Woo Hoo - I just got fired!
Discussion
and it feels great!
Had a few altercations with my boss over the last few months and finally he blew his top at me this morning and declared that he was firing me.
The company comprises about 4 of us, all in separate locations doing various aspects of software development.
Morale has been rock bottom for nearly a year now, with the other two workers and myself constantly feeling like we've had enough. We're utterly sick of him ranting at us down the phone. Telling us to do one thing and then two days later completely forgetting the fact and bollocking us for not doing something he said to do last week. You get the picture.
Yesterday we had a problem with one of our systems located in Australia and I'd been up all night trying to sort out Oracle Replication problems.
Needless to say this morning he got on the phone wanting to know why I hadn't escalated the problem to him. Well, mainly because I'd been in conversation with the Customer (who was happy at the work I was doing) and also with one other member of the team who was actually in a postion to help but was at another Customer's site, the last conversation I had with him was at about 2am when I finally sent him off to get some sleep. And finally wtf did he expect to be able to do at 2am, which would involve gettinghim out of bed for him to say, oh well carry on with it....
So this morning I get my boss ranting on the phone that I'm an idiot, I'm stoopid, I'm unprofessional, yada yada yada...
I point out to him that ranting at me when I've been up for the best part of 36 hrs is not helping much and if he really wants a rant can't he postpone it till another time when I've had some sleep and the problem has been fixed?
This doesn't go down too well, and he launches into another tirade, leading me to retort that 'everyone is thoroughly sick of him ranting and morale within the company is lower than the bottom of a very very low thing'.
After a few more f**ks and other choice words I hear 'that's it you're fired - you can leave at the end of the month'
Not sure if he expected my response which was 'ok fine can I get on with fixing this problem now?'
Ahhh, so there we have it, feel like a huge weight has been lifted off my shoulders, we can survive a few months without my job, plenty of time to get sorted and find something else.
But, now he's claiming to hold me to a 3 month notice period in my contract.
Unfortunately non of the conversation was witnessed, so I want some advice here.
I'm tempted to hold him to the 'end of the month', at the same time I know this will jeopordise the position of the two other guys in the company (who I get on well with) as we have contracts that require my skill set.
But a big part of me wants to dig in my heels and give him the Agincourt Salute.
Even better would then be to turn round and say, you want me for three more months? Fine my daily rate is now what you charge me out to the Customers at.
What is utterly sickening is that I can actually make almost the same amount of 'disposable income' driving a tractor down on a local farm, no questions asked.
Just show's how much he's been creaming off us payingfor his villa in Ibizia and god knows what else.
So where do I stand, can I tell him to stick it and not be in breach of my contract?
best
Ex
Had a few altercations with my boss over the last few months and finally he blew his top at me this morning and declared that he was firing me.
The company comprises about 4 of us, all in separate locations doing various aspects of software development.
Morale has been rock bottom for nearly a year now, with the other two workers and myself constantly feeling like we've had enough. We're utterly sick of him ranting at us down the phone. Telling us to do one thing and then two days later completely forgetting the fact and bollocking us for not doing something he said to do last week. You get the picture.
Yesterday we had a problem with one of our systems located in Australia and I'd been up all night trying to sort out Oracle Replication problems.
Needless to say this morning he got on the phone wanting to know why I hadn't escalated the problem to him. Well, mainly because I'd been in conversation with the Customer (who was happy at the work I was doing) and also with one other member of the team who was actually in a postion to help but was at another Customer's site, the last conversation I had with him was at about 2am when I finally sent him off to get some sleep. And finally wtf did he expect to be able to do at 2am, which would involve gettinghim out of bed for him to say, oh well carry on with it....
So this morning I get my boss ranting on the phone that I'm an idiot, I'm stoopid, I'm unprofessional, yada yada yada...
I point out to him that ranting at me when I've been up for the best part of 36 hrs is not helping much and if he really wants a rant can't he postpone it till another time when I've had some sleep and the problem has been fixed?
This doesn't go down too well, and he launches into another tirade, leading me to retort that 'everyone is thoroughly sick of him ranting and morale within the company is lower than the bottom of a very very low thing'.
After a few more f**ks and other choice words I hear 'that's it you're fired - you can leave at the end of the month'
Not sure if he expected my response which was 'ok fine can I get on with fixing this problem now?'
Ahhh, so there we have it, feel like a huge weight has been lifted off my shoulders, we can survive a few months without my job, plenty of time to get sorted and find something else.
But, now he's claiming to hold me to a 3 month notice period in my contract.
Unfortunately non of the conversation was witnessed, so I want some advice here.
I'm tempted to hold him to the 'end of the month', at the same time I know this will jeopordise the position of the two other guys in the company (who I get on well with) as we have contracts that require my skill set.
But a big part of me wants to dig in my heels and give him the Agincourt Salute.
Even better would then be to turn round and say, you want me for three more months? Fine my daily rate is now what you charge me out to the Customers at.
