Discussion
I've done a reasonable amount of research on diamonds, but before I jump in I'd appreciate a bit more guidance. I've already had a sit down with a few jewellers and seen some diamonds/rings in hand.
I've set some fairly specific parameters on 77diamonds to achieve these results. The only difference between the two tables is carat.
My question is: as it's unrealistic to order all of these in to compare them side by side, how would I choose between them? Given they are so close in specification would any difference be seen by Joe Bloggs once it's set in a ring (halo).
I'm probably overthinking it and she'd be happy with any of them, but it's a big purchase and I don't want to make a mistake.
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I've set some fairly specific parameters on 77diamonds to achieve these results. The only difference between the two tables is carat.
My question is: as it's unrealistic to order all of these in to compare them side by side, how would I choose between them? Given they are so close in specification would any difference be seen by Joe Bloggs once it's set in a ring (halo).
I'm probably overthinking it and she'd be happy with any of them, but it's a big purchase and I don't want to make a mistake.
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iacabu said:
Given they are so close in specification would any difference be seen by Joe Bloggs once it's set in a ring (halo).
I'm probably overthinking it and she'd be happy with any of them, but it's a big purchase and I don't want to make a mistake.
I doubt 99.9% of the public know anything about diamonds and couldn't tell the difference between a real and fake one if asked. I'm probably overthinking it and she'd be happy with any of them, but it's a big purchase and I don't want to make a mistake.
I recently went to Hatton Garden and it seems like a group of people are selling a very specialist and expensive item to people who haven't a clue what they are buying and adding a several hundred percent markup.
It seemed to be full of Instagram wannabe girls and their older and definitely punching boyfriends buying them a £20K + diamond ring.
To me it seems like you are paying a massive amount of money for something that you are led to believe is rare and valuable but actually isn't. Try selling a second hand diamond and be amazed at the price you are offered assuming anybody even wants it.
Fair play to Debeers though for their marketing.
Joey Deacon said:
I doubt 99.9% of the public know anything about diamonds and couldn't tell the difference between a real and fake one if asked.
I recently went to Hatton Garden and it seems like a group of people are selling a very specialist and expensive item to people who haven't a clue what they are buying and adding a several hundred percent markup.
It seemed to be full of Instagram wannabe girls and their older and definitely punching boyfriends buying them a £20K + diamond ring.
To me it seems like you are paying a massive amount of money for something that you are led to believe is rare and valuable but actually isn't. Try selling a second hand diamond and be amazed at the price you are offered assuming anybody even wants it.
Fair play to Debeers though for their marketing.
Personally, I agree with you. However, she would like a diamond so that's what she's getting. I recently went to Hatton Garden and it seems like a group of people are selling a very specialist and expensive item to people who haven't a clue what they are buying and adding a several hundred percent markup.
It seemed to be full of Instagram wannabe girls and their older and definitely punching boyfriends buying them a £20K + diamond ring.
To me it seems like you are paying a massive amount of money for something that you are led to believe is rare and valuable but actually isn't. Try selling a second hand diamond and be amazed at the price you are offered assuming anybody even wants it.
Fair play to Debeers though for their marketing.
sherman said:
You may as well go for the VVS spec diamond if you can afford it.
If the jewller will order in more than one, choose what one you like the look of. The cut faces will be much the same. Good luck in being able to spot any flawsin the diamond and hope she says YES.
I'm not too worried about any flaws, especially if it's classed as VS2 or above.If the jewller will order in more than one, choose what one you like the look of. The cut faces will be much the same. Good luck in being able to spot any flawsin the diamond and hope she says YES.
We're at a stage in our relationship where it won't be a surprise. She's stuck with me already but as is the way of the world, I still need to pay thousands to show it
iacabu said:
I've done a reasonable amount of research on diamonds, but before I jump in I'd appreciate a bit more guidance. I've already had a sit down with a few jewellers and seen some diamonds/rings in hand.
I've set some fairly specific parameters on 77diamonds to achieve these results. The only difference between the two tables is carat.
My question is: as it's unrealistic to order all of these in to compare them side by side, how would I choose between them? Given they are so close in specification would any difference be seen by Joe Bloggs once it's set in a ring (halo).
I'm probably overthinking it and she'd be happy with any of them, but it's a big purchase and I don't want to make a mistake.
_______________________________________________________________
My god, if you've narrowed down to a shortlist of 77 stones then you most definitely are overthinking it!I've set some fairly specific parameters on 77diamonds to achieve these results. The only difference between the two tables is carat.
My question is: as it's unrealistic to order all of these in to compare them side by side, how would I choose between them? Given they are so close in specification would any difference be seen by Joe Bloggs once it's set in a ring (halo).
I'm probably overthinking it and she'd be happy with any of them, but it's a big purchase and I don't want to make a mistake.
_______________________________________________________________
I'm assuming this is for an engagement ring, and I'm also assuming this is from an online retailer like Blue Nile?
Looking at the grades, I'd not say any are much "better" than the other and you are in the realms of differences that cannot really be seen by the naked eye. So I'd simply whittle your list down to half a dozen based on a balance of size, cost and the one that seems to sparkle the most. Problem is, can you see them with your own eyes?
prand said:
My god, if you've narrowed down to a shortlist of 77 stones then you most definitely are overthinking it!
I'm assuming this is for an engagement ring, and I'm also assuming this is from an online retailer like Blue Nile?
Looking at the grades, I'd not say any are much "better" than the other and you are in the realms of differences that cannot really be seen by the naked eye. So I'd simply whittle your list down to half a dozen based on a balance of size, cost and the one that seems to sparkle the most. Problem is, can you see them with your own eyes?
77diamonds. Already visited (with her) the Manchester showroom.I'm assuming this is for an engagement ring, and I'm also assuming this is from an online retailer like Blue Nile?
Looking at the grades, I'd not say any are much "better" than the other and you are in the realms of differences that cannot really be seen by the naked eye. So I'd simply whittle your list down to half a dozen based on a balance of size, cost and the one that seems to sparkle the most. Problem is, can you see them with your own eyes?
The problem that you mention is perhaps my main concern with using them... I don't think it's realistic for me to have a dozen diamonds shipped in for me to look at.
I'll fire them an email and see what they can do.
Presumbly you have learned about the 4 C's?
In terms of "impact" (i.e. will the diamond look impressive) then the number 1 factor is carat weight = size.
The other factors then come more into play beyond certain thresholds.
In normal use, in a setting, on a ring finger, no-one can really tell colour difference between D-G. Only when there is a visible yellow tinge is it a factor.
For clarity, you need to look at a stone through a loupe to see a VS2. Even major occlusions can't really be seen by the naked eye when the stone is in a setting. But some people are "sold" on the concept of a "perfect" diamond, but it's all marketing.
The cut can be significant, a poorly cut diamond won't have the sparkle of a well cut diamond. But you are looking at cushion cut diamonds, which inherently don't have the same sparkle as the mathematically calculated round brilliant cut. Nothing wrong with that - I like a cushion cut myself even if you do lose some of the sparkle.
Diamonds are all about the marketing, and there's usually a premium to be paid for having the full carat compared with something 0.99 that no-one can tell apart. But of course the marketeers will tell you that you have to have a full carat, internally flawless diamond, for it to have any meaning for the engagement ring. Which is of course b
ks - unless that's what the lady has been brainwashed into expecting.
Usually by flexing on clarity and colour (to say VS2 and F-G) you can get 10%-20% bigger stone which will look more impressive. But only you and the partner can decide what has the most "meaning" to you.
Make sure that any price you are quoted includes VAT and any other taxes.
Also, a London based diamond wholesaler might be able to provide better or cheaper stones than the website. The whole market is price controlled so it comes down to who wants to flex on their margin more.
Finally, it is also possible to source stones second hand at considerably lower prices e.g. buying rings at local auctions and then having them re-set. Again, not all potential recipients will be on-board with this, but those that can get over the pre-owned concept of something that is a million years old anyway could end up with something twice as big.
Always remember, the whole industry is designed to make you (or the recipient) attach excessive value to small details.
To answer your question, no-one will really be able to tell the difference between any of those stones in passing when the stone is in a setting on the finger, apart from maybe comparing a 0.90 carat stone for size with a 1.05 carat stone. It really comes down to the details. However, as I've said, someone may persuade you or the recipient to attach greater "value" to the clarity or being the right side of a whole carat, and that's going to cost more.
In terms of "impact" (i.e. will the diamond look impressive) then the number 1 factor is carat weight = size.
The other factors then come more into play beyond certain thresholds.
In normal use, in a setting, on a ring finger, no-one can really tell colour difference between D-G. Only when there is a visible yellow tinge is it a factor.
For clarity, you need to look at a stone through a loupe to see a VS2. Even major occlusions can't really be seen by the naked eye when the stone is in a setting. But some people are "sold" on the concept of a "perfect" diamond, but it's all marketing.
The cut can be significant, a poorly cut diamond won't have the sparkle of a well cut diamond. But you are looking at cushion cut diamonds, which inherently don't have the same sparkle as the mathematically calculated round brilliant cut. Nothing wrong with that - I like a cushion cut myself even if you do lose some of the sparkle.
Diamonds are all about the marketing, and there's usually a premium to be paid for having the full carat compared with something 0.99 that no-one can tell apart. But of course the marketeers will tell you that you have to have a full carat, internally flawless diamond, for it to have any meaning for the engagement ring. Which is of course b
ks - unless that's what the lady has been brainwashed into expecting.Usually by flexing on clarity and colour (to say VS2 and F-G) you can get 10%-20% bigger stone which will look more impressive. But only you and the partner can decide what has the most "meaning" to you.
Make sure that any price you are quoted includes VAT and any other taxes.
Also, a London based diamond wholesaler might be able to provide better or cheaper stones than the website. The whole market is price controlled so it comes down to who wants to flex on their margin more.
Finally, it is also possible to source stones second hand at considerably lower prices e.g. buying rings at local auctions and then having them re-set. Again, not all potential recipients will be on-board with this, but those that can get over the pre-owned concept of something that is a million years old anyway could end up with something twice as big.
Always remember, the whole industry is designed to make you (or the recipient) attach excessive value to small details.
To answer your question, no-one will really be able to tell the difference between any of those stones in passing when the stone is in a setting on the finger, apart from maybe comparing a 0.90 carat stone for size with a 1.05 carat stone. It really comes down to the details. However, as I've said, someone may persuade you or the recipient to attach greater "value" to the clarity or being the right side of a whole carat, and that's going to cost more.
I have certainly found that above VS2 on the clarity scale unless you're unlucky with where an inclusion is, they're hard to see with a loupe let alone with the naked eye.
Color wise, I ( think I
)can see a difference between D/E and lesser colors.
When picking diamonds for my wife, I set clarity limit at VS2, color at D or E and then work down the list with the jeweler until I see something I think really "sparkles".
Color wise, I ( think I
)can see a difference between D/E and lesser colors.When picking diamonds for my wife, I set clarity limit at VS2, color at D or E and then work down the list with the jeweler until I see something I think really "sparkles".
PhilboSE said:
info
Thank you for that. All valid points that I have most certainly considered.I've read countless Web pages and watched many videos and documentaries on diamonds, including lab grown, so I feel pretty comfortable with what I need to know on paper.
I've made decisions on the 4 c's, and have actually set parameters on the table and depth percentages in my search (as recommended for cushion cut from various sources)
However, that doesn't necessarily translate to experience with them hands on, which is why I'm still here asking.
I think, as you say, no one will notice between those I've screenshot
In reply to some of the less serious comments, we met 15 years ago so gifts have been given
and her desire for material things is well understood on my part. The Moose said:
I have certainly found that above VS2 on the clarity scale unless you're unlucky with where an inclusion is, they're hard to see with a loupe let alone with the naked eye.
Color wise, I ( think I )can see a difference between D/E and lesser colors.
When picking diamonds for my wife, I set clarity limit at VS2, color at D or E and then work down the list with the jeweler until I see something I think really "sparkles".
Although I could tell the difference in colour between the D and G that I was shown, it wasn't significant enough to worry and without the direct comparison I would have been none the wiser.Color wise, I ( think I
)can see a difference between D/E and lesser colors.When picking diamonds for my wife, I set clarity limit at VS2, color at D or E and then work down the list with the jeweler until I see something I think really "sparkles".
As a few have said here and on other threads, I think I need to request to see a selection of diamonds in person before making a final decision
If you're lucky, the recipient will regard it as purely symbolic and will be happy with anything you give. In that situation, I'd go shopping with the recipient and let them be totally involved with the process and let them choose - with a modicum of appropriate "steerage".
If you're unlucky, the recipient will have been "sold" so that only a D colour, flawless, 1.0 carat stone has any meaning. In which case it's pony up time!
When we were shopping, I went to various places in London from wholesalers to Tiffany's but had the best experience in a jewellers in the Burlington Arcade which we went to quite early on. My fiancee found a ring she liked, they cleverly suggested she wore it for the day while we shopped elsewhere. They didn't even take a credit card or any collateral - just let us walk out the shop with it! Of course the sales tactic worked, we ended up buying it, and the bonus was I spent considerably less than I was expecting.
Which brings me on to the whole 3-months salary or take-home thing - it's just another marketing invention.
Hope you both find something you love, without being suckered. It's a minefield.
If you're unlucky, the recipient will have been "sold" so that only a D colour, flawless, 1.0 carat stone has any meaning. In which case it's pony up time!
When we were shopping, I went to various places in London from wholesalers to Tiffany's but had the best experience in a jewellers in the Burlington Arcade which we went to quite early on. My fiancee found a ring she liked, they cleverly suggested she wore it for the day while we shopped elsewhere. They didn't even take a credit card or any collateral - just let us walk out the shop with it! Of course the sales tactic worked, we ended up buying it, and the bonus was I spent considerably less than I was expecting.
Which brings me on to the whole 3-months salary or take-home thing - it's just another marketing invention.
Hope you both find something you love, without being suckered. It's a minefield.
PhilboSE said:
If you're lucky, the recipient will regard it as purely symbolic and will be happy with anything you give. In that situation, I'd go shopping with the recipient and let them be totally involved with the process and let them choose - with a modicum of appropriate "steerage".
If you're unlucky, the recipient will have been "sold" so that only a D colour, flawless, 1.0 carat stone has any meaning. In which case it's pony up time!
When we were shopping, I went to various places in London from wholesalers to Tiffany's but had the best experience in a jewellers in the Burlington Arcade which we went to quite early on. My fiancee found a ring she liked, they cleverly suggested she wore it for the day while we shopped elsewhere. They didn't even take a credit card or any collateral - just let us walk out the shop with it! Of course the sales tactic worked, we ended up buying it, and the bonus was I spent considerably less than I was expecting.
Which brings me on to the whole 3-months salary or take-home thing - it's just another marketing invention.
Hope you both find something you love, without being suckered. It's a minefield.
I'd say she fits somewhere between those two profiles. We have looked together a few times and she is happy that there is no need for D colour or flawless. Despite my advice, she is more bothered about size and although she likes the idea of a '1 carat' diamond, she appreciates the negligible difference in actual size between a 0.9 and 1.If you're unlucky, the recipient will have been "sold" so that only a D colour, flawless, 1.0 carat stone has any meaning. In which case it's pony up time!
When we were shopping, I went to various places in London from wholesalers to Tiffany's but had the best experience in a jewellers in the Burlington Arcade which we went to quite early on. My fiancee found a ring she liked, they cleverly suggested she wore it for the day while we shopped elsewhere. They didn't even take a credit card or any collateral - just let us walk out the shop with it! Of course the sales tactic worked, we ended up buying it, and the bonus was I spent considerably less than I was expecting.
Which brings me on to the whole 3-months salary or take-home thing - it's just another marketing invention.
Hope you both find something you love, without being suckered. It's a minefield.
To be fair, my budget doesn't fall far away from DeBeers' genius marketing but that's purely coincidence.
Glad it sounds like you did well with yours.
PhilboSE said:
Which brings me on to the whole 3-months salary or take-home thing - it's just another marketing invention.
Hope you both find something you love, without being suckered. It's a minefield.
Exactly, this is the problem you are fighting against decades of marketing invention that just seems to be accepted as fact by the recipient. "It has to be 1 Carat", "it has to be flawless", "it has to be a certain colour", "It has to cost three months salary" etc. etc. The problem is, the recipient knows nothing about diamonds and is purely driven by these marketing inventions that have somehow become ingrained in our culture.Hope you both find something you love, without being suckered. It's a minefield.
The man knows it is a scam, doesn't know what he is buying and doesn't want to appear cheap. Trouble is he is fighting against the irrational expectations of the woman, and the fact that the salesman knows if the man wants to have sex again he is going to have to pony up way more money than he is comfortable with on a largely worthless piece of metal and carbon.
And that is how they get you.
iacabu said:
Although I could tell the difference in colour between the D and G that I was shown, it wasn't significant enough to worry and without the direct comparison I would have been none the wiser.
As a few have said here and on other threads, I think I need to request to see a selection of diamonds in person before making a final decision
And you'd have even less a chance of telling the difference in colour once the ring is on a finger and a little bit dirty/covered in hand cream etc.As a few have said here and on other threads, I think I need to request to see a selection of diamonds in person before making a final decision
I'd ensure you get the right 'brilliance' so it's got a lovely sparkle.
Have you considered buying just a stone and finding a nice jeweller to design your own ring? That's what we did and its lovely knowing it's a completely unique ring design.
iacabu said:
I've done a reasonable amount of research on diamonds, but before I jump in I'd appreciate a bit more guidance. I've already had a sit down with a few jewellers and seen some diamonds/rings in hand.
I've set some fairly specific parameters on 77diamonds to achieve these results. The only difference between the two tables is carat.
My question is: as it's unrealistic to order all of these in to compare them side by side, how would I choose between them? Given they are so close in specification would any difference be seen by Joe Bloggs once it's set in a ring (halo).
I'm probably overthinking it and she'd be happy with any of them, but it's a big purchase and I don't want to make a mistake.
_______________________________________________________________
Having bought diamonds a few times, I learned that 99% of the stones jewellers will show you are poor.I've set some fairly specific parameters on 77diamonds to achieve these results. The only difference between the two tables is carat.
My question is: as it's unrealistic to order all of these in to compare them side by side, how would I choose between them? Given they are so close in specification would any difference be seen by Joe Bloggs once it's set in a ring (halo).
I'm probably overthinking it and she'd be happy with any of them, but it's a big purchase and I don't want to make a mistake.
_______________________________________________________________
A good starting point is buying a stone certified by one of the reputable labs. Cut is the most important factor IMHO. I’ve seen some very pretty “warm” stones with inclusions (ie not white and flawed) and some super dull white ones.
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