awd choices?

[brman]

So, another what car thread....

I am spending more of my time in the SW and finding our choice of cars (3 series estate and 1 series bmw) not great for devon lanes, especially the ones where the undergrowth touches in the middle and you cannot tell if there is actually any tarmac on the road!

So, I am thinking of replacing my E91 with something more suitable.

Criteria are:
- Aged between 2000 and 2010, less than 150k miles, preferably more like 100k.
IMHO that is the sweet spot for reliability vs complexity and I need something that can have an arguement with a devon hedge without upsetting me.

-AWD/4WD
Personally I reckon anything fwd with skinny tires will do the job fine but my A4 quattro saved my wife from a certain accident in snow and ever since she has been convinced she needs 4wd in snow. I have nothing against it so am not arguing with her. My only concern here is that I think my A4 had a fairly decent awd system (torsen diffs?). I don't know how school run, part time AWD, systems would compare.

-Decent suspension that will cope well with potholes and dirt tracks.
Even in the home counties our BMWs struggle here!

-Reasonably comfortable for 3 to 4 hour drives.
So no landrover defenders! I suspect anything mainstream in my age range will do, as long as the seat is reasonable supportive.

-a reasonably high driving position
So am assuming some sort of SUV.

-Reasonable amount of space
So preferably the same sort of luggage space as my E91, certainly bigger than the 1series.

-Not too big!
Yes, that conflicts with the space requirement but it would be nice (but not essential) that it fitted down devon lanes better than the E91. XC90s and the like are probably getting too big though.

So what I am really after is owner comments on how they think their vehicles fit the above criteria and any issues they have found.

Candidate so far are
- Honda CRV. Not seen any obvious issues, apart from they are generally driven by OAPs...
-Nissan X-trail. Tendency for wheelarches and rear strut towers to rust out?
-Nissan Qashqui (+2??). Supposed to be good with potholes? Compact but doesn't have the biggest of boots?
-Freelander2. Supposed to be class leading but I am not sure I can cope with fixing it all the time......
-X3. I have a suspicion the suspension will be too much like our current cars.
-Rav4, 5 door. I am struggling to find out how big the boot is but it would appear owners rate them?
-Forester/Outback. Slightly put off by engine issues and a suprising number appear to have rust issues.
-Outlander/C-Crosser/4007. Not seen so many user reviews but on paper look ok.

So, comments? what have I missed? Oh, and preferable £2k to £3k but I would not complain about going to £5k if I though it really suited and would last.
btw. the aim of this is to narrow down my choice so please don't start side tracking me with Alfas and Porsches etc

[SAS Tom]

Not sure what you think to the size but I’ll recommend the Lexus RX300/350. You’ll get one in budget, fits your criteria apart from you’ll maybe say it’s too big.

Proper full time 4wd, it’s based on the Camry platform so more like a car and about as reliable as it gets. Really comfortable, loads of space and plenty of kit. Fuel economy isn’t great if that’s a concern.

[brman]

SAS Tom said:

Not sure what you think to the size but I’ll recommend the Lexus RX300/350. You’ll get one in budget, fits your criteria apart from you’ll maybe say it’s too big.

Proper full time 4wd, it’s based on the Camry platform so more like a car and about as reliable as it gets. Really comfortable, loads of space and plenty of kit. Fuel economy isn’t great if that’s a concern.

Well, I did say I wanted to narrow down the choices, not increase them. However....... I do happen to have Rx300 saved on autotrader at the moment
As you say, the size is a little big and the fuel consumption is terrible but it is still tempting.

[ZX10R NIN]

I know you didn't want an addition but you have an omission from your list & that's the Ford Kuga, you can get them with sensible miles & good spec (Titanium) for your budget.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202107014...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202108146...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202105212...

If you don't mind a Category car then this one looks okay:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202107014...

One of those or a Freelander2 would be my pick, you won't be working on it every week just maybe every forth

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202108126...

At the top of your budget you can get some nice options.

XC60 D5

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202011226...

Q5 SE 170

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202107215...

Leftfield

Vauxhall Mokka it's compact

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202104261...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202012177...

