Redundancy and redeployment

[was8v]

I work full time on grant funded projects, 12yrs so far and haven't been successful in getting more this time so I am at risk of redundancy (3.5mo to go).

My employer is a Uni, theres loads of jobs I "could" do including work on other grant funded projects at a lower salary.

There is a redeployment policy in place, I get to see jobs first before they go public. They would freeze and protect my salary for 2 years if I was redeployed to one at a lower salary.

However I am quite happy for them to make me redundant and give me a redundancy payment as I have other employment lined up.

HR are saying I have an obligation to apply for these other jobs, or I will lose any redundancy pay. However I will have to go through the effort of applying they won't just offer it to me.

None will perfectly match my current skills / expertise perfectly and most likely at a lower grade.

Is it true that if I don't apply for their other jobs I am capable of doing then I will lose rights to redundancy pay?

At what point in time do they say "OK you can definitely have your redundancy pay - bye bye" or can they get to the day of redundancy and say "heres another job"?

[CarCrazyDad]

No, they cannot force you to apply for other jobs.

[LargeRed]

The Uni is covering its own backside, by showing they offered other positions.

Also if you are 'fortunate' to be accepted for another (Uni) position and you refuse it, yes you would lose the offer of redundancy.

[CarCrazyDad]

LargeRed said:

The Uni is covering its own backside, by showing they offered other positions.

Also if you are 'fortunate' to be accepted for another (Uni) position and you refuse it, yes you would lose the offer of redundancy.

Not really

You could be a lecturer.

They want to make you redundant

Offer you a cleaners position at 1/8th of your normal salary.

[LargeRed]

Under the rules, if the Uni ask him to attend interviews within the Uni, he has to attend.

all part of the Uni's, Duty of Care of the Employee.

[LargeRed]

CarCrazyDad said:

Not really

You could be a lecturer.

They want to make you redundant

Offer you a cleaners position at 1/8th of your normal salary.

No, read the OP message again. His salary would be frozen for 2 yrs or until 'others, in his new role, at the same grade' catch up with his (old)
pay grade.

[was8v]

So.....If I never apply for their jobs they have advertised to me, and they never actually make me an offer in writing of alternative employment, then I get the redundancy money?

They are saying I MUST apply if a job that I could do comes up. If I do not then I am breaking an obligation to apply for jobs while at risk of redundancy and they won't have to pay if they find i could have done one of the jobs (!?)

They say I cannot refuse a job on grounds of salary, as mine will be frozen for 2 years! This seems crazy. A frozen salary is a pay cut.

I don't know....

[CarCrazyDad]

LargeRed said:

No, read the OP message again. His salary would be frozen for 2 yrs or until 'others, in his new role, at the same grade' catch up with his (old)
pay grade.

I read it.

My point still stands - Ultimately it depends what is written into his CONTRACT.

However, the issue still is that you may be (for example) a lecturer

But your role is made redundant.

They can offer you a janitorial position, just at the same pay for 2 years.

Then what? There is no mention about "pay catching up". You may be paid £90k now but then after 2 years your new salary is £25k.

You can't always just move jobs within a business, if it's not a good fit for your skills or goals then you should be made redundant. They can't forgo Redundancy by offering a stupid position just with the guarantee of a certain income for a certain time scale unless you agree to it, if you don't agree then it should be redundancy.

Depends what he wants to do really.

You have reasonable security, effectively you are going to be given 2 years fixed wages ?

A hypothetical situation - what happens if you take this "janitorial" role, but after 3 months it's clear to your supervisors you are not capable / enjoying / fulfilling the job role and they make that redundant too
Are you then made redundant, or just redeployed again? If so, do you get the 2 years pay as a lump sump? Do you get your original redundancies money due from the end of your current position, or from now plus X months in new role?
Is your term of employment carried over, or are you effectively treated as a new employee?

What if you interview really BADLY for this new role and are not offered it?

Edited by CarCrazyDad on Monday 6th September 17:35

[Munter]

CarCrazyDad said:

I read it.

My point still stands - Ultimately it depends what is written into his CONTRACT.

However, the issue still is that you may be (for example) a lecturer

But your role is made redundant.

They can offer you a janitorial position, just at the same pay for 2 years.

Then what? There is no mention about "pay catching up". You can't always just move jobs within a business, if it's not a good fit for your skills or goals then you should be made redundant. They can't forgo Redundancy by offering a stupid position just with the guarantee of a certain income for a certain time scale unless you agree to it, if you don't agree then it should be redundancy.

Depends what he wants to do really.

