think FWD cars have definitely gained more credibility than when I first got into quicker cars, everything had to be RWD and actually RenaultSport and the likes of the Focus RS' showed that you could get genuinely competent FWD cars.
Personally, if I was looking for 350bhp+ I'd be looking more towards something RWD but then my car preferences have changed from hot hatches to fast saloons in the last 4-5 years.
I've driven a 260bhp FWD hot hatch (Megane Trophy) which didn't have any fancy diffs and was a pretty old car, I'm sure a newer car can handle that bit more power especially applying it in corners better. I think FWD cars have definitely gained more credibility than when I first got into quicker cars, everything had to be RWD and actually RenaultSport and the likes of the Focus RS' showed that you could get genuinely competent FWD cars.
Personally, if I was looking for 350bhp+ I'd be looking more towards something RWD but then my car preferences have changed from hot hatches to fast saloons in the last 4-5 years.
Dylanaledhall said:
Hi everyone,
I wanted to hear people's opinions regarding big power FWD builds. Hopefully there's people here that have had a similar dilemma in the past.
Most people will say around 300bhp is the limit with FWD but there's plenty of modified mk2 Focus RS' for example running 700bhp+ through the front axle.
I'm starting this topic because in a year or two I will be looking at changing cars. One car very high up on my list is a Cupra 280. At stage 2 level they produce anything from 390-420bhp. Stage 3 level they can produce 450-500+bhp. A lot of you will think I'm mad to consider going past stage 2 but I do mostly motorway miles so I'm never really doing 0-60 times, thus meaning AWD is not a priority to me. These cars at stage 2 level can do a 100-200kph time of around 7 seconds which is very fast, at stage 3 level, I've seen one cupra do a 100-200 in 6.2.
Would it be pointless in me getting a Cupra and taking it to stage 3 level or should I look at going for something like a high-milage Golf R or a decent M135i instead?
Thanks everyone
If you like upgrading your cars then start with a good base with that in mind I'd be looking for a Megane RS or the GTC VXR both are great platforms that'll handle nice power upgrades as well as suspension ones plus both come with an LSD as standard.I wanted to hear people's opinions regarding big power FWD builds. Hopefully there's people here that have had a similar dilemma in the past.
Most people will say around 300bhp is the limit with FWD but there's plenty of modified mk2 Focus RS' for example running 700bhp+ through the front axle.
I'm starting this topic because in a year or two I will be looking at changing cars. One car very high up on my list is a Cupra 280. At stage 2 level they produce anything from 390-420bhp. Stage 3 level they can produce 450-500+bhp. A lot of you will think I'm mad to consider going past stage 2 but I do mostly motorway miles so I'm never really doing 0-60 times, thus meaning AWD is not a priority to me. These cars at stage 2 level can do a 100-200kph time of around 7 seconds which is very fast, at stage 3 level, I've seen one cupra do a 100-200 in 6.2.
Would it be pointless in me getting a Cupra and taking it to stage 3 level or should I look at going for something like a high-milage Golf R or a decent M135i instead?
Thanks everyone
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