[ChattingWham]

My brother used to have a Qashqai+2, it was alright but not really a 4x4 in any way. I'm not sure many Qashqais have 4WD to be honest. It's a chunky hatchback really.

My other thought would be a Suzuki Grand Vitara 5d. They're not the most refined on motorways etc but they're OK, and would definitely do the lanes job for you. Tough things. They're also a bit narrower than other SUVs/4x4s so might feel a touch more manoeuvrable. You'd probably get a 2006, 2007 or 2008 one in a decent spec and with relatively low miles for four or five grand. There's a 2.0 and a 2.4 petrol and a 1.9 diesel.

There's also a relatively high concentration of Suzuki (and Subaru, actually) dealers and specialists in Devon so you'd likely find someone near to you who knows about servicing them and so on.

[brman]

ZX10R NIN said:

I know you didn't want an addition but you have an omission from your list & that's the Ford Kuga, you can get them with sensible miles & good spec (Titanium) for your budget.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202107014...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202108146...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202105212...

If you don't mind a Category car then this one looks okay:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202107014...

One of those or a Freelander2 would be my pick, you won't be working on it every week just maybe every forth

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202108126...

At the top of your budget you can get some nice options.

XC60 D5

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202011226...

Q5 SE 170

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202107215...

Leftfield

Vauxhall Mokka it's compact

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202104261...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202012177...

Thanks, but none of those really grab me. Kuga has a small boot (plus I find its ride very jiggly on rough roads), XC60 and Q5 are a bit too expensive. I would have to go for the cheapest around which is never a good sign. Mokka is also I think too small.

[brman]

ChattingWham said:

My brother used to have a Qashqai+2, it was alright but not really a 4x4 in any way. I'm not sure many Qashqais have 4WD to be honest. It's a chunky hatchback really.

My other thought would be a Suzuki Grand Vitara 5d. They're not the most refined on motorways etc but they're OK, and would definitely do the lanes job for you. Tough things. They're also a bit narrower than other SUVs/4x4s so might feel a touch more manoeuvrable. You'd probably get a 2006, 2007 or 2008 one in a decent spec and with relatively low miles for four or five grand. There's a 2.0 and a 2.4 petrol and a 1.9 diesel.

There's also a relatively high concentration of Suzuki (and Subaru, actually) dealers and specialists in Devon so you'd likely find someone near to you who knows about servicing them and so on.

Good feedback, thanks. As you say, a lot of Qashqais are 2wd but there are awd ones around. I was mainly drawn to them as they have a reputation for handling rough roads well.

I don't know why I didn't consider the Suzuki. Boot is a little small but perhaps that is a good compromise vs overall size. Plus, like you say, should do the lanes well.
I will add that to my list

[A500leroy]

suzuki swift 4x4 and panda 4x4

[cayman-black]

Are they any good those Kugas ZX ? seem good value.

[2wheelsjimmy]

I just bought an outback. Love it.

[Volvolover]

Just use the correct tyres and most cars on sale will cope just fine

[brman]

A500leroy said:

suzuki swift 4x4 and panda 4x4

I would love both, but too small unfortunately....

[brman]

cayman-black said:

Are they any good those Kugas ZX ? seem good value.

They do. I guess I should not dismiss them. A mate has one (2wd though) so maybe I will have a proper look at it.

[brman]

2wheelsjimmy said:

I just bought an outback. Love it.

What age? A couple I looked at were scabby underneath which put me off. Plus there are so many complaints of head gaskets on the net, although I find it hard to work out which specific engines have the problem.
I have to admit that, if it was not for that, it looks like a pretty ideal choice - not too far from what I have already but a bit more rugged and track capable.

[brman]

Volvolover said:

Just use the correct tyres and most cars on sale will cope just fine

Well sort of
Both our current BMWs will cope with 90% of the roads. But neither are comfortable on rough roads. Plus the low seating position does make visibility poor. My wife does get a bit stressed on devon hump back bridges when all she can see in front of the A-pillar is sky
They are also not great when trying to squeeze into passing places (generally past tourist who think their car is 2 foot wider than it actually is!) as it is hard to judge the corners within an inch without occasionally hitting something hard. This is part of my reluctance to bigger, more expensive, cars. If it gets a few battle scars from rocks hiding in the hedge then I don't want to be stressed about it.

