Another ‘what car should I buy’ post…

[Adrally7]

Yep sorry, it is one of those threads again. But I would like some advice.
Currently got a Mondeo tdi estate, most sensible car I have ever needed to buy due to circumstances at the time. Now due to the London ULEZ expansion plus feeling it’s time for an upgrade I’d like to get something that’s a bit more exciting.

Budget (£12k tops) and running cost constraints allow for a fast car but not a really really fast car. Also I’ll be looking at higher mileages.
So far considering either Audi A4 avant s line, or if I can stretch the budget, an S4 avant - B8 non FL models.
Or a Skoda Octavia mk3 vrs estate (which I’d probably end up getting remapped).
Not keen on the Ford Focus st (small boot) or equivalent BMW 3 series touring (missus not keen), but willing to be convinced.

Car would do 20 miles a day commuting to work. 50 miles at weekends karting family around. And would like it to be good on motorways for long hauls.
Basically I’d like the car to be a fast estate, good to drive and reasonably comfortable but won’t cost the earth to run (fuel, tyres and servicing wise).
My main concerns about the Audi A4/S4 is the ride quality and the cost of servicing especially if it goes badly wrong. And my concerns about the Octavia is noise levels. I’ve heard owners complain about this. Plus as a side note about the Vrs, is a stage 1 remap just going to spin the front wheels endlessly? Can it put that power down?

Anyway anyone with experience of these cars or have alternatives that I’ve not considered I’d appreciate some input.
Thanks.

[ZX10R NIN]

The Octavia's do have high NVH levels, personally there are two cars I'd be looking at but both are hard to find in estate form:

First is the Mondeo in Titanium 240 spec preferably with the XPack they're the best FWD steer in class & a very nice place to be with low NVH levels:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202108106...

Second & the true performance option is the Insignia VXR, you'll have to haggle & stretch the budget but these are a very good steer with S4 levels of performance, as well as being a bit rarer than later:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202104050...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202108206...

Whilst still having Vauxhall running costs they will still cost more to run than the Mondeo because of extra hardware but they'll cost less than an S4 to run.

[georgeyboy12345]

Here's an Audi S4 with 400 bhp
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202107275...


Subaru Legacy 3.0 R Spec B
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202102108...


Volvo V70 2.5T
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202108126...


Or, how about this famous star of the high mile club from a few weeks back? It's seriously cheap, you can use the money you saved as a slush fund to keep it running
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202108136...

https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-spottedykywt/v...


Staying on the theme of cop cars, what about this Vauxhall Insignia VXR ex-CID car? This one is just around the corner from where I live, lets call it an interesting area of Manchester
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202102088...

[Adrally7]

Thanks for the responses. The Vauxhall and the Volvo are great cars and well within budget to buy but the running costs are just that bit high. I definitely prefer the Audi S4 as running costs seem slightly cheaper from what I can see yet has impressive performance over the other cars. And the Mondeo is great but I was hoping to move away from Mondeo’s. Just fancy something different.
Regarding the S4 I know I said above running costs seem cheaper (around £340 tax/year) for example. I’m just worried about cost if servicing and parts. Is it true the engine needs to be lifted out of these cars just to change belts and other things!? ££££s in costs? That scares me! My wife would be well pissed with me if we had a huge repair bill into the thousands! Hence the swinging towards Skoda Octavia VRS. Got a soft spot for these. Had a Fabia VRs back in the day. Loved it.
Anyway does anybody know what these cars are like to live with daily?

[ahenners]

Adrally7 said:

Hence the swinging towards Skoda Octavia VRS. Got a soft spot for these. Had a Fabia VRs back in the day. Loved it.
Anyway does anybody know what these cars are like to live with daily?

I've had a 63 plate Octavia VRS (pre facelift MK3) petrol with DSG for nearly 5 years now. Bought at 3 years approved used. It's been excellent, practical and handled family duties with 2 small kids well. Goes quick enough, relatively cheap to service and run and more importantly not a single thing has gone wrong in the 60k I've put on it in that time. It's not the last word in excitement or engagement but it's decent enough for a do it all car. The main issues I have are the paint seems a bit soft, front end is battered in stone chips (my mileage is mostly motorway) and a fair bit of road noise does enter the cabin, especially if it's a rougher surface. Try and find one with a few decent options ticked, early ones especially can be a bit Spartan imo as standard.

