Labour loves the working class!!!
Discussion
Bless em , calling for further immigration to solve labour shortages , best to look after your rich mates, and keep the lower orders in their place eh !!
Never mind silly things like training and re training or paying people properly just get another wave to trample them , must still work on the old if you keep em down poor and dependent they will vote labour .
Never mind silly things like training and re training or paying people properly just get another wave to trample them , must still work on the old if you keep em down poor and dependent they will vote labour .
dai1983 said:
Thought one of the main selling points of sovereignty was that we could decide who to let in depending on what we needed? Now it must be no one at all?
Your blatantly skint mate Tim Martin suggested the same about staff for his pubs a few months back.
I've not seen the quotes or anything in question, but it does seem strange in a world where we are worried about growing inequality we ignore the impact of effectively increasing the workforce, which overall will mean wages can be held lower as there is more competition between workers for jobs, instead of between companies for workers. Your blatantly skint mate Tim Martin suggested the same about staff for his pubs a few months back.
(Just to make it clear, I've a middle-class lifestyle and a Brit living as an immigrant in Norway under the previous EU movement).
A lot of people like me (including many I know) blamed Brexit on stupid poor people who had no idea what they were voting for. The complete blindness to see that freedom of movement meant typically lower paid jobs could be filled by cheap workers from other parts of Europe keeps on surprising me. Yes, it works well for someone like me. But why would someone in a low paid job view something that allows cheap workers to compete with them for their supermarket job or mechanic job at the local garage to be a good thing for them? In addition, that's at the same time as more people puts pressure on housing supply and other demands. So it's nothing like being stupid or racist. It's being against something that makes their living costs go up, and holds back wages from rising more. It's not a surprise Labour keep getting smashed when they ignore this and think along the lines of neo-liberalism which basically prioritises companies more than workers in many ways.
(Of course the counter is that we need more workers to try and make some growth and/or need more workers to pay the big pension and health bomb of the boomers retiring, and since the current UK population would slowly be decreasing without migration it helps delay/smooth out the problem more... but it's never really talked about).
dai1983 said:
Thought one of the main selling points of sovereignty was that we could decide who to let in depending on what we needed? Now it must be no one at all?
Your blatantly skint mate Tim Martin suggested the same about staff for his pubs a few months back.
That’s correct, part of the brexit deal is for Sectors of industry who have labour shortages should advise Government of that situation. If it’s found that the labour shortage cannot be resolved with the existing labour resource within the U.K then applications from ROW. will be assessed and visa’s provided to successful applicants. Your blatantly skint mate Tim Martin suggested the same about staff for his pubs a few months back.
Certainly offers a system of control which is what was promised as part of the brexit deal.
That’s how it is now, best get used to it.
Well the only recent story I can find is where Labour and industry figures are suggesting relaxing rules for foreign truck drivers while we are short. There's also some mention of food preperarion jobs too.
If that's not a great example to demonstrate the system I should be getting used to then I don't know what is?
If that's not a great example to demonstrate the system I should be getting used to then I don't know what is?
dai1983 said:
Well the only recent story I can find is where Labour and industry figures are suggesting relaxing rules for foreign truck drivers while we are short. There's also some mention of food preperarion jobs too.
If that's not a great example to demonstrate the system I should be getting used to then I don't know what is?
Expect the industry reps have taken their cases to the appropriate Minister. As you mention it is exactly the situation that the system is supposed to cater for.Of course that presupposes people i want to work on th jobs in the U.K. Somebody on this forum mentioned that Government was considering using our Armed forces to assist.Assume that would be for medical supplies and such like not supermarket products. If that's not a great example to demonstrate the system I should be getting used to then I don't know what is?
Ivan stewart said:
Bless em , calling for further immigration to solve labour shortages , best to look after your rich mates, and keep the lower orders in their place eh !!
Never mind silly things like training and re training or paying people properly just get another wave to trample them , must still work on the old if you keep em down poor and dependent they will vote labour .
They don't want the poor.Never mind silly things like training and re training or paying people properly just get another wave to trample them , must still work on the old if you keep em down poor and dependent they will vote labour .
How many working class people read the Guardian? None that I know.
rustednut said:
crankedup5 said:
Still the upside is they are. ost unlikely to find enough idiots to vote for them. 
That bit is true enough, as most on here have confirmed, they will vote again for what they have voted for before.crankedup5 said:
part of the brexit deal is for Sectors of industry who have labour shortages should advise Government of that situation. If it’s found that the labour shortage cannot be resolved with the existing labour resource (i.e. minimum wage and/or zero hour contracts) within the U.K then applications from ROW. will be assessed and visa’s provided to successful applicants.
Certainly offers a system of control which is what was promised as part of the brexit deal.
That’s how it is now, best get used to it.
Fixed that for you? Certainly offers a system of control which is what was promised as part of the brexit deal.
That’s how it is now, best get used to it.
(the USA is also suffering from a massive labour shortage, but companies are refusing to increase remuneration to fix it)
NRS said:
I've not seen the quotes or anything in question, but it does seem strange in a world where we are worried about growing inequality we ignore the impact of effectively increasing the workforce, which overall will mean wages can be held lower as there is more competition between workers for jobs, instead of between companies for workers.
(Just to make it clear, I've a middle-class lifestyle and a Brit living as an immigrant in Norway under the previous EU movement).
A lot of people like me (including many I know) blamed Brexit on stupid poor people who had no idea what they were voting for. The complete blindness to see that freedom of movement meant typically lower paid jobs could be filled by cheap workers from other parts of Europe keeps on surprising me. Yes, it works well for someone like me. But why would someone in a low paid job view something that allows cheap workers to compete with them for their supermarket job or mechanic job at the local garage to be a good thing for them? In addition, that's at the same time as more people puts pressure on housing supply and other demands. So it's nothing like being stupid or racist. It's being against something that makes their living costs go up, and holds back wages from rising more. It's not a surprise Labour keep getting smashed when they ignore this and think along the lines of neo-liberalism which basically prioritises companies more than workers in many ways.
(Of course the counter is that we need more workers to try and make some growth and/or need more workers to pay the big pension and health bomb of the boomers retiring, and since the current UK population would slowly be decreasing without migration it helps delay/smooth out the problem more... but it's never really talked about).
The problem with this logic is that it is fundamentally flawed. The economy just doesn't work the way people want it to. Just the same as the public purse is nothing like your own.(Just to make it clear, I've a middle-class lifestyle and a Brit living as an immigrant in Norway under the previous EU movement).
A lot of people like me (including many I know) blamed Brexit on stupid poor people who had no idea what they were voting for. The complete blindness to see that freedom of movement meant typically lower paid jobs could be filled by cheap workers from other parts of Europe keeps on surprising me. Yes, it works well for someone like me. But why would someone in a low paid job view something that allows cheap workers to compete with them for their supermarket job or mechanic job at the local garage to be a good thing for them? In addition, that's at the same time as more people puts pressure on housing supply and other demands. So it's nothing like being stupid or racist. It's being against something that makes their living costs go up, and holds back wages from rising more. It's not a surprise Labour keep getting smashed when they ignore this and think along the lines of neo-liberalism which basically prioritises companies more than workers in many ways.
(Of course the counter is that we need more workers to try and make some growth and/or need more workers to pay the big pension and health bomb of the boomers retiring, and since the current UK population would slowly be decreasing without migration it helps delay/smooth out the problem more... but it's never really talked about).
If you increase the wages of those in low-value-add jobs (of which we have many), how will those wages be paid?
The wage stagnation in the UK had nothing to do with the EU, and everything to do with the fanatically negligent response to the 2008/9 crisis. Nobody in their right mind was advocating austerity, yet that's what we got. Cutting back on Government spending just at the point at which the economy needed it the most to maintain momentum and prosperity.
In fact, it wasn't even stagnation - wages *fell* markedly. Did EU immigration accelerate at the same time? No.
dai1983 said:
Well the only recent story I can find is where Labour and industry figures are suggesting relaxing rules for foreign truck drivers while we are short. There's also some mention of food preperarion jobs too.
If that's not a great example to demonstrate the system I should be getting used to then I don't know what is?
If employer's are paying a decent wage and there is still a shortage then we can look at it, as a country. Decent wage being defined in the context of everything that comes with the job, hours, absence from home, etc, etc.If that's not a great example to demonstrate the system I should be getting used to then I don't know what is?
The fact that Labour cannot see this, despite being the supposed party set up to represent the working class, is the issue.
skwdenyer said:
The problem with this logic is that it is fundamentally flawed. The economy just doesn't work the way people want it to. Just the same as the public purse is nothing like your own.
If you increase the wages of those in low-value-add jobs (of which we have many), how will those wages be paid?
The wage stagnation in the UK had nothing to do with the EU, and everything to do with the fanatically negligent response to the 2008/9 crisis. Nobody in their right mind was advocating austerity, yet that's what we got. Cutting back on Government spending just at the point at which the economy needed it the most to maintain momentum and prosperity.
In fact, it wasn't even stagnation - wages *fell* markedly. Did EU immigration accelerate at the same time? No.
The economy is dynamic and new people working does generate additional demand. However this on aggregate and says nothing of the impact on individual sectors. On the whole FOM suppressed wage growth in many working class jobs and increased it in higher paid ones in the "knowledge economy". That is why Labour lost touch with their roots once they embraced open borders as they were backing a structure for the economy that inevitably meant stagnating living standards (at best) for most. If you increase the wages of those in low-value-add jobs (of which we have many), how will those wages be paid?
The wage stagnation in the UK had nothing to do with the EU, and everything to do with the fanatically negligent response to the 2008/9 crisis. Nobody in their right mind was advocating austerity, yet that's what we got. Cutting back on Government spending just at the point at which the economy needed it the most to maintain momentum and prosperity.
In fact, it wasn't even stagnation - wages *fell* markedly. Did EU immigration accelerate at the same time? No.
ChocolateFrog said:
Ivan stewart said:
Bless em , calling for further immigration to solve labour shortages , best to look after your rich mates, and keep the lower orders in their place eh !!
Never mind silly things like training and re training or paying people properly just get another wave to trample them , must still work on the old if you keep em down poor and dependent they will vote labour .
They don't want the poor.Never mind silly things like training and re training or paying people properly just get another wave to trample them , must still work on the old if you keep em down poor and dependent they will vote labour .
How many working class people read the Guardian? None that I know.
Part of the reason for stagnant wages and apparent labour shortages is the ridiculously overly generous ''in work'' benefits system, which plenty of people (immigrants and natives alike) fully exploit, choosing to work minimal hours and have their wages ''topped up'' by benefits, even when full time work is available to them.
mike74 said:
Part of the reason for stagnant wages and apparent labour shortages is the ridiculously overly generous ''in work'' benefits system, which plenty of people (immigrants and natives alike) fully exploit, choosing to work minimal hours and have their wages ''topped up'' by benefits, even when full time work is available to them.
Business owners you mean. Corporate welfare at its worst. The ones that pay minimum wage rather than descent wages.
sugerbear said:
Business owners you mean. Corporate welfare at its worst.
The ones that pay minimum wage rather than descent wages.
In work benefits are advantageous to and exploited by both the poverty pay employers and the workshy bennie seekers... all at the expense of full time working tax payers.The ones that pay minimum wage rather than descent wages.
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