If I actually lived there and did not do long distances then I would just get a small hatchback and put decent tyres on it. But that is not really an option.

This is why I was orginally looking at something like an older x-trail. Fairly square and narrow but still has decent space and is supposed to be decentish to drive and a reasonably capable awd system. Got slightly put off though by all the old ones having rusting out rear wheel arches and strut towers.

[ninjag]

Bear in mind a lot of AWD cars (such as the Honda CRV) still have open diffs at the front and rear, so you still need to have traction with both wheels on at least one of the axles.

This could be important if you are on narrow lanes and roads where you move to the left to make space. If these nearside wheels go off-road and lose traction then you will end up stuck even though your off-side wheels are still on the tarmac because of the path of least resistance effect. If it's a car which can also use the individual brakes to effectively simulate a limited slip diff then you will be ok (such as x-drive I believe).

If you want AWD across an axle then you either need a locking diff, a limited slip diff or a system which uses the individual brakes to counter the path of least resistance effect.

[Pica-Pica]

My wife’s Skoda Fabia is narrow, but ample room for four adults, and shod with Vredestein Quatrac 5s should cope (or you could swap at winter time). 7 years old, so thorn scratches don’t matter, the 1.2 TSi engine has good low rev torque delivery. Journalists always say ‘a dull cabin’, but pretty much scratch-proof, scuff-proof, rattle-free, and reflection-free. The choice for narrow lanes here in North Wales. You will be surprised at the room inside, and the visibility to each corner.

[2wheelsjimmy]

brman said:

What age? A couple I looked at were scabby underneath which put me off. Plus there are so many complaints of head gaskets on the net, although I find it hard to work out which specific engines have the problem.
I have to admit that, if it was not for that, it looks like a pretty ideal choice - not too far from what I have already but a bit more rugged and track capable.

2005 gen 4 3.0. I am not in UK so road tax not such an issue fuel a bit cheaper too. My understanding was the 3.0 is damn reliable with timing chain too. Subaruoutback.org a great choice. Mine is a bit cosmetically challanged but that suits me, I can treat it like st.

[Volvolover]

Pica-Pica said:

My wife’s Skoda Fabia is narrow, but ample room for four adults, and shod with Vredestein Quatrac 5s should cope (or you could swap at winter time). 7 years old, so thorn scratches don’t matter, the 1.2 TSi engine has good low rev torque delivery. Journalists always say ‘a dull cabin’, but pretty much scratch-proof, scuff-proof, rattle-free, and reflection-free. The choice for narrow lanes here in North Wales. You will be surprised at the room inside, and the visibility to each corner.

This

I’ve done so many miles round the lanes in Cornwall and something like that would be great. It’s the tyres that will make the difference. Awd on summers will still be ropey

Ps. I’m impressed yours doesn’t have the lower dashboard rattle that all our fabias have had in some form! Great cars though

[Pica-Pica]

Volvolover said:

Pica-Pica said:

My wife’s Skoda Fabia is narrow, but ample room for four adults, and shod with Vredestein Quatrac 5s should cope (or you could swap at winter time). 7 years old, so thorn scratches don’t matter, the 1.2 TSi engine has good low rev torque delivery. Journalists always say ‘a dull cabin’, but pretty much scratch-proof, scuff-proof, rattle-free, and reflection-free. The choice for narrow lanes here in North Wales. You will be surprised at the room inside, and the visibility to each corner.

This

I’ve done so many miles round the lanes in Cornwall and something like that would be great. It’s the tyres that will make the difference. Awd on summers will still be ropey

Ps. I’m impressed yours doesn’t have the lower dashboard rattle that all our fabias have had in some form! Great cars though

No, no rattles (as a passenger, I love the two glove boxes, upper and lower). The 1.2 TSi is a great engine. As a bonus there is a full size spare wheel well.