What is utterly sickening is that I can actually make almost the same amount of 'disposable income' driving a tractor down on a local farm, no questions asked.
Just show's how much he's been creaming off us payingfor his villa in Ibizia and god knows what else.
So where do I stand, can I tell him to stick it and not be in breach of my contract?
best
Ex
You've been fired so are free to leave whenever. If you choose to work until the end of the month you may have issues with actually being entitled to pay.
You haven't given notice and therefore don't have to work your notice period.
Check your contract as well though.
>> Edited by Nevin on Thursday 21st July 19:29
You haven't given notice and therefore don't have to work your notice period.
Check your contract as well though.
>> Edited by Nevin on Thursday 21st July 19:29
Not sure about the legal mumbo jumbo, but it sounds like this scenario couldn't have come soon enough for you.
All the best to you Ex - you must be incredibly relieved.
Living through a miserable job is not nice for anyone.
Good luck with the next mission, and have a drink to celebrate your release.
And a bit of sleep, of course!
All the best to you Ex - you must be incredibly relieved.
Living through a miserable job is not nice for anyone.
Good luck with the next mission, and have a drink to celebrate your release.
And a bit of sleep, of course!
Not legal advice as it’s not my topic but,
If you can stand it I’d stay till the end of the contract. If you can put your rate up then do that as well, why the 1st bit?
1. You can be really frugal over the next 3 months to tide you over a bit longer, just in case.
2. You can spend a bit longer finding the right job.
3. read between the lines here If I were you soon to be ex boss there is no way in hell I would want you out of my sight talking to my customers. Just don’t breach any terms of your contract, IYKWIM
4. You get serious brownie points with the other guys for saving their bacon and what goes around comes around.
Hope it all works out in the end for you, and don’t forget to send him a letter confirming that you understand that he has decided to give you the requisite 3 months notice terminating your contract and that you will be leaving his employ on the 21st October 2005.
If you can stand it I’d stay till the end of the contract. If you can put your rate up then do that as well, why the 1st bit?
1. You can be really frugal over the next 3 months to tide you over a bit longer, just in case.
2. You can spend a bit longer finding the right job.
3. read between the lines here If I were you soon to be ex boss there is no way in hell I would want you out of my sight talking to my customers. Just don’t breach any terms of your contract, IYKWIM
4. You get serious brownie points with the other guys for saving their bacon and what goes around comes around.
Hope it all works out in the end for you, and don’t forget to send him a letter confirming that you understand that he has decided to give you the requisite 3 months notice terminating your contract and that you will be leaving his employ on the 21st October 2005.
theexcession said:
So where do I stand, can I tell him to stick it and not be in breach of my contract?
Well I'm only lightly versed in HR terminology but I would imagine that as you're being fired the notice period for RESIGNING does not apply.
Being fired woudl mean only statutary notice (i.e. 1 week pay per year of service is usual nad yuou'd leave immediately). Firing you without having given formal warnings for poor performance or whatever is pretty much impossible.. (unless you've shot/raped/stolen something somebody)
Read the company regs, if he's firing you then the firing procedure in the company docs is the one to go thorough.
Boss can't ahve it both ways - in effect at the moment he is 'asking you to resign' which if you don't want to he can't make you.
He can sack you as the boss, but then he's got to provide reasons (e.g. gross misconduct / theft etc) - if his reason isn't that good then he's effectively leaving himself open for you to launch an unfair dismissal case.
I'd go for a legal agreement between the two of you agreeing a leave date. I'd also ask for redundancy (cheaper for him as he won't pay company tax - and you can take a tax free sum up to 30k - ie any pay off will be tax free)
... need to speak to someone who does this for their job, rather than someone who's just overheard it all from his dad and a bit of experience though!!!
Good luck!
>> Edited by mr_tony on Thursday 21st July 19:41
I don't know about contracts and stuff, but I can tell you that there is nothing that beats being able to work for a respectable, competent boss. No amount of pay can make up for the emotional duress inflicted on people by bad leadership, untrustworthiness, and undervaluing of skills. A good boss is difficult to find, but you are much better off without this guy, obviously.
I can't help wonder what your ex-boss has going on that makes him change agendas so frequently. I job I had a few years back in which another engineer and I were really getting jerked around by this older engineer, and it turns out he wasn't so innocently absentminded or disorganized: he would report to our boss that we weren't getting things done in the mean time and do stuff to undermine our work on equipment so we'd have to start over again. On the day I left, my boss was telling me, that "so-and-so will never be promoted", and that there was a hiring freeze (big corporation). Another friend in the know basically said this guy can't get fired because he's a minority. Ahh..the legacy of affirmative action. So the chain-yanker was playing the race card to secure his position. Apparently, fairly or not, his career had been shelved at a dead end and he was clinging to it by undermining anyone else up and coming. The whole place was a loss because of the inertia of management (and quite possibly the discrimination that resulted in token-hiring and dead-ending of minorities among other things). There was a lot of crap that brought out bad behavior in these people, and when the whole organization is infected with it, there's nothing you can do but leave for the sake of your own well-being.
