Jimmy Saville - new programme
Discussion
Apparently another documentary on Saville (with a couple more in the wings).
What I don’t understand is that no-one has been prosecuted. Senior staff at the BBC, the government and other institutions must have known and kept quiet or worse, facilitated the abuse by forcing people to be quiet. He was even given keys and rooms at some places like Stoke Mandeville.
Why is nothing being done? Clearly the same powerful people that let him get away with his abuse are protecting themselves or being protected by others with power. So nothing has improved.
What I don’t understand is that no-one has been prosecuted. Senior staff at the BBC, the government and other institutions must have known and kept quiet or worse, facilitated the abuse by forcing people to be quiet. He was even given keys and rooms at some places like Stoke Mandeville.
Why is nothing being done? Clearly the same powerful people that let him get away with his abuse are protecting themselves or being protected by others with power. So nothing has improved.
elanfan said:
Can we not forget this f
ker not that I’m saying culpable folk should escape prosecution.
I would be happy to forget him - after those culpable in enabling his abuse have been prosecuted. ker not that I’m saying culpable folk should escape prosecution.Last week a group of men were sent to jail for murder. Only one pulled the trigger but all those involved got hefty sentences. Why should Saville’s helpers get better treatment? Hundreds of children were raped and abused and no one is accountable? Makes the UK look worse than a banana republic or other failed states.
Esceptico said:
elanfan said:
Can we not forget this fker not that I’m saying culpable folk should escape prosecution.
I would be happy to forget him - after those culpable in enabling his abuse have been prosecuted. ker not that I’m saying culpable folk should escape prosecution.Last week a group of men were sent to jail for murder. Only one pulled the trigger but all those involved got hefty sentences. Why should Saville’s helpers get better treatment? Hundreds of children were raped and abused and no one is accountable? Makes the UK look worse than a banana republic or other failed states.
I was talking only the other day with someone who knows the cost of... the temerity of defence, from someone like spacey. The whole industry is grim.
I doubt there's any provable evidence to prosecute and convict anyone. Most of it will be hearsay and circumstantial.
Discovery’s Jimmy Savile: The People Who Knew is the first; a Netflix two-parter is due later this year and a BBC docudrama, The Reckoning, is also in production.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIpN-dd-scI
Discovery’s Jimmy Savile: The People Who Knew is the first; a Netflix two-parter is due later this year and a BBC docudrama, The Reckoning, is also in production.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIpN-dd-scI
Edited by LeadFarmer on Saturday 7th August 22:27
ClaphamGT3 said:
1. Can specific offences be identified?
And
2. Is there a realistic chance of a successful prosecution at trial?
Without a yes to both, no one is going to be prosecuted
Even without any prosecutions there should be a public enquiry or similar. Seems like it is being brushed under the carpet. Something like 450 victims spread out over decades yet no one is being held to account. And
2. Is there a realistic chance of a successful prosecution at trial?
Without a yes to both, no one is going to be prosecuted
Teddy Lop said:
Esceptico said:
elanfan said:
Can we not forget this fker not that I’m saying culpable folk should escape prosecution.
I would be happy to forget him - after those culpable in enabling his abuse have been prosecuted. ker not that I’m saying culpable folk should escape prosecution.Last week a group of men were sent to jail for murder. Only one pulled the trigger but all those involved got hefty sentences. Why should Saville’s helpers get better treatment? Hundreds of children were raped and abused and no one is accountable? Makes the UK look worse than a banana republic or other failed states.
I was talking only the other day with someone who knows the cost of... the temerity of defence, from someone like spacey. The whole industry is grim.
I'll tenuously link this thread to the 'how much is the black market worth?' thread.
It's a lost cause,the guy is dead.
There simply isn't the resource to delve so deep into this vile mans past and his associates activities.
garagewidow said:
Teddy Lop said:
Esceptico said:
elanfan said:
Can we not forget this fker not that I’m saying culpable folk should escape prosecution.
I would be happy to forget him - after those culpable in enabling his abuse have been prosecuted. ker not that I’m saying culpable folk should escape prosecution.Last week a group of men were sent to jail for murder. Only one pulled the trigger but all those involved got hefty sentences. Why should Saville’s helpers get better treatment? Hundreds of children were raped and abused and no one is accountable? Makes the UK look worse than a banana republic or other failed states.
I was talking only the other day with someone who knows the cost of... the temerity of defence, from someone like spacey. The whole industry is grim.
I'll tenuously link this thread to the 'how much is the black market worth?' thread.
It's a lost cause,the guy is dead.
There simply isn't the resource to delve so deep into this vile mans past and his associates activities.
Although i reckon theres a few more in the woodwork.
Mrs Draw was admin at a certain council when Cyril Smith was in power.
It was well known then that young boys were to be kept well clear of him.
That was known from admin upwards. How far up it went I don’t know but almost certainly to director level. The activities of Saville might not have been as well known but they would be known to more than you’d think.
But knowing is a long way from getting a successful prosecution. It takes a lot of pressure from high up in the justice system to even investigate such claims. Walking into a police station to tell the bod at the desk isn’t going to get you far.
Actually I’d be very surprised if Saville’s activities weren’t flagged up at the time. That’s where the investigation if any should focus.
I enjoyed JFI too...all very harmless when you're 8.
The problem will be (as has been aluded to) there will be zero evidence left to support any prosecution.
Records, files etc will have been disposed of. Testimonies from people who are now dead. Witnesses incapable of giving testimony.
And the system was very good at squashing the unfortunate victims who got caught in it...not being believed, passed off as petty criminals or drug users etc without any regard to them.
In some ways it seems very similar to the recent news items on London children's care homes, or the church run orphanage schools in Canada or Ireland etc.
One thing a public inquiry would achieve is a visible signal that society won't tolerate the kinds of people who behave like this, and maybe make those who know but can't say feel more confident to speak out.
Yes it would cost more than the do nothing option, but sometimes society has to be more than just a business case.
The problem will be (as has been aluded to) there will be zero evidence left to support any prosecution.
Records, files etc will have been disposed of. Testimonies from people who are now dead. Witnesses incapable of giving testimony.
And the system was very good at squashing the unfortunate victims who got caught in it...not being believed, passed off as petty criminals or drug users etc without any regard to them.
In some ways it seems very similar to the recent news items on London children's care homes, or the church run orphanage schools in Canada or Ireland etc.
One thing a public inquiry would achieve is a visible signal that society won't tolerate the kinds of people who behave like this, and maybe make those who know but can't say feel more confident to speak out.
Yes it would cost more than the do nothing option, but sometimes society has to be more than just a business case.
Ian Geary said:
I enjoyed JFI too...all very harmless when you're 8.
The problem will be (as has been aluded to) there will be zero evidence left to support any prosecution.
Records, files etc will have been disposed of. Testimonies from people who are now dead. Witnesses incapable of giving testimony.
And the system was very good at squashing the unfortunate victims who got caught in it...not being believed, passed off as petty criminals or drug users etc without any regard to them.
In some ways it seems very similar to the recent news items on London children's care homes, or the church run orphanage schools in Canada or Ireland etc.
One thing a public inquiry would achieve is a visible signal that society won't tolerate the kinds of people who behave like this, and maybe make those who know but can't say feel more confident to speak out.
Yes it would cost more than the do nothing option, but sometimes society has to be more than just a business case.
I don’t believe it would change anything. It would be tokenism at best. Not at this level, but bullying and harassment remain rife and businesses still defend the accused and try to get rid of the complaint. Until this is directly addressed the culture remains in place to excuse behaviour in the same way it was in all of these situations. The problem will be (as has been aluded to) there will be zero evidence left to support any prosecution.
Records, files etc will have been disposed of. Testimonies from people who are now dead. Witnesses incapable of giving testimony.
And the system was very good at squashing the unfortunate victims who got caught in it...not being believed, passed off as petty criminals or drug users etc without any regard to them.
In some ways it seems very similar to the recent news items on London children's care homes, or the church run orphanage schools in Canada or Ireland etc.
One thing a public inquiry would achieve is a visible signal that society won't tolerate the kinds of people who behave like this, and maybe make those who know but can't say feel more confident to speak out.
Yes it would cost more than the do nothing option, but sometimes society has to be more than just a business case.
HappyClappy said:
I met him once at the top of Sutton Bank after going for a hoon and parking up for a walk to see the White Horse. Was wearing his usual tracksuit, shook his hand and said nice to meet you.
Obviously before all his shenanigans came to light.
Those hands have been places Obviously before all his shenanigans came to light.
When the inquiry on all this came out, there was a BBC outside broadcast van on the kerb by Stoke Mandeville hospital. The hospital is about 150 yards from my house. I nipped to Asda, right next to SM and decided to have a chat with the BBC crew in the van. Mainly – “why did it take so long to realise what this guy was up to? You do know there have been strong rumours about Saville since I’ve lived here?” 1998….
He wouldn’t be drawn into it, but he did say they wouldn’t keep reporting on it ad inifinitum as people get emotional fatigue from these stories and start to blank them out as it gets too depressing. I’m still not sure I believe this.
It was a shame that the ITV crew had gone; they might have had a different perspective.
I think many, many people have to pass away until some truths start to appear – if they ever do.
He wouldn’t be drawn into it, but he did say they wouldn’t keep reporting on it ad inifinitum as people get emotional fatigue from these stories and start to blank them out as it gets too depressing. I’m still not sure I believe this.
It was a shame that the ITV crew had gone; they might have had a different perspective.
I think many, many people have to pass away until some truths start to appear – if they ever do.
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