Unused channel on TV transmitter
Discussion
I have fitted a HDMI to co-ax Freeview converter today, it takes a HDMI feed (in this case a CCTV system) and converts it to a standard HD aerial signal, so if you have a HD TV that can pick up BBC1 HD for example you can tune the TV in and it picks up the HDMI signal as a Freeview HD channel, usually on channel 800 or 801.
What you do to set it up is tell it to broadcast on an unused channel otherwise it will interfere with the existing channels. My problem is I can't find a free channel number to set it to, either its faulty or every channel seems to be in use.
We receive the TV signal from the Winter Hill transmitter and I have tried it on C43 which should be free but I've also tried other random ones. I know its along shot but does anyone know what UHF chanel is guaranteed free to try it on. It works perfectly if I unplug the outside aerial from the system, the mouse does have a horrendous lag though so I wouldn't recommend this system for anyone else though.
This is the unit in question.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Edision-HDMI-Modulator-Fu...
What you do to set it up is tell it to broadcast on an unused channel otherwise it will interfere with the existing channels. My problem is I can't find a free channel number to set it to, either its faulty or every channel seems to be in use.
We receive the TV signal from the Winter Hill transmitter and I have tried it on C43 which should be free but I've also tried other random ones. I know its along shot but does anyone know what UHF chanel is guaranteed free to try it on. It works perfectly if I unplug the outside aerial from the system, the mouse does have a horrendous lag though so I wouldn't recommend this system for anyone else though.
This is the unit in question.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Edision-HDMI-Modulator-Fu...
Winter Hill has LOADS of unused channels, there's only 7 in use. See the table here, https://www.aerialsandtv.com/knowledge/transmitter...
The example config file in the short config guide looks OK for you, in theory it should work out of the box. Might be worth checking you don't have a clash of PIDs with active freeview channels, that would confuse things.
https://www.edision.gr/en/detail/edision-hdmi-modu...
Beyond that, get in touch with the manufacturer, it looks like a well supported product.
The example config file in the short config guide looks OK for you, in theory it should work out of the box. Might be worth checking you don't have a clash of PIDs with active freeview channels, that would confuse things.
https://www.edision.gr/en/detail/edision-hdmi-modu...
Beyond that, get in touch with the manufacturer, it looks like a well supported product.
Winter Hill is now on Group A. But there are also some local Muxs on C21, 24, 27, 40. so you may have to miss them . C43 should be ok. Try C22. Set your programme number to 401.
Stick your postcode in here for details. https://www.freeview.co.uk/corporate/detailed-tran...
You may also get interference from Sutton Coldfield.
Stick your postcode in here for details. https://www.freeview.co.uk/corporate/detailed-tran...
You may also get interference from Sutton Coldfield.
Edited by megaphone on Wednesday 18th August 07:37
Edited by megaphone on Wednesday 18th August 07:38
Edited by megaphone on Wednesday 18th August 07:40
Do you have the coax input and output the right way round?* I originally had a Technomate encoder and had a problem with the signal disappearing when the aerial was plugged in as the connections were incorrectly labelled (it went back in the end as it simply wouldn't work reliably). I replaced it with the Edison which works perfectly. I use it to distribute Sky around the house.
There is around a second delay, this is because it needs to re-encode the signal with the new channel embedded. To get round this I split the HDMI output from the Sky box at the main TV so it receives the native signal.
The only things (I think) I changed on the encoder were the output channel (to 43 - I'm on the Crystal Palace transmitter), logical channel number (to 666) and channel name. Don't forget to save any changes afterwards.
* - ignore that, just walked away and realised how daft it sounds
That was probably due to an internal issue with the encoder 
There is around a second delay, this is because it needs to re-encode the signal with the new channel embedded. To get round this I split the HDMI output from the Sky box at the main TV so it receives the native signal.
The only things (I think) I changed on the encoder were the output channel (to 43 - I'm on the Crystal Palace transmitter), logical channel number (to 666) and channel name. Don't forget to save any changes afterwards.
* - ignore that, just walked away and realised how daft it sounds
That was probably due to an internal issue with the encoder Edited by Fore Left on Wednesday 18th August 08:05
Thanks for the replies, I've not been back to the job yet, hopefully will get there tomorrow.
It is strange though, I've seen similar charts to the ones posted and they all suggest C43 is free, I've fitted a couple of those units before hassle free and I'm sure I set them to 43 to get them to work.
Maybe it is faulty and stuck on one channel, seems strange that whatever I set it to it gets interference. Its not just interference either its an actual channel, you can see a picture behind the CCTV interface. When I first tuned it in it was some kind of home improvement show showing off a new bathroom and just for a split second I thought hello there's a secret camera on the system looking at the toilet.