[Richiepg25]

Hi I had a mk3 octavia VRS estate for 5 years I bought it at a year and a half old, was great car give me no hassle whats so ever, although I started to notice their wasnt much room in the back when a child seat was fitted and the road noise really got to me on a long drive. Maybe the mk4 is better I just steered away from skoda after the mk3 as I thought they became to expensive to purchase, then again everything in my eyes is too expensive at the minute.

Edited by Richiepg25 on Monday 23 August 20:49

[Richiepg25]

Sorry my car was a mk3, just noticed I said mk2

[ahenners]

Richiepg25 said:

Sorry my car was a mk3, just noticed I said mk2

There is an edit button

[Adrally7]

So seems like the Octavia mk3 is a good all rounder but just has this cabin noise. Might drive me nuts on long journeys. Do you guys know if the vrs is worth remapping? Can they put the power down?
That’s something about the S4 that I like. Grippy 4 wheel
drive and just over 5 secs to 60. But not sure if the S4 is good as a daily or good for long journeys?

[Richiepg25]

They are good cars, Yea cabin noise was pretty bad on the one I had, I drove a 2016 passatt 190 gt diesel estate for a while and the difference was night and day in cabin noise, the vw just felt alot better put together. As for the map mine was standard. I dont think they would compare with the 4 wheel drive S4 though.

[ZX10R NIN]

Adrally7 said:

Thanks for the responses. The Vauxhall and the Volvo are great cars and well within budget to buy but the running costs are just that bit high. I definitely prefer the Audi S4 as running costs seem slightly cheaper from what I can see yet has impressive performance over the other cars. And the Mondeo is great but I was hoping to move away from Mondeo’s. Just fancy something different.
Regarding the S4 I know I said above running costs seem cheaper (around £340 tax/year) for example. I’m just worried about cost if servicing and parts. Is it true the engine needs to be lifted out of these cars just to change belts and other things!? ££££s in costs? That scares me! My wife would be well pissed with me if we had a huge repair bill into the thousands! Hence the swinging towards Skoda Octavia VRS. Got a soft spot for these. Had a Fabia VRs back in the day. Loved it.
Anyway does anybody know what these cars are like to live with daily?

There's no way the S4's running costs are cheaper than the Vauxhall trust me I know the £240 extra you have to pay will be eaten up in running costs.

Why do you want to move away from a Mondeo but are happy to get a Skoda? As I said the VRS isn't as good a steer as the Mondeo but if you want the VRS then get one.

Oh & it'll have no issues putting the power down (remap or not) unless you're an oaf.

[ahenners]

Adrally7 said:

So seems like the Octavia mk3 is a good all rounder but just has this cabin noise. Might drive me nuts on long journeys. Do you guys know if the vrs is worth remapping? Can they put the power down?
That’s something about the S4 that I like. Grippy 4 wheel
drive and just over 5 secs to 60. But not sure if the S4 is good as a daily or good for long journeys?

Petrol VRS in the MK3 responds very well to a map, looking at 300ps or so from a map. However not especially easy to put the power down from a standing start, especially in the wet, on the move you'll have no worries and they are fairly light. An S4 would be just as good if not better as a daily and for long journeys, but with higher running costs. Would assume your budget gets a noticeably older generation and higher mileage S4 compared to an Octavia VRS though.

[MC Bodge]

I went from a Mk4 Mondeo estate to a non-VRS Mk3 Octavia estate.

I had taken a very wet test drive, but realised my mistake within two days. It was a big disappointment: steering, handling and traction (dry - terrible wheel hop,
wet - atrocious) were poor, brakes overheated and faded in enthusiastic, hilly driving.

NVH was awful -mine suffered from the (really annoying) chattering ride on anything other than the absolutely smoothest tarmac, harsh over any bump, and (grrrrrr) awful booming pressure/resonance issues. Wind noise was irritating. The Sat nav was fiddly. Materials inside weren't hardwearing.

It was horrible in town, suffered from wind noise on the motorway and wasn't composed on good driving roads.

The car really annoyed me.

I tried to improve it in a few ways, but gave up on it after a final disappointing experience of a trip to Snowdonia, having owned it for about 9 months.

I traded it for a Mk5 Mondeo estate, which is a vastly better and underrated car that is nimble for such a big car and drives very well empty and fully laden - more important to me than 0-60. My mate has a Tesla model S which makes an S4 look slow, I couldn't be bothered paying for the privilege of running a hard-riding Audi that probably won't steer nicely and isn't even that fast in a drag race nowadays.

