Scary Moment in the Rain - Check your tyres
Discussion
Just wanted to post a cautionary tale, about having tyres that are in date and not being too enthusiastic in the wet:
Whilst accelerating away from a roundabout on a dual carriageway, I decided (very unwisely) to put the throttle about 80% down in third gear at about 40mph - my naïve thinking being that third was a tall enough gear, did not have any steering lock on and was going fast enough not to get out of shape. As the revs rapidly increased to around 4,0000 rpm, the car suddenly jinked 30 degrees to the left and send me hurtling into the verge. Applying opposite lock did nothing, there was zero steering after it jinked to the left. I managed to stop the car once it was on the verge but did have a few seconds of unwanted rallycross style action trying to do this. Miraculously there no damage to the car other than a lot of grass in the radiator!
On checking my tyres it turns out the rears are from 2011, and the fronts from 2004!
I now have a set of rainsports on order...
In spite of the fact that I was an idiot to put so much power on in the wet, and the tyres being way past their best, I am still trying to figure out how one second I was going straight ahead and the next, jinked 30 degree off course. The only thing I can think of is possibly one tyre spinning on a white line / very slippery patch and all the power going to the other rear tyre, causing a sudden jink to the left?
If anyone experienced anything similar or has any thoughts, please do reply
Whilst accelerating away from a roundabout on a dual carriageway, I decided (very unwisely) to put the throttle about 80% down in third gear at about 40mph - my naïve thinking being that third was a tall enough gear, did not have any steering lock on and was going fast enough not to get out of shape. As the revs rapidly increased to around 4,0000 rpm, the car suddenly jinked 30 degrees to the left and send me hurtling into the verge. Applying opposite lock did nothing, there was zero steering after it jinked to the left. I managed to stop the car once it was on the verge but did have a few seconds of unwanted rallycross style action trying to do this. Miraculously there no damage to the car other than a lot of grass in the radiator!
On checking my tyres it turns out the rears are from 2011, and the fronts from 2004!
I now have a set of rainsports on order...In spite of the fact that I was an idiot to put so much power on in the wet, and the tyres being way past their best, I am still trying to figure out how one second I was going straight ahead and the next, jinked 30 degree off course. The only thing I can think of is possibly one tyre spinning on a white line / very slippery patch and all the power going to the other rear tyre, causing a sudden jink to the left?
If anyone experienced anything similar or has any thoughts, please do reply
What shocks me is not that you left the road, but that presumably neither your mechanic, nor your MoT Examiner have mentioned to you SINCE 2010 that two ...and since 2017 that ALL... of your tyres were nearing/beyond the end of their useful life (generally accepted to be 5 to 6yrs) ...I note tyre age on the bill of every car I see! I consider it my duty to point it out, given that Joe Average motorist is so unaware of everything bar the cost if petrol.
But the fact that you, a car enthusiast and PHer, didn't know either... terrifying.
But the fact that you, a car enthusiast and PHer, didn't know either... terrifying.
TwinKam said:
What shocks me is not that you left the road, but that presumably neither your mechanic, nor your MoT Examiner have mentioned to you SINCE 2010 that two ...and since 2017 that ALL... of your tyres were nearing/beyond the end of their useful life (generally accepted to be 5 to 6yrs) ...I note tyre age on the bill of every car I see! I consider it my duty to point it out, given that Joe Average motorist is so unaware of everything bar the cost if petrol.
But the fact that you, a car enthusiast and PHer, didn't know either... terrifying.
This ^ and another good idea is not to use clogged throttle openings But the fact that you, a car enthusiast and PHer, didn't know either... terrifying.
you are striking through max torque with big throttle and your suprised 
many of these cars can break traction in the 1st three gears in damp conditions if induced , and even if not a man-hole cover or road marking for example can set things in motion , drive for conditions Cascade360 said:
You made me go check my tyres!
2019 on the rear, fine. 2016 on the front ... still plenty tread ... borderline? Suspect it is better they are on the front than the back ...
Front tyres are more important than the rear one (except on forklifts), this is link to your direction.2019 on the rear, fine. 2016 on the front ... still plenty tread ... borderline? Suspect it is better they are on the front than the back ...
However, our cars have huge turning ratio, when the rear slips, except pressing the clutch and waiting, there is not much to do, less spectacular but safer than trying to correct and being thrown on the opposite side.
Age of tyres and a light car.
Hardened off after mostly standing for years so they never reactivate once gone hard.
The simple thing you can do is go for a drive jump out and quickly feel if you have heat in your tyres.
I do this on every car I have only driven once but I was brought up around racing so it’s instinctive.
