What's your relationship like with your Accountant?
Discussion
For the record, I have no issues with mine. She's very efficient, keeps my books in order, prompts me to pay tax at the right time and all that plus she saves me more than I pay her. She fulfils her obligations to a tee.
But having spoken to a few business buddies, they all seem to be getting a bit of added value - signposting business opportunities, networking, pro-active advice and the like. It seems their Accountants have a keen and vested interest in helping their clients grow their business whereas mine seems focused upon simply providing me sound Accounting services.
For purpose of reference would be interesting to see the sort of relationships you have with yours.
But having spoken to a few business buddies, they all seem to be getting a bit of added value - signposting business opportunities, networking, pro-active advice and the like. It seems their Accountants have a keen and vested interest in helping their clients grow their business whereas mine seems focused upon simply providing me sound Accounting services.
For purpose of reference would be interesting to see the sort of relationships you have with yours.
My last two were a complete disaster.
The last one sent me draft year end accounts which were basically a copy and paste job from the year before with numerous incorrect costs.
The one before was always late sending HMRC forms, I got more than one late submission warning, despite sending the accountant the data a day or two after the relevant period end.
My current one isn’t much good either but is at least accurate and timely. They do nothing proactively.
The last one sent me draft year end accounts which were basically a copy and paste job from the year before with numerous incorrect costs.
The one before was always late sending HMRC forms, I got more than one late submission warning, despite sending the accountant the data a day or two after the relevant period end.
My current one isn’t much good either but is at least accurate and timely. They do nothing proactively.
Mine have been an unmitigated disaster. 4 of 5, the relationship has broken down to the point of shouting, which is very rare for me. I had one good one who started as a freelancer but then she scaled up and the service went downhill.
It seems like all of them try to run a scale business at the lowest price and you end up feeling like a number. All of mine seem to have a real chip on the shoulder and have this “take it or leave it” attitude because they run a volume business. Even the basics such as getting accurate numbers seem to go south before we even get to proactive advice.
I’m not sure if I have outgrown the small businesses I use as I have a fairly complex setup. I did speak with some slightly higher end or more corporate looking outfits, but they were very expensive and overkill for what I need. Maybe there is someone in the middle where you can get decent service.
Need to start looking again now. Sigh....
It seems like all of them try to run a scale business at the lowest price and you end up feeling like a number. All of mine seem to have a real chip on the shoulder and have this “take it or leave it” attitude because they run a volume business. Even the basics such as getting accurate numbers seem to go south before we even get to proactive advice.
I’m not sure if I have outgrown the small businesses I use as I have a fairly complex setup. I did speak with some slightly higher end or more corporate looking outfits, but they were very expensive and overkill for what I need. Maybe there is someone in the middle where you can get decent service.
Need to start looking again now. Sigh....
Edited by dmahon on Thursday 2nd September 08:07
It's hard to get the balance right. Smaller accounting practices (like mine) are finding it increasingly difficult to keep up with avalanches of ill thought out government changes - especially regarding the digitising of tax reporting to HMRC. Deadlines are now much tighter and knowledge of the various IT systems implemented by HMRC needs to be up to speed at all times. The pandemic hasn't helped either.
I actually think that the smaller accounting practices will not be able to cope with the tighter and more frequent reporting deadlines that will become the norm after 5 April 2023.
I actually think that the smaller accounting practices will not be able to cope with the tighter and more frequent reporting deadlines that will become the norm after 5 April 2023.
trickywoo said:
My last two were a complete disaster.
Same here. One left it until the final day to do the work, and I had to visit her office and pay an unexpected tax bill by bank transfer on the very afternoon of the deadline. The successor quoted a sum to do year end and CG calcs which I paid in advance, then had a first rate free lunch at which they ordered themselves three glasses of expensive prosecco, then did half a page of scribble for the CG and demanded more money. No.bigandclever said:
My current one is fine; does what I ask, offers some opinions (not advice) and generally is on top of stuff.
My previous one nicked 100k from me, and more from others, and got 6 years inside for fraud.
So, yin yang and all that
How does that happen? I might be naive as a one man band, but why would the accountant have the ability to transact on your accounts?My previous one nicked 100k from me, and more from others, and got 6 years inside for fraud.
So, yin yang and all that
To answer the OPs question. It's OK. I don't pay a great deal really, and they do what I need but there is no proactive advice on how I can do stuff better (even in the context of making life easier for them)
egomeister said:
How does that happen? I might be naive as a one man band, but why would the accountant have the ability to transact on your accounts?
The gist was ..he prepared and submitted corp tax return on YourCo’s behalf (normal)
he told you to pay ‘HMRC’ at sort code / account number (normal)
you checked filing had been made (normal)
you paid corptax as directed (normal)
Except ..
‘HMRC’ bank details were actually his own; the name of a bank account can be anything (naughty)
he waited till YourCo had made payment to his account (naughty)
he then modified YourCo corptax return to Nil (naughty)
YourCo didn’t find out until the real HMRC tallied their books and started demanding their tax.
It would all inevitably collapse but it happened sooner because people, including his staff, noticed things were off. Still managed over £500k. Essentially it relied on people trusting he was providing the correct details; and if you can’t trust your accountant, who can you trust?
He didn’t steal from me that way, I was still paying bills by cheque. He got me on a ponzi currency trading scheme.
bigandclever said:
The gist was ..
he prepared and submitted corp tax return on YourCo’s behalf (normal)
he told you to pay ‘HMRC’ at sort code / account number (normal)
you checked filing had been made (normal)
you paid corptax as directed (normal)
Except ..
‘HMRC’ bank details were actually his own; the name of a bank account can be anything (naughty)
he waited till YourCo had made payment to his account (naughty)
he then modified YourCo corptax return to Nil (naughty)
YourCo didn’t find out until the real HMRC tallied their books and started demanding their tax.
It would all inevitably collapse but it happened sooner because people, including his staff, noticed things were off. Still managed over £500k. Essentially it relied on people trusting he was providing the correct details; and if you can’t trust your accountant, who can you trust?
He didn’t steal from me that way, I was still paying bills by cheque. He got me on a ponzi currency trading scheme.
he prepared and submitted corp tax return on YourCo’s behalf (normal)
he told you to pay ‘HMRC’ at sort code / account number (normal)
you checked filing had been made (normal)
you paid corptax as directed (normal)
Except ..
‘HMRC’ bank details were actually his own; the name of a bank account can be anything (naughty)
he waited till YourCo had made payment to his account (naughty)
he then modified YourCo corptax return to Nil (naughty)
YourCo didn’t find out until the real HMRC tallied their books and started demanding their tax.
It would all inevitably collapse but it happened sooner because people, including his staff, noticed things were off. Still managed over £500k. Essentially it relied on people trusting he was providing the correct details; and if you can’t trust your accountant, who can you trust?
He didn’t steal from me that way, I was still paying bills by cheque. He got me on a ponzi currency trading scheme.
I pay all my bills through the HMRC site, or to previously used bank details that I have got from the HMRC site so like you I don't think that would be an issue for me but clearly it got others.
Sounds like he had a lot of scams going on. Was the corp tax thing to try to cover the currency losses?
egomeister said:
Sounds like he had a lot of scams going on. Was the corp tax thing to try to cover the currency losses?
Fill your boots .. https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2...Sorry for the thread diversion!
I run a small accountancy practice, me and 3/4 staff and me personally i think it's getting harder and harder.
HMRC requirements we tend to keep on top of, but ever changing rubbish like MTD (imho) zaps time that one would normally spend on clients
Staff, particularly diligent ones who understand that numbers have to be correct, are very hard to find
Good software is more and more expensive
People going onto cloud accounting systems and making a total hash of it and then expecting us to untangle everything before doing their year end accounts
Accounts who are not qualified, not very good and undercut your fees by over 50% sometimes
I can put up with the above - we are paid to do a job and if I end up getting annoyed due to a client arguing over the fee, then my bad for not sorting it out.
