Discussion
On the contrary, I think the purists will be rejoicing (just like when the announcement of Miles' departure broke). Remember, driving dynamics are of little importance to the Aston Martin customer, so I expect there was confusion about what value Matt added.
Meanwhile, those of us who saw the bigger picture, see it as a massive blow. He brought a huge amount of experience and the current cars wouldn't have been as capable as they are without his input.
It's a great shame he's departing, I hope someone of equal talent can pick up where he left off.
Meanwhile, those of us who saw the bigger picture, see it as a massive blow. He brought a huge amount of experience and the current cars wouldn't have been as capable as they are without his input.
It's a great shame he's departing, I hope someone of equal talent can pick up where he left off.
I think it was a bit of a coup for AM to hire Matt in the first place after so long at Lotus and having one of the few "names" in UK automotive move on can't be good - especially combined with the number of other senior departures. It doesn't seem to be smooth sailing at McL either (they're not without their issues).
Makes me wonder whether the departures have common themes are around future technical direction/environment, new management style, general confidence in the business, or the upside offered to these people to hang around under the new ownership.
Makes me wonder whether the departures have common themes are around future technical direction/environment, new management style, general confidence in the business, or the upside offered to these people to hang around under the new ownership.
I wouldn’t say it’s a sinking ship, but it’s very sad news to read about the departure of Matt Becker. We don’t know the exact reasons behind this move, but to me it feels like a new manager coming in to a football team. Clear out the old (APs) crew leaving the door open to get your own people in. Could this possibly be hinting towards full MB ownership eventually? This topic has been discussed at length on here, but it may be the only option for the longer term future of AM, particularly with the ICE/Electrification issues approaching in a few years time.
Whatever is going on right now, Matts shoes will be difficult to fill.
Best Regards
Minglar
Whatever is going on right now, Matts shoes will be difficult to fill.
Best Regards
Minglar
NFC 85 Vette said:
On the contrary, I think the purists will be rejoicing (just like when the announcement of Miles' departure broke). Remember, driving dynamics are of little importance to the Aston Martin customer, so I expect there was confusion about what value Matt added.
Meanwhile, those of us who saw the bigger picture, see it as a massive blow. He brought a huge amount of experience and the current cars wouldn't have been as capable as they are without his input.
It's a great shame he's departing, I hope someone of equal talent can pick up where he left off.
Why would you think purists would rejoice about this Meanwhile, those of us who saw the bigger picture, see it as a massive blow. He brought a huge amount of experience and the current cars wouldn't have been as capable as they are without his input.
It's a great shame he's departing, I hope someone of equal talent can pick up where he left off.
I'm a purist. Driving dynamics are very important to me. You think that if one is a purist then he is incapable of seeing the "bigger picture"??? If he doesn't agree with the non-purist's bigger picture then he can't "see"? Remarkable.
Matt Becker is an extraordinary engineer and Aston was better for having him. His loss is seriously disconcerting.
Speedraser
“Why would you think purists would rejoice about this………”
You have taken it too literally. What NFC should really have said was the “PH purists” but I think there is a very large dollop of English sarcasm meant in that comment! Everyone on here who cares about AM and the future of the company knows full well that all of the recent departures are not good news at all.
Best Regards
Minglar
“Why would you think purists would rejoice about this………”
You have taken it too literally. What NFC should really have said was the “PH purists” but I think there is a very large dollop of English sarcasm meant in that comment! Everyone on here who cares about AM and the future of the company knows full well that all of the recent departures are not good news at all.
Best Regards
Minglar
KevinBird said:
"Chief Executive for Vehicle Attributes"One thing AP did seem very keen on was American style job title inflation...
Bear in mind that Moers criticised the Vantage handling in the interview he did around the time of the F1 edition going on sale. So "writing's on the wall" ...
Purely a guess, but Matt Becker was quite well known for his abilities at Lotus, although Lotus cars have always enjoyed a good reputation for handling.
The move to Aston Martin achieved even greater industry recognition for his capabilities, particularly in making a high riding square box, behave almost like a rally car.
Increased recognition must improve upward salary possibilities, so perhaps it was just an ideal moment from his point of view, to further progress his career.
truth is that the auto industry is in for the biggest shakeup since the stagecoach 's powertrain was changed from the horse to the internal combustion engine. the horse breeding industry vanished in short order, yet the stagecoach body builders have lived on, albeit in a new guise ("body by fisher" lived on for decades at ford) until this day. we are now seeing a similar process in powertrain evolution for a second time.
it's very possible that big name automobile manufacturer's with names that contain the word "motor" in them will die off too and only those with a word relating to electricity will remain. it wouldn't surprise me. the mindset of traditional automobile maker's executives cannot be changed quickly or drastically enough to compensate for those that are and will continue to be founded on people familiar with new technology. take tesla as an example.
having recently driven one, the most striking difference between it and a traditional car is not, as one might think, it's performance. no.... it's that it was designed as an advanced computer first and the wheels and interior were added later, as one might add a printer or monitor or keyboard.
OTOH, it's painfully obvious that traditional manufacturers are treating the electrification as an addon feature. big difference. i fear the old-boys will never really catch up.
it's very possible that big name automobile manufacturer's with names that contain the word "motor" in them will die off too and only those with a word relating to electricity will remain. it wouldn't surprise me. the mindset of traditional automobile maker's executives cannot be changed quickly or drastically enough to compensate for those that are and will continue to be founded on people familiar with new technology. take tesla as an example.
having recently driven one, the most striking difference between it and a traditional car is not, as one might think, it's performance. no.... it's that it was designed as an advanced computer first and the wheels and interior were added later, as one might add a printer or monitor or keyboard.
OTOH, it's painfully obvious that traditional manufacturers are treating the electrification as an addon feature. big difference. i fear the old-boys will never really catch up.
I'm not sure why folks are so sad to see these guys go. Aston's are not that great GT cars when it comes to driving dynamics. The current line is crap compared to Porsche & Ferrari. I hope Tobais gets the right folks to solve this as Aston is so far behind the competition. You go with who you know so likely it will be MB folks which leads to a MB corp structure takeover in long-term.
TheEnigma said:
I'm not sure why folks are so sad to see these guys go. Aston's are not that great GT cars when it comes to driving dynamics. The current line is crap compared to Porsche & Ferrari. I hope Tobais gets the right folks to solve this as Aston is so far behind the competition. You go with who you know so likely it will be MB folks which leads to a MB corp structure takeover in long-term.
Is this your first post on here ?
Your opinion is much appreciated by us ................. pip.............. brrrrrrrrrrrrr
Jon39 said:
Is this your first post on here ?
Your opinion is much appreciated by us ................. pip.............. brrrrrrrrrrrrr
Speedraser said:
Why would you think purists would rejoice about this
I'm a purist. Driving dynamics are very important to me. You think that if one is a purist then he is incapable of seeing the "bigger picture"??? If he doesn't agree with the non-purist's bigger picture then he can't "see"? Remarkable.
Matt Becker is an extraordinary engineer and Aston was better for having him. His loss is seriously disconcerting.
Don't worry, as a purist you just wouldn't understand.I'm a purist. Driving dynamics are very important to me. You think that if one is a purist then he is incapable of seeing the "bigger picture"??? If he doesn't agree with the non-purist's bigger picture then he can't "see"? Remarkable.
Matt Becker is an extraordinary engineer and Aston was better for having him. His loss is seriously disconcerting.
That is why NFC is wasting his time with his regular attempts to educate those silly purists with his (vastly superior) avant-garde, non-conformist ideas, but God love him for giving it a go every other post!
I'll try to help him out now (but Lord knows I'll probably screw things up since I might have posted one or two things in the past that mark me out as a purist):
- the world is black and white. There are no shades of gray; you are either in NFC's camp (read: you are correct) or you are the polar opposite; the latter category includes: having an opinion and liking Gen1 more than Gen2 Gaydon Astons
- if you're not in NFC's camp, you are myopic, obsessed with minutiae and incapable of seeing the forest for the trees
- if you're not in NFC's camp, and in particular if you are not fond of AMG, you are a Luddite and cannot countenance progress
- if you're not in NFC's camp, you are shallow, styling-obsessed, and wouldn't know a double wishbone from a transverse leaf spring (sorry, that's probably not the best analogy since he has 'Vette' in his name)
- if you're not in NFC's camp, you are a nasty person who hates everyone working at Aston Martin and would be happy to see them put in the stocks and pelted with rancid eggs
Are you starting to see the folly of your ways?
JohnG1 said:
KevinBird said:
"Chief Executive for Vehicle Attributes"One thing AP did seem very keen on was American style job title inflation...
Bear in mind that Moers criticised the Vantage handling in the interview he did around the time of the F1 edition going on sale. So "writing's on the wall" ...
geresey said:
That was my first reading, the new broom is having a bit of a clear out. Rightly or wrongly (and I don't know anything about how good or not they are) this has all the hallmarks of a classic change of mgt, at least in US companies. Bringing in people they already have lined up and/or just encouraging those they don't like to find something else (and that could be for ANY reason!!)
I wonder if Tobias Moers thinks the Gaydon factory is rather quaint ?
Perhaps more like a museum of times gone by, when car making was a skilled human craft.
I am only saying this, after watching a film showing how Mercedes cars are assembled.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qlguwy9JMSA
Remarkable just how automated the whole process has become. Hardly a human in sight.
The robots are working in teams, passing vehicle components from one robot to the next. Amazing.
Initial huge capital expenditure, but shrinks the future wage cost of course.
hueyhoolihan said:
OTOH, it's painfully obvious that traditional manufacturers are treating the electrification as an addon feature. big difference. i fear the old-boys will never really catch up.
I disagree. For me, one of the most striking things about Tesla's cars is that despite starting with a completely clean sheet (they didn't have any brand associated design features they had to keep, they didn't have to design a vehicle capable of taking an ICE, an exhaust, a petrol tank, etc) when they came up with their first mainstream production vehicle (model S) they presented an anonymous looking car that had the same basic design features of almost every 4 door ICE powered saloon ever madeYou would think considering they had so few constraints compared to when any of the established players design a car, they would come up with something more innovative in the way of general layout & design
And that's before we get to the styling which is just so incredibly bland. And the quality/touch of the interior which for a £60-100k car is appalling
The only advantages Tesla seemed to have over their competitors was general battery/ev know how and giant touch screens
Now everyone is offering giant touchscreens
At the rate they are going, I just cannot imagine who will be buying a tesla over the future offerings from the big german players in a few years time unless tesla are able to offer a significantly superior experience when it comes to charging infrastructure. They certainly are offering an inferior experience when it comes to the dealerships and that's saying something given the drop in quality of car dealership service by many of the big players
jonby said:
I disagree. For me, one of the most striking things about Tesla's cars is that despite starting with a completely clean sheet (they didn't have any brand associated design features they had to keep, they didn't have to design a vehicle capable of taking an ICE, an exhaust, a petrol tank, etc) when they came up with their first mainstream production vehicle (model S) they presented an anonymous looking car that had the same basic design features of almost every 4 door ICE powered saloon ever made
Yes Jonby, it was as if Tesla wanted people to think it was a conventional car.
At least the stillborn Lagonda concept acknowledged the absence of bulky mechanicals and the design therefore made use of the extra space for occupants.
There are numerous examples of the first mover, not becoming the eventual winner.
Sony Betamax
Nokia Mobile phones
BlackBerry
Netscape
Atari
Competition is now gathering pace, so it will be interesting to see what happens.
At present it is a playground for the wealthy. People look at the electronics world and say soon electric cars will be as cheap as existing cars. That is not a certainty at all, because a majority cost are batteries and they contain expensive metals, which are commodities traded in the same way as any other raw material. eg. When copper prices rise in the world market, the cost of batteries increases.
jonby said:
At the rate they are going, I just cannot imagine who will be buying a tesla over the future offerings from the big german players in a few years time unless tesla are able to offer a significantly superior experience when it comes to charging infrastructure. They certainly are offering an inferior experience when it comes to the dealerships and that's saying something given the drop in quality of car dealership service by many of the big players
I've said this before and been shot down by the Musketeers. At the moment you can tickle 5 miles / kw from the Model 3, with a tail wind and 22 degrees. Audi are struggling to get near 3. In the short term, its a big advantage. If we get solid state batteries in the next 5 years, nobody will care about that, range will be doubled and charge speed reduced. I'm not sure how Tesla can stay ahead of that.Gassing Station | Aston Martin | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff