Discussion
I had no idea they were so high and typically pegged to the Estate value.
Three weeks ago a buddy of mine died in his 40's. His wife just called me to ask me whether the quote was reasonable. I couldn't say anything other than holy sheet. He was lucky enough to have done well for himself. I'm guessing but at least 3m, maybe more in property and stocks. Lawyers quoting £15k fixed+ 2% of the estate value+vat. 80k? I really can't get my head around that.
In my mind it's just a lot of form filing and dealing with various banks, pension funds etc.
Three weeks ago a buddy of mine died in his 40's. His wife just called me to ask me whether the quote was reasonable. I couldn't say anything other than holy sheet. He was lucky enough to have done well for himself. I'm guessing but at least 3m, maybe more in property and stocks. Lawyers quoting £15k fixed+ 2% of the estate value+vat. 80k? I really can't get my head around that.
In my mind it's just a lot of form filing and dealing with various banks, pension funds etc.
I have one piece of experience to quote. When my Mum passed, the estate needed dealing with and I asked the solicitors who did the house sale stuff. They quoted me a percentage, and I like you I worked out it was going to come to some huge sum of money, although I don't recall how much. The sort of number you mention I think.
I decided to do it myself and it only took me a few hours of paperwork to do, once I'd worked out where all the savings are. Some time later I spoke to the solicitor who realised that they didn't ask the size of the estate, and he said "I'm sorry you were quoted the fixed percentage, you must have thought we'd charge you £xxk."
So I'd say call them, tell them the approx size of the estate and get a price. You can shop around of course, but I'd say do it yourself.
I decided to do it myself and it only took me a few hours of paperwork to do, once I'd worked out where all the savings are. Some time later I spoke to the solicitor who realised that they didn't ask the size of the estate, and he said "I'm sorry you were quoted the fixed percentage, you must have thought we'd charge you £xxk."
So I'd say call them, tell them the approx size of the estate and get a price. You can shop around of course, but I'd say do it yourself.
Simpo Two said:
Some Estates will be more complex than others, but when I had to sort one out my accountant (a friend of 30 years) did it for £300. It didn't seem dissimilar to a tax return, and I did the finance part.
It's a racket. A complete file with every asset, account, you name it has been prepared by the family and cross references to a spreadsheet. It's just properties, cash, ISA, pension, cars and personal effects.I'm a named executor for 3 estates- i will be doing it all myself now that I know the cost
OP,
You have titled this thread Probate Fees. As at now, the fixed fee for an estate over £5000 is £215.
I think you have confused probate fee with the cost of administering an estate including getting probate.
I have acted as executor n maybe 6-7 of our family's estates, many with multiple asset forms. Done all the work myself but used a solicitor to deal with the sale of a house when relevant. Probably saved £000s and not difficult if you have a plan and stick to it..
R.
You have titled this thread Probate Fees. As at now, the fixed fee for an estate over £5000 is £215.
I think you have confused probate fee with the cost of administering an estate including getting probate.
I have acted as executor n maybe 6-7 of our family's estates, many with multiple asset forms. Done all the work myself but used a solicitor to deal with the sale of a house when relevant. Probably saved £000s and not difficult if you have a plan and stick to it..
R.
Just been quoted from memory £690 (can't remember if that is +VAT or including). My mum may need it to be able to access funds from my dads bank accounts although they did have one in joint names. TSB saying computer says no probate, no money.
I'm not great with form filling or big words etc but anyone with a bit of skill (for example basic accountancy) could apparently piss it. This I was told from the above solicitor
I'm not great with form filling or big words etc but anyone with a bit of skill (for example basic accountancy) could apparently piss it. This I was told from the above solicitor
Simpo Two said:
Some Estates will be more complex than others, but when I had to sort one out my accountant (a friend of 30 years) did it for £300. It didn't seem dissimilar to a tax return, and I did the finance part.
From what you've written the friend just did the Inheritance Tax form? In a straightforward estate that's easy enough.There can be a lot of legwork in the rest of the work though. I've done it solely once and jointly once. Wife's Godfather nominated his solicitor. Including the legals on the sale of his house he charged £2500 inc VAT which seemed very reasonable indeed, especially as there were about 20 small bequests to deal with.
The Leaper said:
OP,
You have titled this thread Probate Fees. As at now, the fixed fee for an estate over £5000 is £215.
I think you have confused probate fee with the cost of administering an estate including getting probate.
I have acted as executor n maybe 6-7 of our family's estates, many with multiple asset forms. Done all the work myself but used a solicitor to deal with the sale of a house when relevant. Probably saved £000s and not difficult if you have a plan and stick to it..
R.
Maybe, I haven't seen the Engagement letter just the scope of fees letter which says 'our fees for acting for you in this matter'. Google suggests 1-2% of estate value for work done to effect probate is normal. Administering an estate...such as transferring a few properties to his wife and filing some papers. 80k? You have titled this thread Probate Fees. As at now, the fixed fee for an estate over £5000 is £215.
I think you have confused probate fee with the cost of administering an estate including getting probate.
I have acted as executor n maybe 6-7 of our family's estates, many with multiple asset forms. Done all the work myself but used a solicitor to deal with the sale of a house when relevant. Probably saved £000s and not difficult if you have a plan and stick to it..
R.
Burwood said:
Maybe, I haven't seen the Engagement letter just the scope of fees letter which says 'our fees for acting for you in this matter'. Google suggests 1-2% of estate value for work done to effect probate is normal. Administering an estate...such as transferring a few properties to his wife and filing some papers. 80k?
...I wouldn't be surprised if that doesn't cover the Probate Fee itself! Or Land Registry etc fees.We're just going through this for a family member. There will be change from £5k on the solicitor's fees and that's including the conveyancing fees for the sale of the property, the initial estimate for administering the estate was £3.5-£4k. The estate is at the high end of six figures and there's a trust involved so there's a bit of work in it.
That's leaving most things to the solicitor beyond the initial notification of the death and sorting out the household bills ourselves.
I can see no legitimate reason for charging a percentage of the estate. If there are hundreds of investments that need sorting out then that will take time which of course needs to be charged for, but there is no real difference in the time taken to deal with a £5k investment vs a £500k investment.
If there's nothing contentious and the assets are well documented you don't need a top end law firm to handle this, a well organised local Solicitor is fine.
That's leaving most things to the solicitor beyond the initial notification of the death and sorting out the household bills ourselves.
I can see no legitimate reason for charging a percentage of the estate. If there are hundreds of investments that need sorting out then that will take time which of course needs to be charged for, but there is no real difference in the time taken to deal with a £5k investment vs a £500k investment.
If there's nothing contentious and the assets are well documented you don't need a top end law firm to handle this, a well organised local Solicitor is fine.
Included in his estate: 2M life policy. 2.5M property, ISA/pension 1.5M, cash and personal property £300k
so the lawyers want 1.5% of the property 37.5K, 2% of everything else, 76k plus 15k fixed costs+VAT, £154,200. It's a bloody disgrace. And the fees letter also says, if we spend more time than anticipated we will also charge hourly thereafter.
I spoke to another lawyer friend about it and she said, they'd charge more. It's nice work-it pays well in relation to the work conducted. Gobsmacked.
I'm going to offer the service
so the lawyers want 1.5% of the property 37.5K, 2% of everything else, 76k plus 15k fixed costs+VAT, £154,200. It's a bloody disgrace. And the fees letter also says, if we spend more time than anticipated we will also charge hourly thereafter.
I spoke to another lawyer friend about it and she said, they'd charge more. It's nice work-it pays well in relation to the work conducted. Gobsmacked.
I'm going to offer the service
quinny100 said:
I can see no legitimate reason for charging a percentage of the estate. If there are hundreds of investments that need sorting out then that will take time which of course needs to be charged for, but there is no real difference in the time taken to deal with a £5k investment vs a £500k investment.
I see a parallel with IFAs here. Do the lawyers say they need more money to cover the risk/pay gigantic liability insurance premiums? Then again, they won't take a further 1% of the Estate every year thereafter 
Idea - I could charge £10,000 to feed your cat by saying it will take 10 hours and my rate is £1,000ph.
The Leaper said:
OP,
You have titled this thread Probate Fees. As at now, the fixed fee for an estate over £5000 is £215.
I think you have confused probate fee with the cost of administering an estate including getting probate.
I have acted as executor n maybe 6-7 of our family's estates, many with multiple asset forms. Done all the work myself but used a solicitor to deal with the sale of a house when relevant. Probably saved £000s and not difficult if you have a plan and stick to it..
R.
Thanks Roger, I understand what you mean. This isn't complicated. It's just that the numbers are large. Nothing is being sold. It's all going to his wife. What gets me is he has various work/private life policies naming her as a beneficiary. Already paid out too I believe, £2M and the lawyers want 40k+vat as a fee to administer that part. What, write a letter and fill in a form. There is no IHT to payYou have titled this thread Probate Fees. As at now, the fixed fee for an estate over £5000 is £215.
I think you have confused probate fee with the cost of administering an estate including getting probate.
I have acted as executor n maybe 6-7 of our family's estates, many with multiple asset forms. Done all the work myself but used a solicitor to deal with the sale of a house when relevant. Probably saved £000s and not difficult if you have a plan and stick to it..
R.
Burwood said:
The Leaper said:
OP,
You have titled this thread Probate Fees. As at now, the fixed fee for an estate over £5000 is £215.
I think you have confused probate fee with the cost of administering an estate including getting probate.
I have acted as executor n maybe 6-7 of our family's estates, many with multiple asset forms. Done all the work myself but used a solicitor to deal with the sale of a house when relevant. Probably saved £000s and not difficult if you have a plan and stick to it..
R.
Thanks Roger, I understand what you mean. This isn't complicated. It's just that the numbers are large. Nothing is being sold. It's all going to his wife. What gets me is he has various work/private life policies naming her as a beneficiary. Already paid out too I believe, £2M and the lawyers want 40k+vat as a fee to administer that part. What, write a letter and fill in a form. There is no IHT to payYou have titled this thread Probate Fees. As at now, the fixed fee for an estate over £5000 is £215.
I think you have confused probate fee with the cost of administering an estate including getting probate.
I have acted as executor n maybe 6-7 of our family's estates, many with multiple asset forms. Done all the work myself but used a solicitor to deal with the sale of a house when relevant. Probably saved £000s and not difficult if you have a plan and stick to it..
R.
In the past I've dealt with disposal of stock portfolios, fixed interest investments, ISAs and the like, personal assets, some of which can take a while and there's sometimes the family who have their own ideas, but if you are the executor you must stick to the Will.
Three or four things to say:
1. I've never had a Will and discretionary trust to deal with but I suspect the latter should be reasonably well set out and not a problem to follow. Maybe might need to use a solicitor if a trust is in place.
2. I've always used a solicitor for the disposal of real estate.
3. Record EVERYTHING you do.
4. At the very end of the process the final item will be the executor's account preparation which I have always had no problem preparing. A decent spreadsheet and good quality paper records help a lot with this.
5. If a charity is a beneficiary under the Will, never contact them until the last minute, I learned this lesson when the first Will I dealt with had three charities and after contacting them to simply inform them that there was a bequest and I was the executor and I'd keep them informed of progress, each of then called me nearly every day demanding I get the bequest paid to them asap and if I fail they will take legal advice. I ignored their threats and they just had to wait. I was confident I had a record of all my actions, transactions and I was working to a reasonable timescale so if they wanted to make trouble I had robust replies!
And on the subject of fees, avoid the banks. They always provided the highest quotes whenever I asked.
R.
It is a complete piss take, goes in the same file as the ambulance chasers that expect a (very) hefty proportion of a personal injury claim and then look to the other side for their costs as well 
.
There are however solicitors that will deal with the straight forward paperwork for just their hourly rate of £150/hr
.
.There are however solicitors that will deal with the straight forward paperwork for just their hourly rate of £150/hr
.The Leaper said:
5. If a charity is a beneficiary under the Will, never contact them until the last minute, I learned this lesson when the first Will I dealt with had three charities and after contacting them to simply inform them that there was a bequest and I was the executor and I'd keep them informed of progress, each of then called me nearly every day demanding I get the bequest paid to them asap and if I fail they will take legal advice. I ignored their threats and they just had to wait. I was confident I had a record of all my actions, transactions and I was working to a reasonable timescale so if they wanted to make trouble I had robust replies!
Agree massively with this, complete and utter f
king vultures. One even tried to argue they were entitled to more. Captain Raymond Holt said:
Agree massively with this, complete and utter fking vultures. One even tried to argue they were entitled to more.
The bigger the charity the worse they are. When I was sending out cheques, it was the small charities who replied to my e-mail and sent me a nice thankyou letter. I even got an invitation to a nature reserve open day organised specially for benefactors. Free coffee and a bun. But not the big charity - they didn't reply. However they have people who scour Wills and I got a letter out of the blue asking for their money! Needless to say they got paid last.king vultures. One even tried to argue they were entitled to more. I'm a fairly recently retired solicitor who ran a department dealing with ( among other things) probate work.
Over a 40 year career I used a yardstick of 1.5% of value to decide if the time based charges were sufficiently adrift to need more investigation before approving one of my teams billing. Sometimes I thought the bill was too low but investigation revealed that there was only one asset ( or more likely only one or two) so that would explain it. Sometimes the time spent produced a bill that was a lot more than 1.5% but then investigation would show that there were a multitude of assets or liabilities, a private company shareholding, overseas assets or a combination of them, and/ or associated trusts and Inheritance Tax complications.
All of which is to explain that each case needs to be assessed on its merits, and beware anyone saying that value is the only factor.
I do think the op's quoted figures sound high, and the first response to the quote should be to say that it seems a lot and how is it arrived at. If the answer doesn't seem satisfactory it's always possible to another firm.
I would also say that it is sensible to use a firm that has a demonstrable specialist team dealing with probate, rather than one where a generalist will deal with the case, not least because mixing probate with other work tends to mean the probate work gets lower priority.
I'm not going to try to defend solicitors charges here, though I would say that my 30 year management experience is that finding good people to do this type of work is not easy, and if you pay peanuts you get monkeys....
If the op would like some personalised help he is welcome to pm me.
Over a 40 year career I used a yardstick of 1.5% of value to decide if the time based charges were sufficiently adrift to need more investigation before approving one of my teams billing. Sometimes I thought the bill was too low but investigation revealed that there was only one asset ( or more likely only one or two) so that would explain it. Sometimes the time spent produced a bill that was a lot more than 1.5% but then investigation would show that there were a multitude of assets or liabilities, a private company shareholding, overseas assets or a combination of them, and/ or associated trusts and Inheritance Tax complications.
All of which is to explain that each case needs to be assessed on its merits, and beware anyone saying that value is the only factor.
I do think the op's quoted figures sound high, and the first response to the quote should be to say that it seems a lot and how is it arrived at. If the answer doesn't seem satisfactory it's always possible to another firm.
I would also say that it is sensible to use a firm that has a demonstrable specialist team dealing with probate, rather than one where a generalist will deal with the case, not least because mixing probate with other work tends to mean the probate work gets lower priority.
I'm not going to try to defend solicitors charges here, though I would say that my 30 year management experience is that finding good people to do this type of work is not easy, and if you pay peanuts you get monkeys....
If the op would like some personalised help he is welcome to pm me.
Thanks for your post Sib. What you say is fair and reasonable. My post was simply voicing my disbelief and it's not a situation I want to 'get involved with' other than support where I can. The family know they can contact me for my opinion whenever they wish. It was a tragic sudden death of a young person and they are still reeling from it.
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