However the bit that grates is clients that get told by their solicitors/mortgage advisors/IFA/agents/family that...
The accountant should be sorting out all your covid grants
The accountant should tell you what your business is worth
The accountant should be sorting out your HR issues/employment contracts/SSP disputes
The accountants job is to provide 50 million references and calculations for mortgages and finance
The accountant should be providing serious tax advice every year to minimise your taxes
And the best one i've heard recently, client had gone to a seminar where they were advised that they could potentially sue their accountant for not suggesting that they consider a foreign trust arrangement to save taxes. Funnily enough i had been to the same seminar and heard the same.
All the above should be done at no extra cost also
Certain clients i'm proactive with, certain one don't want that. I always find its good to ask occasionally to see where the client wants to be in a few years, bigger/smaller/other goals etc. For taxes now I always say if you want proper tax advice then I can refer you to a CTA who will go through everything and make suggestions/opinions and more importantly its insured advice.
If a client needs help/guidance then they need to ask for it really, one can't bombard every client with opportunities/ideas/new services etc, if you know where they want to be going and how much interaction they want then its a very helpful start.
HMRC requirements we tend to keep on top of, but ever changing rubbish like MTD (imho) zaps time that one would normally spend on clients
Staff, particularly diligent ones who understand that numbers have to be correct, are very hard to find
Good software is more and more expensive
People going onto cloud accounting systems and making a total hash of it and then expecting us to untangle everything before doing their year end accounts
Accounts who are not qualified, not very good and undercut your fees by over 50% sometimes
I can put up with the above - we are paid to do a job and if I end up getting annoyed due to a client arguing over the fee, then my bad for not sorting it out.
However the bit that grates is clients that get told by their solicitors/mortgage advisors/IFA/agents/family that...
The accountant should be sorting out all your covid grants
The accountant should tell you what your business is worth
The accountant should be sorting out your HR issues/employment contracts/SSP disputes
The accountants job is to provide 50 million references and calculations for mortgages and finance
The accountant should be providing serious tax advice every year to minimise your taxes
And the best one i've heard recently, client had gone to a seminar where they were advised that they could potentially sue their accountant for not suggesting that they consider a foreign trust arrangement to save taxes. Funnily enough i had been to the same seminar and heard the same.
All the above should be done at no extra cost also
Certain clients i'm proactive with, certain one don't want that. I always find its good to ask occasionally to see where the client wants to be in a few years, bigger/smaller/other goals etc. For taxes now I always say if you want proper tax advice then I can refer you to a CTA who will go through everything and make suggestions/opinions and more importantly its insured advice.
If a client needs help/guidance then they need to ask for it really, one can't bombard every client with opportunities/ideas/new services etc, if you know where they want to be going and how much interaction they want then its a very helpful start.
Al Gorithum said:
bigandclever said:
My current one is fine; does what I ask, offers some opinions (not advice) and generally is on top of stuff.
My previous one nicked 100k from me, and more from others, and got 6 years inside for fraud.
So, yin yang and all that
Was the chap in question from Enfield?My previous one nicked 100k from me, and more from others, and got 6 years inside for fraud.
So, yin yang and all that
Edit; just saw your link. An accountant I know just got out after a long stretch at her majesty's pleasure, for fraud. He was running a big Ponzi scheme and defrauded many people including clients, friends and family. I was lucky - got paid in full.
I work for an independent firm with almost 150 staff now, and recruitment is more competitive than ever.
The growing technical complexities mentioned by other beancounters above I would agree with, albeit we are large enough to have specialised departments which helps. The regulatory burden continues to increase exponentially.
Training up/supervising junior staff, which we do quite a lot of, has also been extremely challenging when all WFH.
The growing technical complexities mentioned by other beancounters above I would agree with, albeit we are large enough to have specialised departments which helps. The regulatory burden continues to increase exponentially.
Training up/supervising junior staff, which we do quite a lot of, has also been extremely challenging when all WFH.
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