Discussion
Driving down what I thought was a 30 limit I noticed a side turning into a minor residential road had a '30' sign. 'Maybe it's a 40' I thought, but the next side turning into a similar road had no sign.
Apparently the road I was on used to be a 40 but changed to 30 recently. So the sign on the side turning is incorrect. Limits without correct signage are legally unenforceable, but in this case it's the limit in the side road that's incorrectly signed and the relatively major road that is liable to have confused drivers on it. Are there any legal ramifications of that signage?
Apparently the road I was on used to be a 40 but changed to 30 recently. So the sign on the side turning is incorrect. Limits without correct signage are legally unenforceable, but in this case it's the limit in the side road that's incorrectly signed and the relatively major road that is liable to have confused drivers on it. Are there any legal ramifications of that signage?
I suggest you take a second look. People (including me) often assume what a road should be, and don’t look for signs (I learnt to look when changing roads after a ‘used to 40 urban dual carriageway’ changed into a 30: got me a SAC for doing 37). That and the ‘turning signs round’ brigade - it seems to amuse them.
Pica-Pica said:
I suggest you take a second look. People (including me) often assume what a road should be, and don’t look for signs (I learnt to look when changing roads after a ‘used to 40 urban dual carriageway’ changed into a 30: got me a SAC for doing 37). That and the ‘turning signs round’ brigade - it seems to amuse them.
A few weeks ago my sat nav exploded and I cannot be bothered to buy a new one. What it has taught me is how bad (downright awful) I had become at not noticing signs, no doubt because unlike now I was not looking for them, just relying on the sat nav.Honestly, give it a go - it has got to the point I may well stick to 'natural' navigation as there is far, far more information out there than I realised and it is nice looking upwards and outwards rather than sideways to the nav then straight ahead.
Pica-Pica said:
I suggest you take a second look. People (including me) often assume what a road should be, and don’t look for signs (I learnt to look when changing roads after a ‘used to 40 urban dual carriageway’ changed into a 30: got me a SAC for doing 37). That and the ‘turning signs round’ brigade - it seems to amuse them.
It was the second look that caused my confusion. I was correct initially in thinking the road was a 30, then I saw the 30 limit sign on the side road and began to wonder.Limit signage when things get skewed is a nightmare. We've had a couple of instances in the county recently, at least the ones I know of, where temporary limits have been introduced for road works and then it's been all over the place when roadworks removed.
In both cases the screw up was identical, road with 50 limit, reduced to 30 during works. 50 signs at start covered with grey spray paint, temporary 30 signs placed, only some of the repeater signs grey sprayed, no 30 repeaters put up even though no street lighting. Signs at junctions to warn entering traffic a complete dog's breakfast. No idea what they were thinking of there.
End of roadworks, some of the 30 end limit signs removed, a few of the oversprayed signs cleaned, but by no means all. Upshot being that for about a month, depending upon from which direction you entered the stretch of road, you could quite genuinely think the limit was 30, 50 or NSL.
Problem appears to be as follows, contractor A is booked to do the works, contractor B is booked to do the signs based on the Temporary Traffic Order, which has start and end dates over a much longer interval than the works require just in case of difficulties. Contractor A completes work, starts removing their stuff, cones, barriers, signs, traffic lights etc. Some but not all of the limit signs get swept up in that leaving a dog's breakfast until the date for contractor B to come and clear up properly.
Come on council, it's not difficult.
In both cases the screw up was identical, road with 50 limit, reduced to 30 during works. 50 signs at start covered with grey spray paint, temporary 30 signs placed, only some of the repeater signs grey sprayed, no 30 repeaters put up even though no street lighting. Signs at junctions to warn entering traffic a complete dog's breakfast. No idea what they were thinking of there.
End of roadworks, some of the 30 end limit signs removed, a few of the oversprayed signs cleaned, but by no means all. Upshot being that for about a month, depending upon from which direction you entered the stretch of road, you could quite genuinely think the limit was 30, 50 or NSL.
Problem appears to be as follows, contractor A is booked to do the works, contractor B is booked to do the signs based on the Temporary Traffic Order, which has start and end dates over a much longer interval than the works require just in case of difficulties. Contractor A completes work, starts removing their stuff, cones, barriers, signs, traffic lights etc. Some but not all of the limit signs get swept up in that leaving a dog's breakfast until the date for contractor B to come and clear up properly.
Come on council, it's not difficult.
jondude said:
Pica-Pica said:
I suggest you take a second look. People (including me) often assume what a road should be, and don’t look for signs (I learnt to look when changing roads after a ‘used to 40 urban dual carriageway’ changed into a 30: got me a SAC for doing 37). That and the ‘turning signs round’ brigade - it seems to amuse them.
A few weeks ago my sat nav exploded and I cannot be bothered to buy a new one. What it has taught me is how bad (downright awful) I had become at not noticing signs, no doubt because unlike now I was not looking for them, just relying on the sat nav.Honestly, give it a go - it has got to the point I may well stick to 'natural' navigation as there is far, far more information out there than I realised and it is nice looking upwards and outwards rather than sideways to the nav then straight ahead.
Garvin said:
Around here I would contend that a lot of the limits are unenforceable as the signs are now buried within the undergrowth!
Only one sign needs to be visible, and the frequency of repeaters have been reduced. (another piece of information from the SAC - apparently to allow for the many 40, 50, 60 signs being nicked for birthday parties)Lost ranger said:
Driving down what I thought was a 30 limit I noticed a side turning into a minor residential road had a '30' sign. 'Maybe it's a 40' I thought, but the next side turning into a similar road had no sign.
Apparently the road I was on used to be a 40 but changed to 30 recently. So the sign on the side turning is incorrect. Limits without correct signage are legally unenforceable, but in this case it's the limit in the side road that's incorrectly signed and the relatively major road that is liable to have confused drivers on it. Are there any legal ramifications of that signage?
Apparently the road I was on used to be a 40 but changed to 30 recently. So the sign on the side turning is incorrect. Limits without correct signage are legally unenforceable, but in this case it's the limit in the side road that's incorrectly signed and the relatively major road that is liable to have confused drivers on it. Are there any legal ramifications of that signage?
Why is it incorrectly signed? The limit after the 30 sign is 30 so the sign is correct. It so happens that the limit before the sign is also 30. It's no different to a repeater and there are plenty of places, especially in rural areas, with 30 mph repeater signs to remind drivers that they're still in a village or in a 30 mph limit area.
Pica-Pica said:
Garvin said:
Around here I would contend that a lot of the limits are unenforceable as the signs are now buried within the undergrowth!
Only one sign needs to be visible, and the frequency of repeaters have been reduced. (another piece of information from the SAC - apparently to allow for the many 40, 50, 60 signs being nicked for birthday parties)Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff