3k to spend - brisk, comfortable and fun

[FNG]

I've got a Puma 1.7 and have to concede I haven't gelled with it at all. Don't rate the handling, and at 6'3" whilst I fit in it, I wouldn't with a helmet so I can't do a trackday; nor can my children fit behind me in child seats.

It's got a nice engine and gearshift, low running costs which is really important to us at the moment, but overall it's too small, too tinny, and frankly I'm not getting any chance to get it out for a thrash on my own so any agility and nimbleness it's got is wasted.

Also concluded that yes you can still have a 3dr and two young uns, but they kick the crap out the trim, kick you in the back when driving, and until they can sort their own seatbelts, a 4dr is just easier.

So with limited budget and sadly bugger all chance to save more money (two young kids, nursery costs, single income) I need to find something I like.

(I've also got neck problems which won't go away, so anything with a stiff rear end to encourage agile turn-in on a FWD is useless to me)

I'm looking at three main routes:

1. V8 Barge
Never had a V8, want one before it's just not doable any more, only commuting twice a week now. Sadly seems like lots of others are in the same boat, so smaller engined versions of barges are affordable, while the V8 variants have gone. I'm talking
- BMW E38 735i / 740i
- Audi A8 D2
- early LS400

I'm seriously nervous of repair costs on these, let alone the borderline-affordable newer gen barges with 200k on the clock (BMW E65, A8 D3) which are just in reach but obviously one repair bill away from being uneconomic to repair.

Am also very colour and trim fussy on these. Not a fan of beige leather, or green or burgundy paint - which are the cheap variants out there for sale, and coincidentally often look the best cared for. But I'm in middle age, holding on to that fiercely, and am not doing Old Man Colours.

The only other thing I can think of is an XJ8 (X308) but being a fussy beggar I'm finding it hard to get excited about them, preferring the pre-'97 cabin (but there's no V8 variant) and needing lows and big alloys because I can't bloomin help myself. And the earlier car rusts.

Any others?

2. early 00s VAG saloon - petrol engine
B5 A4 1.8T was always a bit of a want, but I know they're a bit vague with the steering, and getting rare in decent nick. B5.5 might be ok, bit dull?
Mk1 Octavia VRS seems to tick a lot of boxes, mind you every one has had a different number of aftermarket bits thrown at it
I've tried to like the A6 but just can't do it, can't get a S6 4.2 at my price point nor take the risk!

3. Newer diesel (as hardly any in the 00s were petrol)
Not liking the E90 much, C-Class is either too ugly - you know the ones - or too old and rusty, not taken with a S40
So erring towards the Alfa 159, and after much reading I can't afford the 1750TBI but could manage a miley 2.4 Ti - this does appeal a fair bit

Others on the eBay search list
- E36 Touring
- LS400
- E60 (525i and really much prefer 535i)
- Merc W124 particularly coupe
- Honda Legend to '01

I also had a Disco 2 relatively recently, an economical disaster area of a car, but I did embrace poddling along in it which is most unlike me. so things like a W124 E-Class might seem out of place amidst the fast saloons and 4-pot turbos, but they're not out of the question. They'd need to be cool and encourage wafting though. Nothing worse than a car that needs 50-100 bhp more.

So, that's an essay, yes I'm a fussy fecker, basically would like to know if I've missed any gems out there - mainstream or niche.

Thanks for getting this far.

[ElectricSoup]

SAAB 9-5 Aero

[bennno]

If you have young kids and are scraping to get to 3k then i'd personally just go and find a honda, astra, vectra, focus or mondeo. Prob petrol non turbo.

Anything on your list is a bill away from the scrapyard, I'd get something as boring as possible from a retiree who kept it in a garage, most old fart spec possible plus a detailed service history.

[Shabaza]

Have you considered an e46 of some sort?
Theyre almost boringly capable. 330 coupe/Saloon

Alternatively Cant go far wrong with a Lexus GS300, all the toys, still rear wheel drive, but more barge then track car.

If fuel isnt of massive concern a w211 E500 has a great engine, less problematic than the BMW v8s of that vintage, just suspension components mainly.

[FNG]

bennno said:

If you have young kids and are scraping to get to 3k then i'd personally just go and find a honda, astra, vectra, focus or mondeo. Prob petrol non turbo.

Anything on your list is a bill away from the scrapyard, I'd get something as boring as possible from a retiree who kept it in a garage, most old fart spec possible plus a detailed service history.

You know what, that's a very, very sensible answer And the fact I've never managed to do that to date is why I've had 37 cars in 31 years of driving, and am still on the bottom rung of ownership...

I don't mind the occasional repair myself, as long as it's not a cambelt or clutch etc. So an older and less complex car isn't a worry for me, unless it's a Disco that throws a fundamental fuel problem, a rotten rear chassis and the three amigo warning lights all in one week, that is...

Should also add that my wife has a leased Dacia Duster, 2 years old. So the school run and family stuff are catered for in normal use, but when I need to take them anywhere - they don't really fit!

Mostly I just need to get to work. But I do need not to aggravate my neck by doing so, which is what the Puma is doing at the moment.

[FNG]

Shabaza said:

Have you considered an e46 of some sort?
Theyre almost boringly capable. 330 coupe/Saloon

Alternatively Cant go far wrong with a Lexus GS300, all the toys, still rear wheel drive, but more barge then track car.

If fuel isnt of massive concern a w211 E500 has a great engine, less problematic than the BMW v8s of that vintage, just suspension components mainly.

I did have an E46 330ci a few years ago, then stripped it for a rollcage and stuff, second child was born, no time = sold for spares. I liked it quite a lot. Issues with another are:
- I would struggle to put up with a 325ci having had the faster one - and didn't feel the 330 was that quick anyway
- felt that it needed a square setup to get the best from the chassis, so wheel swap on the cards
- would need a coupe, and need a manual - I can't tell you why I couldn't do an auto, I just know I couldn't!
- am concerned about rear subframe mount cracking, and every one I've seen where that's been dealt with is a track spec car - my neck can't deal with that
- wasn't sure there's that much room in the rear of them - mind you I'm hanging my nose over Alfa 159s and they're no better

I've had a look at a few GS300 and sometimes like them, sometimes not. I suspect that depends on the right colour and trim, on a decent set of wheels. The right car could be a goer as a lower-cost mini-barge vs the LS400. I have got an eye on a decent looking grey LS400 but the seller wants all of my budget and I couldn't not put bigger wheels on It's a bugger when you're 500 quid away from it being a goer but I'm 6 months away from having another 500 quid in the bank...

Don't think I could go for a W211 but it's a good suggestion, I've looked at them but don't think they're for me.

Had also wondered IS200 manual. Suspect a bit slow for my taste and not wafty enough to compensate.

[FNG]

ElectricSoup said:

SAAB 9-5 Aero

Bit challenging on the eye but seemingly a lot of poke, low miles, low cost, and saab seats are supposed to be very decent aren't they

[LightningBlue]

With a tight budget and seemingly struggling financially looking for performance, wafty V8s or talking of track days doesn’t make any sense at all. I think you should be looking at things like Toyota Avensis/Auris, Honda Civic, Vauxhall Insignia, Ford Mondeo until things are a bit easier for you.

[ElectricSoup]

FNG said:

ElectricSoup said:

SAAB 9-5 Aero

Bit challenging on the eye but seemingly a lot of poke, low miles, low cost, and saab seats are supposed to be very decent aren't they

The seats are ace. I had a 9-5 Vector estate (nasty diesel not an Aero though) for a few years, most comfortable ones I've ever had. I replaced that car with a Merc E320, its seats were inferior. I now have a bad back. Maybe the 9-3 is worth looking at too, there are more of them about. And there's a 2.8 V6 version around too...

Also look at the Volvo S80. There are some 4.4 V8s to be had...I have long had a hankering for one of those.

[FNG]

LightningBlue said:

With a tight budget and seemingly struggling financially looking for performance, wafty V8s or talking of track days doesn’t make any sense at all. I think you should be looking at things like Toyota Avensis/Auris, Honda Civic, Vauxhall Insignia, Ford Mondeo until things are a bit easier for you.

How very dare you, this is PH

Yes it's very much the sensible answer and I'm trying to be as sensible as I can. I'm terrible when it comes to cars, especially if they are on the dull side. Hence 37 in 31 years... every time I buy one I spend on it and eventually sell on at some sort of loss or another, so it makes more sense to me to buy something I like and will keep for longer, than put up with something that doesn't grille my sausage and ends up being replaced soonest.

Re trackdays, I have some credit with a TDO because my Clio 172 burned to the ground on my driveway just before Christmas before I could use a block booking. I'm not looking to do lots of track work, but one or two would be nice, and if I don't use the credit I'll lose it.

The barge thing is about comfort, and about driving something that I won't be trying to scrape the doorhandles in. I recognise I can maybe afford an ok 728i or A8 2.8 v6 with a bit of fighting fund for repairs, but I don't want that nagging every time I start it up that says "shoulda got the V8..."

[paulrockliffe]

FNG said:

Had also wondered IS200 manual. Suspect a bit slow for my taste and not wafty enough to compensate.

I have an IS200 that I'm getting rid of because it's not really all that quick and although I wouldn't call it wafty at all it's far too composed. It's basically a bit dull until you're going faster than I like to drive.

[ZX10R NIN]

I'd say if you want something that's smart brisk comfortable a decent steer with sensible running costs then the CLK range has a lot to offer.

320 Avantgarde

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202108096...

200 Sport

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202109036...

As long as you're not near a CAZ/ULEZ zone then the 320cdi Sport is the pick with sensible running costs nice interior & a decent turn of pace:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/373704066186?hash=item5...

0r a 220cdi Sport:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202108256...

All can be run on a sensible budget whilst giving you & the family a nice set of wheels to run around in & you can save for something track worthy.

[Invented Brush]

I've considered the following looking around this price before:

9-3 2.0T Aero (saloon or estate). As mentioned above, loads around, good standard spec and you should have some money leftover to sort out the odd issue. To my eye they've aged better than the A4, at least on the exterior.

Seat Exeo might be worth a look, though most of them are the 2.0TDI and probably no more exciting to drive than the A4.

MK2 Leon FR with the 200hp petrol engine seem to offer good performance for the money if you can find a nice unmodified one.

159s, especially in TI spec, seem to hold value suprisingly well.

[FNG]

paulrockliffe said:

I have an IS200 that I'm getting rid of because it's not really all that quick and although I wouldn't call it wafty at all it's far too composed. It's basically a bit dull until you're going faster than I like to drive.

Useful feedback, thanks. If I end up with something offering 150bhp it needs to be so unrewarding to nail it that you don't bother

[FNG]

ZX10R NIN said:

I'd say if you want something that's smart brisk comfortable a decent steer with sensible running costs then the CLK range has a lot to offer.

320 Avantgarde

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202108096...

200 Sport

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202109036...

As long as you're not near a CAZ/ULEZ zone then the 320cdi Sport is the pick with sensible running costs nice interior & a decent turn of pace:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/373704066186?hash=item5...

0r a 220cdi Sport:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202108256...

All can be run on a sensible budget whilst giving you & the family a nice set of wheels to run around in & you can save for something track worthy.

Quite honestly the front end styling of that era Merc leaves me totally cold, albeit the first car you linked does look like a nice thing to breeze around in.

Modern diesels give me the fear, too. I had a Mondeo Zetec-S TDCi that I liked a lot when I was commuting 85 miles each way every day, which needed a £1200 DMF and starter motor, and then 6 months later just failed to start one morning, presenting me with a 2 grand bill for injectors, fuel rail, turbo, intercooler and (the cause of all these things to fail) the fuel pump. The car was worth 1500 quid. It went to the scrap man.

I concluded that the modern diesel has so much guff bolted on to it to make it perform and function like a decent powerplant that I don't want to be saddled with the expensive failures they can throw at you.

I had a 330i Touring which lasted me 3 years, in that time the ABS modulator failed twice at 2 grand a time. I asked the mechanic what else failed on them, and he said "pretty much just the modulator... but on the diesel, you've got the DPF, the gearbox, the EGR, the turbo, the fuel pump, the flywheel..."

[griffter]

FNG said:

I've tried to like the A6 but just can't do it, can't get a S6 4.2 at my price point nor take the risk!
.

Your conclusions on kids and three doors are spot on IMHO. There’s an A6 4.2 below the S6. Problem is they’re rare (none currently on Autotrader in the early shape - sorry I don’t know my Audi model codes). But they’re nice, all quattro and the ones I have seen come and go appear to have been cared for and well kept - and in the £3-£4K price range.

The only other thing I’d say is don’t limit yourself to eBay. If you’re looking at W124s and Legends, look at carandclassic too. Generally a far more reassuring set of options and vendors (again IMHO).

[aka_kerrly]

FNG said:

paulrockliffe said:

I have an IS200 that I'm getting rid of because it's not really all that quick and although I wouldn't call it wafty at all it's far too composed. It's basically a bit dull until you're going faster than I like to drive.

Useful feedback, thanks. If I end up with something offering 150bhp it needs to be so unrewarding to nail it that you don't bother

I've had a few IS200 with both manual & automatic gearboxes. The auto is a lot more "wafty" than than the manual since it's a 4 speed it has quite long gears which match the engine very well. The manual on the other hand has 6 relatively short gears, 1st/2nd are short but not well spaced and are further hampered by a heavy flywheel. Hence the 0-60 time doesn't look too impressive, however from 30mph+ 3rd and 4th gear speeds the IS is much more lively & entertaining than the equivalent 150hp BMW 320i.

With £3k you might find a IS200 with a supercharger installed. The majority of supercharged ones use the Eaton charger from a Mercedes 230k, these typically make somewhere in the 200-220hp range depending on the size of the pulley. I've not driven a 200+ HP IS200 but I do have a Toyota Altezza which is the Japanese version of a IS200 fitted with the 2.0 4cylinder 3SGE engine similar to the MR2 engine and it's a LOT of fun!!!

One thing to watch out for is there are (in my opinion) quite a few overpriced IS200s about at the moment and the later IS250 is in my opinion better value right now and are well worth having a look at. The Sport models don't scream OAP , there are plenty with dark coloured interiors and the choice of auto with "paddle shift" & manual gearbox options to.

You mentioned VAG 2.0T based vehicles, I didn't see the mk2 Octavia VRS on the list, could be worth looking at.

[FNG]

griffter said:

Your conclusions on kids and three doors are spot on IMHO. There’s an A6 4.2 below the S6. Problem is they’re rare (none currently on Autotrader in the early shape - sorry I don’t know my Audi model codes). But they’re nice, all quattro and the ones I have seen come and go appear to have been cared for and well kept - and in the £3-£4K price range.

The only other thing I’d say is don’t limit yourself to eBay. If you’re looking at W124s and Legends, look at carandclassic too. Generally a far more reassuring set of options and vendors (again IMHO).

I keep forgetting car and classic, but have been looking on ebay, gumtree, facebook (I know...), retrorides and autotrader. So C&C is a good shout.

Apols, when I said I've tried to like the A6 I really meant the next model. I perversely quite liked the early 00s A6 with its bulbous bootlid - just needed a tiny spoiler strip to break it up and look OK. The non-S6 4.2 would be rather nice, I agree.

[FNG]

aka_kerrly said:

FNG said:

paulrockliffe said:

I have an IS200 that I'm getting rid of because it's not really all that quick and although I wouldn't call it wafty at all it's far too composed. It's basically a bit dull until you're going faster than I like to drive.

Useful feedback, thanks. If I end up with something offering 150bhp it needs to be so unrewarding to nail it that you don't bother

I've had a few IS200 with both manual & automatic gearboxes. The auto is a lot more "wafty" than than the manual since it's a 4 speed it has quite long gears which match the engine very well. The manual on the other hand has 6 relatively short gears, 1st/2nd are short but not well spaced and are further hampered by a heavy flywheel. Hence the 0-60 time doesn't look too impressive, however from 30mph+ 3rd and 4th gear speeds the IS is much more lively & entertaining than the equivalent 150hp BMW 320i.

With £3k you might find a IS200 with a supercharger installed. The majority of supercharged ones use the Eaton charger from a Mercedes 230k, these typically make somewhere in the 200-220hp range depending on the size of the pulley. I've not driven a 200+ HP IS200 but I do have a Toyota Altezza which is the Japanese version of a IS200 fitted with the 2.0 4cylinder 3SGE engine similar to the MR2 engine and it's a LOT of fun!!!

One thing to watch out for is there are (in my opinion) quite a few overpriced IS200s about at the moment and the later IS250 is in my opinion better value right now and are well worth having a look at. The Sport models don't scream OAP , there are plenty with dark coloured interiors and the choice of auto with "paddle shift" & manual gearbox options to.

You mentioned VAG 2.0T based vehicles, I didn't see the mk2 Octavia VRS on the list, could be worth looking at.

Does seem that any manual IS200 is a bit of cash at the moment, while the autos are a fair bit cheaper. There's some horrendous looking modified ones out there too, in facebookmarketplaceland mind you.

You're probably spot on that a supercharged one would be good, especially with a 6 speed with short gear spacing. It would need to be fairly sleeper though. My days of looking like my car's just left a drift oval are behind me... probably.

I'd been warned off VAG 2.0T engines until about 2011 by a mate who's had a number of Golf GTis. I don't recall exactly why. He'd reckoned they were stored up trouble and I reasoned that the 1.8T would be a lot more bedded in by the end of its life than the new 2.0T in its early years.

I prefer the Mk1 Octavia's looks and the dash can take a 2DIN head unit, too, so hadn't gone further with the Mk2 although there are a fair number out there and they seem to have been a lot less bothered by the bolt-on boys.

Good shout on the IS250, doesn't look a bad car - with a dark interior. God it feels... sensible, though. Shudder.

[LightningBlue]

FNG said:

How very dare you, this is PH

Yes it's very much the sensible answer and I'm trying to be as sensible as I can. I'm terrible when it comes to cars, especially if they are on the dull side. Hence 37 in 31 years... every time I buy one I spend on it and eventually sell on at some sort of loss or another, so it makes more sense to me to buy something I like and will keep for longer, than put up with something that doesn't grille my sausage and ends up being replaced soonest.

Re trackdays, I have some credit with a TDO because my Clio 172 burned to the ground on my driveway just before Christmas before I could use a block booking. I'm not looking to do lots of track work, but one or two would be nice, and if I don't use the credit I'll lose it.

The barge thing is about comfort, and about driving something that I won't be trying to scrape the doorhandles in. I recognise I can maybe afford an ok 728i or A8 2.8 v6 with a bit of fighting fund for repairs, but I don't want that nagging every time I start it up that says "shoulda got the V8..."

I know 😁 There’ll probably be some cheap and more exotic cars but it seems like that’s asking for trouble. In my experience lots of pondlife are attracted to cheap German cars in particular. A Volvo S80 might be ok, very comfortable but you wouldn’t enjoy driving it. Probably similar to lots of cars in that budget. Lexus worth a look. At one time you could get things like a Scirocco 2.0TSI (I had one and loved it), but would be extremely wary about anything like that. Good luck!