You have reasonable security, effectively you are going to be given 2 years fixed wages ?

A hypothetical situation - what happens if you take this "janitorial" role, but after 3 months it's clear to your supervisors you are not capable / enjoying / fulfilling the job role and they make that redundant too
Are you then made redundant, or just redeployed again? If so, do you get the 2 years pay as a lump sump? Do you get your original redundancies money due from the end of your current position, or from now plus X months in new role?
Is your term of employment carried over, or are you effectively treated as a new employee?

What if you interview really BADLY for this new role and are not offered it?

But what if they are employed as "research assistant" and the roles on offer are "research assistant" just on a lower paying, less demanding project. If they choose to no longer be a "research assistant", did the position get made redundant, or did they quit.

[CarCrazyDad]

Munter said:

But what if they are employed as "research assistant" and the roles on offer are "research assistant" just on a lower paying, less demanding project. If they choose to no longer be a "research assistant", did the position get made redundant, or did they quit.

That sounds like going from a "research assistant earning £90k" to a "junior research assistant earning £25k but you keep your 90k salary for 2 years".

That is a downgrade, because your next career step would not be "senior research assistant" it would simply be back to "research assistant". It's not only money you would be losing but "status" and career progression opportunities.

You would not find Gordon Ramsay applying to be a Chef at Nandos if hypothetically someone said "We don't need you to be the head chef in London anymore".



It sounds to me like they want him to quit of his own accord and not be liable to pay redundancy or move into a lower paying job that they can eventually pay him less at. They are effectively paying him 2 years salary to find another job or settle for a reduced salary.

Many of my questions regarding length of service or future redundancy are important, as does what his contract specifically states.

If you really want to leave I would consider interviewing for the position but do so in a way that they cannot offer you the job. That way you've met your contractual agreement, you've applied / interviewed, if you're not successful that's their problem.

I'd suggest an inflatable hat and a Pineapple shirt

[Jasandjules]

LargeRed said:

The Uni is covering its own backside, by showing they offered other positions.

Also if you are 'fortunate' to be accepted for another (Uni) position and you refuse it, yes you would lose the offer of redundancy.

No with a lower salary or even at times a less "important" job it is not considered a suitable alternative position which is what I presume they are trying to say.

[LargeRed]

could I just ask, how many of the posters above ......... have actually made positions redundant causing an individual to lose their job ??

Before you reply ...... I HAVE made positions/people redundant and have had first hand experience in this procedure.

[mostlyharmless]

was8v said:

I work full time on grant funded projects, 12yrs so far and haven't been successful in getting more this time so I am at risk of redundancy (3.5mo to go).

My employer is a Uni, theres loads of jobs I "could" do including work on other grant funded projects at a lower salary.

There is a redeployment policy in place, I get to see jobs first before they go public. They would freeze and protect my salary for 2 years if I was redeployed to one at a lower salary.

However I am quite happy for them to make me redundant and give me a redundancy payment as I have other employment lined up.

HR are saying I have an obligation to apply for these other jobs, or I will lose any redundancy pay. However I will have to go through the effort of applying they won't just offer it to me.

None will perfectly match my current skills / expertise perfectly and most likely at a lower grade.

Is it true that if I don't apply for their other jobs I am capable of doing then I will lose rights to redundancy pay?

At what point in time do they say "OK you can definitely have your redundancy pay - bye bye" or can they get to the day of redundancy and say "heres another job"?

I've been in this situation, due to a variety of reasons I spent about a year in the redeployment pool for a uni. At the end of this I had a job lined up and wanted to avoid being redeployed against my will.

It was fairly simple, I had regular meetings with HR to check that I was aware of the redeployment pool and that I'd had a look recently. The only time I came close to being made to apply for something I was able to decline based on not meeting most of the job specification (e.g. a degree in X is not really a degree in Y no matter how hard you spin it). Best thing is to engage with it as otherwise they'll try and say that there was work but you didn't apply etc

As far as I could tell, academics were as unhappy about having someone from the pool foisted upon them as the pool members were of being randomly made to apply for jobs in vaguely suitable departments/groups.

Got my redundancy paid two months after I'd left (as specified in the staff handbook) which was nice.

[Countdown]

LargeRed said:

The Uni is covering its own backside, by showing they offered other positions.

Also if you are 'fortunate' to be accepted for another (Uni) position and you refuse it, yes you would lose the offer of redundancy.

I'm 95% sure you're wrong there.

The University HAS to let him know of other vacancies (ie they should offer redeployment if possible). The OP does NOT have to take the new roles if he considers them unsuitable.