Self ID on Scottish Census

[BlueFocus]

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/people-scottish...

The Census that gathers information to give a demographic of a country now allows people to fill it in as they identify, without a GRC.

Yet giving incorrect answers is a criminal offence.


How can they possibly police this now ?

[Biggy Stardust]

I identify as a small frigate of the Bolivian navy.

If any who identify as battlecruisers want to say hello then please send a photo of your turrets.

(This is no more stupid than that census).

[ZedLeg]

It's a voluntary question for people to expand on their gender identity. Total non issue.

[deckster]

ZedLeg said:

It's a voluntary question for people to expand on their gender identity. Total non issue.

Don't be like that. The OP has a right - nay, a duty - to get all frothy and offended about things that other people do that have no impact upon him in any way.

[Dagnir]

Scotland doing their best to make England's clown politics look sensible.

[rxe]

I’d love to see how the “giving incorrect information” can be prosecuted.

If I identify as an Attack Helicopter, what right does a court have to tell me that my identification is wrong?

[BlueFocus]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/31/peop...

That is not how i read it.

"People can answer the male or female question in Scotland’s 2022 census based on how they identify themselves rather than according to legal status, according to new guidance from the body responsible for the survey."

"Issued by the National Records of Scotland (NRS) on Tuesday, the guidelines tell people to answer the sex question according to how they self-identify, regardless of the details on their birth certificate or whether they have a gender recognition certificate."

[ZedLeg]

deckster said:

ZedLeg said:

It's a voluntary question for people to expand on their gender identity. Total non issue.

Don't be like that. The OP has a right - nay, a duty - to get all frothy and offended about things that other people do that have no impact upon him in any way.

No one seems to be reading the article anyway

No one is going to be prosecuted for making a ste "I identify as an attack helicopter" joke.

[Evercross]

No biggy it is true, except for the fact that the legislation for this is still in the consultation stage, so I guess that is just another sham consultation and the inference is that the Green/SNP alliance will pass the bill in Holyrood regardless.

We know that is how things happen, but SNP Scotland is now so blatant about it.

[rover 623gsi]

ZedLeg said:

It's a voluntary question for people to expand on their gender identity. Total non issue.

The voluntary question is the second part

The first question is about your sex and if you are allowed to write a sex that is different to the one on your birth certificate then it is effectively Self ID.

[ZedLeg]

It's nothing to do with the SNP, the NRS is civil service and not part of party politics.

[GroundZero]

BlueFocus said:

"People can answer the male or female question in Scotland’s 2022 census based on how they identify themselves rather than according to legal status, according to new guidance from the body responsible for the survey."

If correct then such a question in a consensus makes it irrelevant for attempting to determine how many male or female there are in the population.
It will reduce the information that a consensus can provide for future use. But if that is what they wish, if male or female is now irrelevant information for a consensus in Scotland, then its their politics and being English I have no say other than opinion on it.

I think this is going to be just one of a number of 'radical' changes in Scottish politics now that a 'green' party is able to have some direct input in to policy making. If the SNP wasn't woke enough, the 'coalition' government with the greens is likely to go woke overload Fun times ahead, for them.

[Gecko1978]

I thought it was Gender identity you could be what you felt etc but sex is mostly binary an not something you can self ID its well genetic.
But frankly who cares put what you like down

[ZedLeg]

Trans people were able to put down the gender they're living as down on the last census and it doesn't seem to have brought about the collapse of society. As always it's a tiny proportion of the population which will have a negligible effect on the overall percentages but the data will be useful for other things.

[Evercross]

ZedLeg said:

It's nothing to do with the SNP, the NRS is civil service and not part of party politics.

Nice spin.

As I said - the SNP Scottish Government has a Gender Reform Bill currently at public consultation stage, part of which intends to give legal status to self-identified genders (which can be changed at will and with no evidence of transition).

The NRS are being guided by this (clearly prematurely).

ZedLeg said:

Trans people were able to put down the gender they're living as down on the last census and it doesn't seem to have brought about the collapse of society. As always it's a tiny proportion of the population which will have a negligible effect on the overall percentages but the data will be useful for other things.

You know fine this has further implications than what you state. See the Scottish Politics (aka Scottish Independence/Referendum) thread for details.

There are legal challenges being led against this legislation by a QC who also happens to be an LGBT SNP MP (since ostracised from the party for pointing out the bleeding obvious).

Edited by Evercross on Wednesday 1st September 14:46

[rampageturke]

Gecko1978 said:

But frankly who cares put what you like down

A lot of old retired men with nothing better to do on here care about it a lot.

[BlueFocus]

ZedLeg said:

Trans people were able to put down the gender they're living as down on the last census and it doesn't seem to have brought about the collapse of society. As always it's a tiny proportion of the population which will have a negligible effect on the overall percentages but the data will be useful for other things.

So it is not a non issue then..

It is a change and allows people to enter whatever sex they feel like. As opposed to be a voluntary question on gender.

[GroundZero]

Gecko1978 said:

I thought it was Gender identity you could be what you felt etc but sex is mostly binary an not something you can self ID its well genetic.
But frankly who cares put what you like down

Ah, the old discussion of post-modernism's changing of words, so that they mean what ever the agenda wants them to be.
Apparently "gender" is to be called a "social construct", and apparently "gender" and "sex" are to be the same thing. And apparently a man can give birth without a womb, and apparently a girl can have sperm in their b0llox. People who give birth are supposed to be called "birthing person", because the agenda can not bring itself to accept the binary biology (in the main) of a man and woman
And no doubt I''ll be labelled by some who are advocates of this agenda, as a "frother" or 'transgender-phobe" just for writing the absurdity that is above.

[ZedLeg]

Evercross said:

ZedLeg said:

It's nothing to do with the SNP, the NRS is civil service and not part of party politics.

Nice spin.

As I said - the SNP Scottish Government has a Gender Reform Bill currently at public consultation stage, part of which intends to give legal status to self-identified genders (which can be changed at will and with no evidence of transition).

The NRS are being guided by this (clearly prematurely).

It's not a spin, it's a fact. I have a friend who's been working on the project and they're advised against even expressing political opinions in public spaces in case they're accused of bias.

[ZedLeg]

BlueFocus said:

ZedLeg said:

Trans people were able to put down the gender they're living as down on the last census and it doesn't seem to have brought about the collapse of society. As always it's a tiny proportion of the population which will have a negligible effect on the overall percentages but the data will be useful for other things.

So it is not a non issue then..

It is a change and allows people to enter whatever sex they feel like. As opposed to be a voluntary question on gender.

Yes, it's a non issue. What problems do people think will arise from this?