Heat is good
Cold is bad.
Pressures are critical.
And going by that theory whatever the temp is dry expect it to be considerably less when wet! Caution required.
Hardened off after mostly standing for years so they never reactivate once gone hard.
The simple thing you can do is go for a drive jump out and quickly feel if you have heat in your tyres.
I do this on every car I have only driven once but I was brought up around racing so it’s instinctive.
Heat is good
Cold is bad.
Pressures are critical.
And going by that theory whatever the temp is dry expect it to be considerably less when wet! Caution required.
Edited by Classic Chim on Tuesday 24th August 14:04
I've never understood the advice to use high gears .. ok i can see the point for people who have no interest in driving and have no finesse on the throttle, but as a sports car driver - and hopefully a bit more interested in driving than the average white goods car driver - you might find it more beneficial to use lower gears and smaller throttle inputs.
This does 2 things .. firstly if the wheels were to spin up then you have less throttle input to remove to reduce power, but also the control of the speed of the wheels is far more throttle accurate .. meaning that if you did get the wheels spinning you have far greater control of the rate of spin in a lower gear than a higher gear ..
the problem with high gears is that when the wheels do spin they spin very fast very quickly, and because of the high gear you are in you have little mechanical advantage for engine braking to reduce the wheel speed again once off the throttle .. meaning a heavy spider and tyre combination will not stop spinning quickly enough to regain traction before a very high slide angle is reached by which time it's too late - you won't then get the opposite lock off fast enough and the car will "highside" you the other way, especially if your tyres are like wood.
This does 2 things .. firstly if the wheels were to spin up then you have less throttle input to remove to reduce power, but also the control of the speed of the wheels is far more throttle accurate .. meaning that if you did get the wheels spinning you have far greater control of the rate of spin in a lower gear than a higher gear ..
the problem with high gears is that when the wheels do spin they spin very fast very quickly, and because of the high gear you are in you have little mechanical advantage for engine braking to reduce the wheel speed again once off the throttle .. meaning a heavy spider and tyre combination will not stop spinning quickly enough to regain traction before a very high slide angle is reached by which time it's too late - you won't then get the opposite lock off fast enough and the car will "highside" you the other way, especially if your tyres are like wood.
Cascade360 said:
You made me go check my tyres!
2019 on the rear, fine. 2016 on the front ... still plenty tread ... borderline? Suspect it is better they are on the front than the back ...
There's a big difference in a 2016 tyre that's lived everyday of its life outside and through 5 winters and one that's in a garage and comes out maybe 20 or 30 times a year in temperate conditions. 2019 on the rear, fine. 2016 on the front ... still plenty tread ... borderline? Suspect it is better they are on the front than the back ...
Roundabouts are notorious for diesel contamination ( especially after rain).
I got caught out a few times in my town.. . low speed but the car would just then understeer on two of the roundabouts.
One...by the Fire Station & the othe in the middle of a busy industrial estate.
( NB: It was only a few years ago that I was aware of the 5/6yr tyre limit. Apparently, ‘caravans’ seem to get overlooked... until it is too late.
I got caught out a few times in my town.. . low speed but the car would just then understeer on two of the roundabouts.
One...by the Fire Station & the othe in the middle of a busy industrial estate.
( NB: It was only a few years ago that I was aware of the 5/6yr tyre limit. Apparently, ‘caravans’ seem to get overlooked... until it is too late.
Edited by Milkyway on Tuesday 24th August 14:24
Edited by Milkyway on Tuesday 24th August 14:27
Edited by Milkyway on Tuesday 24th August 14:48
Zener said:
TwinKam said:
What shocks me is not that you left the road, but that presumably neither your mechanic, nor your MoT Examiner have mentioned to you SINCE 2010 that two ...and since 2017 that ALL... of your tyres were nearing/beyond the end of their useful life (generally accepted to be 5 to 6yrs) ...I note tyre age on the bill of every car I see! I consider it my duty to point it out, given that Joe Average motorist is so unaware of everything bar the cost if petrol.
But the fact that you, a car enthusiast and PHer, didn't know either... terrifying.
This ^ and another good idea is not to use clogged throttle openings But the fact that you, a car enthusiast and PHer, didn't know either... terrifying.
you are striking through max torque with big throttle and your suprised many of these cars can break traction in the 1st three gears in damp conditions if induced , and even if not a man-hole cover or road marking for example can set things in motion , drive for conditions I'm aware what I did was not smart and with hindsight can see that coupled with the tyre situation (I did not know about at the time) it was really daft - what I was surprised about was the sudden snap of the car. Every other car I have driven in the last 31 years (including cars with more power and torque than the TVR) has at least given some indication you were pushing too hard and a chance to back off / control things, whereas in the TVR one minute it was straight, the next heading to the verge.
Anyhow I'm happy to be the example fool
if it helps makes others aware so they dont do the same as me!Edited by phn on Tuesday 24th August 16:08
griffdude said:
Get the geo & tyre pressure checked. Plus age of tyres as the guys above say. 15 year old tyres should be in the bin.
You were lucky & learn from it, maybe go & try one of those skid pan days? Chimaeras & Griffs handle surprisingly well if you give them 1/2 a chance.
Good advice - once I have my new tyres I will book a skid pan day in.You were lucky & learn from it, maybe go & try one of those skid pan days? Chimaeras & Griffs handle surprisingly well if you give them 1/2 a chance.
I'm surprised more drivers don't check the age of their tyres! There's been a date code on them since the 1980s.
It's one of my initial checks on a used car, to see if it's an impending cost. I agree with the comment that its not just age, they break down with exposure to UV light. A heavily garaged vehicle will get better life out of tyres left outdoors all the time.
I bought a Chimaera in 2017 with 12 year old tyres on the front (and the wrong size 205/50) and 18 year old tyres on the rear. There'd been no mention of it at the MoT, they actually had tread but had 'gone off'
They were deadly. Nearly lost it driving the car home, and it's wasn't with much throttle either. I had the wheels refurbished and new Toyos all round shortly after buying it.
It's one of my initial checks on a used car, to see if it's an impending cost. I agree with the comment that its not just age, they break down with exposure to UV light. A heavily garaged vehicle will get better life out of tyres left outdoors all the time.
I bought a Chimaera in 2017 with 12 year old tyres on the front (and the wrong size 205/50) and 18 year old tyres on the rear. There'd been no mention of it at the MoT, they actually had tread but had 'gone off'
They were deadly. Nearly lost it driving the car home, and it's wasn't with much throttle either. I had the wheels refurbished and new Toyos all round shortly after buying it.This ^^^
The moral of the story is that everyone needs to take more responsibility for themselves... now I sound like my dad
...but it's a sadly lacking skill nowadays. In the eyes of the law you (as the driver) are responsible for the legality of your tyres even if you've borrowed or hired the car, or even been told to 'take the pool car'. And it's the second thing (after your eyesight) that 'they' check after an accident. Regrettably, there is no law regarding tyre age on private cars. One was recently enacted for PSVs, but it took a minibusful of lives to make it happen. It should have been across the board IMHO.
It infuriates me that the vast majority of drivers (based on my experience of being a garage owner for 40+ years) don't make regular checks on anything. Some may occadionally check tyre pressures (eg before a 'long run') but most are oblivious to tyre condition... if it's got tread, it's OK, isn't it?
If they choose to neglect their oil and coolant levels, fine, it's only their pocket they're going to impact. But other road users (as well as those that love and depend on them) can be literally impacted by drivers neglecting to make basic checks on the four bits that grip the road... if you don't check things like that when you first bring a 'new' car home, when exactly is it going to get done? ...the next service or MoT? ...is it an annual treat?
Come on, driving is a real privilege, and with it come certain responsibilities.
Here endeth the lesson. Amen.
The moral of the story is that everyone needs to take more responsibility for themselves... now I sound like my dad
...but it's a sadly lacking skill nowadays. In the eyes of the law you (as the driver) are responsible for the legality of your tyres even if you've borrowed or hired the car, or even been told to 'take the pool car'. And it's the second thing (after your eyesight) that 'they' check after an accident. Regrettably, there is no law regarding tyre age on private cars. One was recently enacted for PSVs, but it took a minibusful of lives to make it happen. It should have been across the board IMHO.It infuriates me that the vast majority of drivers (based on my experience of being a garage owner for 40+ years) don't make regular checks on anything. Some may occadionally check tyre pressures (eg before a 'long run') but most are oblivious to tyre condition... if it's got tread, it's OK, isn't it?
If they choose to neglect their oil and coolant levels, fine, it's only their pocket they're going to impact. But other road users (as well as those that love and depend on them) can be literally impacted by drivers neglecting to make basic checks on the four bits that grip the road... if you don't check things like that when you first bring a 'new' car home, when exactly is it going to get done? ...the next service or MoT? ...is it an annual treat?
Come on, driving is a real privilege, and with it come certain responsibilities.
Here endeth the lesson. Amen.
Edited by TwinKam on Tuesday 24th August 17:34
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