What to do with religion? ious groups and child abuse report
Discussion
In short the report accuses religions (all the big hitters) of hypocrisy and ineptitude in protecting children from abuse, not just historically either.
BBC News - Religious groups in UK failing children over sex abuse, report says
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58420270
Usually I'd file this under in the "No s
t Sherlock" folder and move on with eating my dinner.
But I was wondering if the time has come where we might get a political movement or at least a single politician prepared to stand up and openly suggest it's about time we started to curb our enthusiasm for the religious stuff.
Would you vote for a party who'd say support removal of some of the charitable status of religions and actively sought to limit their viability in our country? I.e changing school syllabus, removal of religious schooling, removal of tax benefits to their "business" and more financial and regulatory control of what goes on inside places of worship?
BBC News - Religious groups in UK failing children over sex abuse, report says
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58420270
Usually I'd file this under in the "No s
t Sherlock" folder and move on with eating my dinner.But I was wondering if the time has come where we might get a political movement or at least a single politician prepared to stand up and openly suggest it's about time we started to curb our enthusiasm for the religious stuff.
Would you vote for a party who'd say support removal of some of the charitable status of religions and actively sought to limit their viability in our country? I.e changing school syllabus, removal of religious schooling, removal of tax benefits to their "business" and more financial and regulatory control of what goes on inside places of worship?
BobsPigeon said:
In short the report accuses religions (all the big hitters) of hypocrisy and ineptitude in protecting children from abuse, not just historically either.
BBC News - Religious groups in UK failing children over sex abuse, report says
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58420270
Usually I'd file this under in the "No st Sherlock" folder and move on with eating my dinner.
But I was wondering if the time has come where we might get a political movement or at least a single politician prepared to stand up and openly suggest it's about time we started to curb our enthusiasm for the religious stuff.
Would you vote for a party who'd say support removal of some of the charitable status of religions and actively sought to limit their viability in our country? I.e changing school syllabus, removal of religious schooling, removal of tax benefits to their "business" and more financial and regulatory control of what goes on inside places of worship?
Is precisely what I've been saying for absolutely years. BBC News - Religious groups in UK failing children over sex abuse, report says
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58420270
Usually I'd file this under in the "No s
t Sherlock" folder and move on with eating my dinner.But I was wondering if the time has come where we might get a political movement or at least a single politician prepared to stand up and openly suggest it's about time we started to curb our enthusiasm for the religious stuff.
Would you vote for a party who'd say support removal of some of the charitable status of religions and actively sought to limit their viability in our country? I.e changing school syllabus, removal of religious schooling, removal of tax benefits to their "business" and more financial and regulatory control of what goes on inside places of worship?
Yes, no religion should benefit from any advantageous tax situation what-so-ever. The idea is utterly ludicrous.
I see a very good argument that no person under 18 (maybe 16) should be subjected to any religious teachings, participation or indoctrination of any description. There appears to be no sensible argument against this as if someone wants to chose a religion when they are of a proper age then they are free to do so.
I can't see a problem with education about religion and the various world religions but there should certainly be no religious education in any school, state or private.
It's an interesting one, I would support the notion of removing all religion from education except to be taught about them objectively, as it it rather an abuse in itself to indoctrinate the young into a religion they can have no understanding of.
The psychological harm to children of religion is likely much more widespread than the physical harm, when viewed over the entire lifetime, although of course those victims of physical and sexual abuse have both abuses to try to deal with.
An example that I really struggled with as a child, was the concept of loved ones going to hell because they didn't believe in the right sort of god. Fortunately, I saw though it from a young age and so the harm was limited, but I was lucky. This was the kind of stuff taught in (sunday) schools, I hope it isn't anymore.
The psychological harm to children of religion is likely much more widespread than the physical harm, when viewed over the entire lifetime, although of course those victims of physical and sexual abuse have both abuses to try to deal with.
An example that I really struggled with as a child, was the concept of loved ones going to hell because they didn't believe in the right sort of god. Fortunately, I saw though it from a young age and so the harm was limited, but I was lucky. This was the kind of stuff taught in (sunday) schools, I hope it isn't anymore.
AJL308 said:
ZedLeg said:
No, governmental control of religious belief is a hallmark of dictatorship.
Removing tax free status and not allowing children to participate or be encouraged into religious ways is no where near dictatorship. What will kill religion is knowledge, education & freedom from indoctrination.
MikeM6 said:
It's an interesting one, I would support the notion of removing all religion from education except to be taught about them objectively, as it it rather an abuse in itself to indoctrinate the young into a religion they can have no understanding of.
The psychological harm to children of religion is likely much more widespread than the physical harm, when viewed over the entire lifetime, although of course those victims of physical and sexual abuse have both abuses to try to deal with.
An example that I really struggled with as a child, was the concept of loved ones going to hell because they didn't believe in the right sort of god. Fortunately, I saw though it from a young age and so the harm was limited, but I was lucky. This was the kind of stuff taught in (sunday) schools, I hope it isn't anymore.
I suspect that your hope is in vain, to be honest. The psychological harm to children of religion is likely much more widespread than the physical harm, when viewed over the entire lifetime, although of course those victims of physical and sexual abuse have both abuses to try to deal with.
An example that I really struggled with as a child, was the concept of loved ones going to hell because they didn't believe in the right sort of god. Fortunately, I saw though it from a young age and so the harm was limited, but I was lucky. This was the kind of stuff taught in (sunday) schools, I hope it isn't anymore.
MikeM6 said:
It's an interesting one, I would support the notion of removing all religion from education except to be taught about them objectively, as it it rather an abuse in itself to indoctrinate the young into a religion they can have no understanding of.
The psychological harm to children of religion is likely much more widespread than the physical harm, when viewed over the entire lifetime, although of course those victims of physical and sexual abuse have both abuses to try to deal with.
An example that I really struggled with as a child, was the concept of loved ones going to hell because they didn't believe in the right sort of god. Fortunately, I saw though it from a young age and so the harm was limited, but I was lucky. This was the kind of stuff taught in (sunday) schools, I hope it isn't anymore.
I went to catholic school and religious education wasn't indoctrination. By the time you're in high school you spend more time talking about history and other world religions than you do about catholicism.The psychological harm to children of religion is likely much more widespread than the physical harm, when viewed over the entire lifetime, although of course those victims of physical and sexual abuse have both abuses to try to deal with.
An example that I really struggled with as a child, was the concept of loved ones going to hell because they didn't believe in the right sort of god. Fortunately, I saw though it from a young age and so the harm was limited, but I was lucky. This was the kind of stuff taught in (sunday) schools, I hope it isn't anymore.
Just to add, I was schooled in catholic schools my whole life, went to mass, was even an alter boy and I'm not religious now. I stopped going to mass except for family occassions when I was still a teenager.
ZedLeg said:
It's control of religious belief.
How are you going to stop families from raising their kids in their religion?
You can't in the home. You can prevent them going to churches and places of worship though. Ten year-olds aren't allowed into night clubs or cinemas showing certain types of films so it's hardly without precedent. How are you going to stop families from raising their kids in their religion?
AJL308 said:
ZedLeg said:
It's control of religious belief.
How are you going to stop families from raising their kids in their religion?
You can't in the home. You can prevent them going to churches and places of worship though. Ten year-olds aren't allowed into night clubs or cinemas showing certain types of films so it's hardly without precedent. How are you going to stop families from raising their kids in their religion?
ZedLeg said:
AJL308 said:
ZedLeg said:
It's control of religious belief.
How are you going to stop families from raising their kids in their religion?
You can't in the home. You can prevent them going to churches and places of worship though. Ten year-olds aren't allowed into night clubs or cinemas showing certain types of films so it's hardly without precedent. How are you going to stop families from raising their kids in their religion?
Bacon Is Proof said:
ZedLeg said:
It's control of religious belief.
How are you going to stop families from raising their kids in their religion?
Don't.How are you going to stop families from raising their kids in their religion?
There's no need for discouragement, we should just remove the encouragement.
ZedLeg said:
It's control of religious belief.
How are you going to stop families from raising their kids in their religion?
You're right I'm uncomfortable with that idea too, but I'm very comfortable with the idea of removing the 26 Bishops and Knighted Arch Bishops (diagonally if you like) from the house of lords for example.How are you going to stop families from raising their kids in their religion?
The comparison with tobacco is ridiculous, for most people who practice it religion isn't harmful. For people who believe it gives them support and for their kids it's something boring they have to do on a Sunday.
I'm not denying that religious belief can lead to people doing serious harm, the focus should be on catching those people and changing the culture of protection within religious institutions. Banning or controlling religious expression for the average person wouldn't do anything about that. The people would still be doing harm, just somewhere else.
I'm not denying that religious belief can lead to people doing serious harm, the focus should be on catching those people and changing the culture of protection within religious institutions. Banning or controlling religious expression for the average person wouldn't do anything about that. The people would still be doing harm, just somewhere else.
ZedLeg said:
The comparison with tobacco is ridiculous, for most people who practice it religion isn't harmful. For people who believe it gives them support and for their kids it's something boring they have to do on a Sunday.
I'm not denying that religious belief can lead to people doing serious harm, the focus should be on catching those people and changing the culture of protection within religious institutions. Banning or controlling religious expression for the average person wouldn't do anything about that. The people would still be doing harm, just somewhere else.
It's not ridiculous. It was a simple observation as to discouragement. It wasn't a statement as to whether the discouragement in any particular case was warranted or not. I'm not denying that religious belief can lead to people doing serious harm, the focus should be on catching those people and changing the culture of protection within religious institutions. Banning or controlling religious expression for the average person wouldn't do anything about that. The people would still be doing harm, just somewhere else.
Personally speaking, I think it's perfectly reasonable. Separate issue though.
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