It is strange though, I've seen similar charts to the ones posted and they all suggest C43 is free, I've fitted a couple of those units before hassle free and I'm sure I set them to 43 to get them to work.
Maybe it is faulty and stuck on one channel, seems strange that whatever I set it to it gets interference. Its not just interference either its an actual channel, you can see a picture behind the CCTV interface. When I first tuned it in it was some kind of home improvement show showing off a new bathroom and just for a split second I thought hello there's a secret camera on the system looking at the toilet.
OldGermanHeaps said:
The unit is probably faulty. If you are fitting these professionally you should have a dvb spectrum analyser to set the channel and output level and look for any spurious interference, plus any other issues with the install.
We don't do enough aerial work to warrant that sort of equipment, I've fitted 3 of these in the past 2 years and the two before them have worked perfectly.Personally I don't want to do the technical side of things like alarms and network/CCTV, I'd rather stick to just wiring sockets and lights but so many customers want you to do the full package now.
This job we have just done, all the sockets work, all the lights work but the alarm has problems (vipers wont respond), CCTV has issues with the HDMI, and the Sonos has decided to throw a fit.
But if we leave the other stuff to someone else the alarm and camera people just run their cables through the same holes as our 240V wiring, (amongst a s
t load of other rough arsed problems they cause)So you do a half arsed job of the av and security. Makes sense.
Why not partner with a professional, and stick to doing the electrics to a high standard and either first fix for a specialist, or just let them do the job properly.
Sick of going at the back of sparks who think they know everything with a wire on it, and set unreallistic customer pricing expectations.
I dont go offering people to rewire their kitchen and fit a new consumer unit while I am in fitting their alarm and cctv, and maybehave a go at the plumbing while I am at it.
Why not partner with a professional, and stick to doing the electrics to a high standard and either first fix for a specialist, or just let them do the job properly.
Sick of going at the back of sparks who think they know everything with a wire on it, and set unreallistic customer pricing expectations.
I dont go offering people to rewire their kitchen and fit a new consumer unit while I am in fitting their alarm and cctv, and maybehave a go at the plumbing while I am at it.
OldGermanHeaps said:
So you do a half arsed job of the av and security. Makes sense.
Why not partner with a professional, and stick to doing the electrics to a high standard and either first fix for a specialist, or just let them do the job properly.
Sick of going at the back of sparks who think they know everything with a wire on it, and set unreallistic customer pricing expectations.
I dont go offering people to rewire their kitchen and fit a new consumer unit while I am in fitting their alarm and cctv, and maybehave a go at the plumbing while I am at it.
I knew that was coming, every AV installer I have ever seen over the last 30 years has done a piss poor job of installing the cabling, electricians are the only ones that have any comprehension of zones/spacing/segregation etc to do with the wiring infrastructure. Why not partner with a professional, and stick to doing the electrics to a high standard and either first fix for a specialist, or just let them do the job properly.
Sick of going at the back of sparks who think they know everything with a wire on it, and set unreallistic customer pricing expectations.
I dont go offering people to rewire their kitchen and fit a new consumer unit while I am in fitting their alarm and cctv, and maybehave a go at the plumbing while I am at it.
We are only let down by the software side of things in order to do a complete job, have you seen what Texecom have done with the smart com app v2 for eg, its absolutely insane and will surely finish them off for good.
I was just thinking about your spectrum analyser post, we have instruments in the electrical industry too, Fluke do a £1500 multifunction test meter which amongst other functions tests the earth loop impedance. I can also test it by connecting a bulb across line and neutral, bright bulb=pass, dim bulb=fail, that's how it was always tested in the past and its just as valid today, bulb cost =80p.
I avoid texecom, they have always been plauged with firmware bugs, and the radio gear is slow to program.
Why not partner with an av company?
We partner with 3 different sparks, sparks do all the electrics and first fix the av, cctv, security and data cabling, and we do the second fix and commissioning. Jobs get done to a high standard and everyone makes money.
To do the more techy side involves constant neverending training/learning, and quite a different mindset and skill set and a large inverstment in expensive test equipment to do it properly, you know this deep down surely.
Every time I diy electrics I have a nagging feeling what I am doing is suboptimal but basically safe and functional, I bet you feel similar when operating outside your trade.
Those edision modulators dont last long in my experience, and the rf output on them can get messy, had one fail so badly it was affecting the next door neighbours reception. Triax are much better and if you are buying them trade are similarly priced. Much shorter delay on the mouse too.
You can get a usable spectrum analyser for around £80.
Aerial and satellite guy preferred my £80 one to his £950 one and ordered one the next day. I'll check the model number tomorrow. Trying to work with rf blind is like trying to trace an electrical fault without a mulitimeter or volt stick.
In the analouge days you could wing it a bit easier, with digital the proper tools and the knowledge to use them is important.
Why not partner with an av company?
We partner with 3 different sparks, sparks do all the electrics and first fix the av, cctv, security and data cabling, and we do the second fix and commissioning. Jobs get done to a high standard and everyone makes money.
To do the more techy side involves constant neverending training/learning, and quite a different mindset and skill set and a large inverstment in expensive test equipment to do it properly, you know this deep down surely.
Every time I diy electrics I have a nagging feeling what I am doing is suboptimal but basically safe and functional, I bet you feel similar when operating outside your trade.
Those edision modulators dont last long in my experience, and the rf output on them can get messy, had one fail so badly it was affecting the next door neighbours reception. Triax are much better and if you are buying them trade are similarly priced. Much shorter delay on the mouse too.
You can get a usable spectrum analyser for around £80.
Aerial and satellite guy preferred my £80 one to his £950 one and ordered one the next day. I'll check the model number tomorrow. Trying to work with rf blind is like trying to trace an electrical fault without a mulitimeter or volt stick.
In the analouge days you could wing it a bit easier, with digital the proper tools and the knowledge to use them is important.
Edited by OldGermanHeaps on Wednesday 18th August 21:45
The main reason why I would never partner with an AV guy is because I would craw round lofts, under floors, drill 1000 joists, clip 1000 cables, get covered in st, loft insulation, mud, sweat and tears and go home stinking of st whilst the AV guy turns up in a shirt and tie, taps away on a laptop and makes 10 times what I would at the end of the day.
If an AV guy needs cables running in then he can do his own, you can't say that's the truth.
I get by doing the odd network/TV/alarm system to pay the bills but I will be certainly cutting down on that side of things from now on.
t, loft insulation, mud, sweat and tears and go home stinking of st whilst the AV guy turns up in a shirt and tie, taps away on a laptop and makes 10 times what I would at the end of the day.If an AV guy needs cables running in then he can do his own, you can't say that's the truth.
I get by doing the odd network/TV/alarm system to pay the bills but I will be certainly cutting down on that side of things from now on.
Are you sure it’s not a tv problem when tuning in.
I’ve not done one for a while but I seemed to remember manually adding the channel to the tv.
Something to do with the data the tv uses to tune in, it knows what to expect from the transmitter
and ignores channels that could be coming from another transmitter.
I’ve not done one for a while but I seemed to remember manually adding the channel to the tv.
Something to do with the data the tv uses to tune in, it knows what to expect from the transmitter
and ignores channels that could be coming from another transmitter.
Never got away with wearing a shirt, always got to be up ladders, under floors, up lofts, operating cherry pickers, telehandlers or diggers.
If the av guys around you are making 10x what you are then invest in the tools and training and up your prices. Up here the sparks are making a fortune.
When your customers ask you to quote non sparky work and they are comparing prices against specialists do you point out you are untrained and underequipped to do the job properly?
If the av guys around you are making 10x what you are then invest in the tools and training and up your prices. Up here the sparks are making a fortune.
When your customers ask you to quote non sparky work and they are comparing prices against specialists do you point out you are untrained and underequipped to do the job properly?
OldGermanHeaps said:
Never got away with wearing a shirt, always got to be up ladders, under floors, up lofts, operating cherry pickers, telehandlers or diggers.
If the av guys around you are making 10x what you are then invest in the tools and training and up your prices. Up here the sparks are making a fortune.
When your customers ask you to quote non sparky work and they are comparing prices against specialists do you point out you are untrained and underequipped to do the job properly?
How can you be under equipped to get a TV working? last week my business partner was off with covid so I had a 16 year old lad helping me instead, I showed him how to krone off a cat 5 module and after one go he did it correctly on several others of them, he couldn't however manage to mark out some downlights on a celling following a plan in metric. If the av guys around you are making 10x what you are then invest in the tools and training and up your prices. Up here the sparks are making a fortune.
When your customers ask you to quote non sparky work and they are comparing prices against specialists do you point out you are untrained and underequipped to do the job properly?
The only difference between me and an AV guy is an AV guy knows what's s
t.scottyp123 said:
The main reason why I would never partner with an AV guy is because I would craw round lofts, under floors, drill 1000 joists, clip 1000 cables, get covered in st, loft insulation, mud, sweat and tears and go home stinking of st whilst the AV guy turns up in a shirt and tie, taps away on a laptop and makes 10 times what I would at the end of the day.
If an AV guy needs cables running in then he can do his own, you can't say that's the truth.
I get by doing the odd network/TV/alarm system to pay the bills but I will be certainly cutting down on that side of things from now on.
And yet I see posts on spark groups saying they charge so much because they have learnt their trade, bought tools etc.t, loft insulation, mud, sweat and tears and go home stinking of st whilst the AV guy turns up in a shirt and tie, taps away on a laptop and makes 10 times what I would at the end of the day.If an AV guy needs cables running in then he can do his own, you can't say that's the truth.
I get by doing the odd network/TV/alarm system to pay the bills but I will be certainly cutting down on that side of things from now on.
The bloke on the laptop - also had to pay for the laptop, paid for the training and his van and doesn’t need to ask around on PH to solve his IT problems.
If you want to tap away on a laptop - buy one and learn the trade.
eliot said:
scottyp123 said:
The main reason why I would never partner with an AV guy is because I would craw round lofts, under floors, drill 1000 joists, clip 1000 cables, get covered in st, loft insulation, mud, sweat and tears and go home stinking of st whilst the AV guy turns up in a shirt and tie, taps away on a laptop and makes 10 times what I would at the end of the day.
If an AV guy needs cables running in then he can do his own, you can't say that's the truth.
I get by doing the odd network/TV/alarm system to pay the bills but I will be certainly cutting down on that side of things from now on.
And yet I see posts on spark groups saying they charge so much because they have learnt their trade, bought tools etc.t, loft insulation, mud, sweat and tears and go home stinking of st whilst the AV guy turns up in a shirt and tie, taps away on a laptop and makes 10 times what I would at the end of the day.If an AV guy needs cables running in then he can do his own, you can't say that's the truth.
I get by doing the odd network/TV/alarm system to pay the bills but I will be certainly cutting down on that side of things from now on.
The bloke on the laptop - also had to pay for the laptop, paid for the training and his van and doesn’t need to ask around on PH to solve his IT problems.
If you want to tap away on a laptop - buy one and learn the trade.
I can do most things an AV guy can do apart form solve problems but that's because an AV guy is solving problems every day of the week, by the time I've solved one problem another 20 have surfaced before I've done my next install, its not because I don't know what I'm doing.
scottyp123 said:
How can you be under equipped to get a TV working? last week my business partner was off with covid so I had a 16 year old lad helping me instead, I showed him how to krone off a cat 5 module and after one go he did it correctly on several others of them, he couldn't however manage to mark out some downlights on a celling following a plan in metric.
The only difference between me and an AV guy is an AV guy knows what's st.
You are under equipped because you dont have basic industry standard test equipment. I doubt you have the equipment to properly certify the data sockets you are fitting other than a simple continuity test, so there could be intermittent problems when passing a lot of traffic. You cant check the rf performance of tv equipment, you cant seem to get an alarm, modulator, sonos or cctv working properly once you start to hit problems, cue lots of guesswork and hoping blind luck sorts the issues long enough to get paid. The only difference between me and an AV guy is an AV guy knows what's s
t.If a plasterer taken a paid job to rewire someones house without the proper training and equipment and there were problems with the job and then went asking for help with it on a motoring forum I bet you would have something to say.
scottyp123 said:
I was just thinking about your spectrum analyser post, we have instruments in the electrical industry too, Fluke do a £1500 multifunction test meter which amongst other functions tests the earth loop impedance. I can also test it by connecting a bulb across line and neutral, bright bulb=pass, dim bulb=fail, that's how it was always tested in the past and its just as valid today, bulb cost =80p.
Perhaps try connecting between line and earth if you want to test earth loop impedance? quinny100 said:
scottyp123 said:
I was just thinking about your spectrum analyser post, we have instruments in the electrical industry too, Fluke do a £1500 multifunction test meter which amongst other functions tests the earth loop impedance. I can also test it by connecting a bulb across line and neutral, bright bulb=pass, dim bulb=fail, that's how it was always tested in the past and its just as valid today, bulb cost =80p.
Perhaps try connecting between line and earth if you want to test earth loop impedance? It just annoys me when aerial and sky "engineers" imply we should stick to electrics because things like aerial fitting and networking are a dark art best left to the experts. In a friends house currently he is too tight to pay for a patch panel and switch so I've got two ends of cat 5 cable twisted together in the loft for an access point in his bedroom, guess what it works perfectly, plug a laptop in and the speed is just as fast as plugging directly into the router, I'm sure a £10 tester will do me just fine for the domestic market.
Maybe if I was wiring a data centre then it might need a bit more thought but as far as a couple of Tv and networking points in someone house goes it doesn't need to be that critical. I got the alarm up and running as well today, I downloaded the out of date app (V1), got it working but blocked, then downloaded the V2 app and it migrates all the data across, it saves setting up an engineers cloud database that would be needed to add new V2 users apparently.
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