Edited by MC Bodge on Tuesday 24th August 09:30

[ninjag]

Adrally7 said:

So seems like the Octavia mk3 is a good all rounder but just has this cabin noise. Might drive me nuts on long journeys. Do you guys know if the vrs is worth remapping? Can they put the power down?
That’s something about the S4 that I like. Grippy 4 wheel
drive and just over 5 secs to 60. But not sure if the S4 is good as a daily or good for long journeys?

S4 is a fun car to drive, good performance and also easy as a daily driver. The boot is decent and I think it's a pretty nice looking estate - quite subtle. They seem to hold their value well which is handy, but there are a few things to be aware of:


S4 B8 Avant Pros:

- Supercharged estate - pretty rare and off the top of my head the only other one I can think of is the very rare Jaguar XFR-S 5.0 V8 Sportbrake?
- No lag, immediate pull for overtaking and wide power bands thanks to the supercharger. Very addictive and fun.
- AWD System and Torque Vectoring provide near unlimited grip in dry and wet with good tyres on both corners and off the line
- Suspension is firm but also dampened (B8.5 further improved dampening)
- Fairly economical considering the performance (B8.5 further improved on this with the introduction of s/c electromagnetic clutch and also MPI)
- Nice exhaust note (pull the stupid soundaktor fuse out)
- Infotainment system is pretty good
- Routine maintenance is surprisingly easy and fairly inexpensive
- Very little rust thanks to the copious use of aluminium


Cons

- You really want the B8.5 CREC engine but they cost a fair bit more
- Carbon build up of the valves can be a problem and eventually require cleaning (not an issue with the CREC engine)
- Steering isn't the sharpest at lower speeds due to the engine sitting forward of the front axle making it a little nose heavy.
- Timing chain replacement is an engine out job but it's usually pretty high mileage and you can hear the guides get noisy when due to replace
- There are additional maintenance requirements:
...- Auxiliary and Supercharger belts due at 60k miles (front bumper needs to be put into service mode for this)
...- DSG fluid every 38k miles (easy to do yourself but you need a scan tool to read fluid temperature)
...- Iridium Spark Plugs and giant cone air filter due at 60k miles (easy to do yourself)
...- Some suspension bushes tend to get tired at around 60k miles (seems a common thing)



The way I see it is that driving is becoming ever more expensive and restrictive, so time is running out to get yourself a little treat that makes you smile.

[RoVoFob]

Adrally7 said:

So seems like the Octavia mk3 is a good all rounder but just has this cabin noise. Might drive me nuts on long journeys. Do you guys know if the vrs is worth remapping? Can they put the power down?
That’s something about the S4 that I like. Grippy 4 wheel
drive and just over 5 secs to 60. But not sure if the S4 is good as a daily or good for long journeys?

This could be a handy thread for you on living with the S4:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

Chris Harris also has three or four S4 B8 videos on YouTube that you might want to check out, too; one remapping his old one, one driving it back to back with a Cayman, then another with a facelift model comparing the similarities to a Bentley Continental GT.

Think the B8 S4 is pretty highly rated for refinement and comfort compared with many sporty Audis that can have overly firm suspension and enormous alloys.

[Shifter1]

Nice spec Mercedes C-Class?

Lexus?

Giulia is also a nice option but above your budget.

[ZX10R NIN]

So OP have you narrowed down your options?

[Raddors]

OP there's a fairly active B8 S4 ownership thread on here. Lots of chat about the preventative stuff and costs involved. Big stuff like dsg oil change, pcv valve, thermostat, Supercharger belt and oil etc etc.

You'll want to look at these and budget accordingly if not already done.

[Adrally7]

Still got some thinking to do. Just doing more research. This will be probably be the only car purchase I’ll make for quite a few years so want it to be the right one.
Thanks for all the info and advice everyone.

[Adrally7]

So just an update on what I’m thinking. The insignia vxr looks great but the running costs are just way too much almost £600 a year compared to £180 or the Skoda. So you might be thinking why look at S4s as they are similar on fuel to the Vauxhall and still quite high tax…so I’m contemplating Audi A4 B8 instead. Much better runnin costs and as fast or faster than the vrs. But any good to drive? Anyone rate these?
Comfortable? (I’ve heard s lines have harsh ride?). Remappable?…in case I’d like bit extra poke?