Best of luck. I remember feeling the same bizarre elation when I finally quit my job, also. My relatives thought I was nuts, but there's no amount of description that really conveys how bad things were without them having actually been there themselves.
>> Edited by seafarer on Thursday 21st July 19:43
I can't help wonder what your ex-boss has going on that makes him change agendas so frequently. I job I had a few years back in which another engineer and I were really getting jerked around by this older engineer, and it turns out he wasn't so innocently absentminded or disorganized: he would report to our boss that we weren't getting things done in the mean time and do stuff to undermine our work on equipment so we'd have to start over again. On the day I left, my boss was telling me, that "so-and-so will never be promoted", and that there was a hiring freeze (big corporation). Another friend in the know basically said this guy can't get fired because he's a minority. Ahh..the legacy of affirmative action. So the chain-yanker was playing the race card to secure his position. Apparently, fairly or not, his career had been shelved at a dead end and he was clinging to it by undermining anyone else up and coming. The whole place was a loss because of the inertia of management (and quite possibly the discrimination that resulted in token-hiring and dead-ending of minorities among other things). There was a lot of crap that brought out bad behavior in these people, and when the whole organization is infected with it, there's nothing you can do but leave for the sake of your own well-being.
Best of luck. I remember feeling the same bizarre elation when I finally quit my job, also. My relatives thought I was nuts, but there's no amount of description that really conveys how bad things were without them having actually been there themselves.
>> Edited by seafarer on Thursday 21st July 19:43
Rude-boy said:
Hope it all works out in the end for you, and don’t forget to send him a letter confirming that you understand that he has decided to give you the requisite 3 months notice terminating your contract and that you will be leaving his employ on the 21st October 2005.
Which sounds more like being made redundant than being fired. Don't know what your rights re that would be as not an employment lawyer, but as above, if fired you can leave whenever you choose.
Just don't assume you have a right to be paid for any work you carry out after you have been fired, i.e today.
I would have thought it would depend on how you have been fired. Normally the employer has to go through the three verbal and three written notices and have some sort of a reason. I'm pretty sure just saying 'You're fired' is no longer considered sufficient.
If you are fired properly then termination is at the point that you are fired and the notice period is irrelevant. Best bet is probably to get some advice regarding unfair dismissal (Citizens Advice?). You may be able to claw some cash back from greedy little git.
It is very honourable of you to be considering your colleagues work loads but I would suggest you need to look after number one first. If things are as bad as you say I can't imagine it will be long before they walk themselves or his irrational behaviour is turned on them in a similar way and they go too.
The sneaky side of me would suggest that your bosses clients are probably as wotsitted off with him as you are and it may be worth considering whether you and potentially your soon to be ex-colleagues may wish to support them without the aid of a middle man for a figure somewhere in between what they have been paying and you have been getting.
Good Luck
If you are fired properly then termination is at the point that you are fired and the notice period is irrelevant. Best bet is probably to get some advice regarding unfair dismissal (Citizens Advice?). You may be able to claw some cash back from greedy little git.
It is very honourable of you to be considering your colleagues work loads but I would suggest you need to look after number one first. If things are as bad as you say I can't imagine it will be long before they walk themselves or his irrational behaviour is turned on them in a similar way and they go too.
The sneaky side of me would suggest that your bosses clients are probably as wotsitted off with him as you are and it may be worth considering whether you and potentially your soon to be ex-colleagues may wish to support them without the aid of a middle man for a figure somewhere in between what they have been paying and you have been getting.
Good Luck
Yep reading what I have said and the words of others I’d have to agree that if you are fired you are free to go. I would still just clarify with him, in writing, what he expects you to do though as he sounds like a total tosser and likely to start blubing that he had had a bad day and so on.
I think, and someone please correct me if I'm wrong, that if your are 'fired' it has the same baring as being 'instantly dismissed'. Though this may depend on the particular employer.
There also has to be a pretty good reason to instantly dismiss someone. Gross misconduct, gross negligence etc. I doubt that "He stood up to me incessant buzzing" would hold much water in a tribunal should it go that far.
Otherwise I'm pretty sure they have to issue you a notice of termination/cessation of employment in accordance with any terms and conditions in your contract of employment. And in that notice it must state clearly the reasons why the notice has been given and also offer up a counselling opportunity to discuss the notice and it's implications.
Never was that good at contract law.
>> Edited by wizzpig on Thursday 21st July 19:52
There also has to be a pretty good reason to instantly dismiss someone. Gross misconduct, gross negligence etc. I doubt that "He stood up to me incessant buzzing" would hold much water in a tribunal should it go that far.
Otherwise I'm pretty sure they have to issue you a notice of termination/cessation of employment in accordance with any terms and conditions in your contract of employment. And in that notice it must state clearly the reasons why the notice has been given and also offer up a counselling opportunity to discuss the notice and it's implications.
Never was that good at contract law.
>> Edited by wizzpig on Thursday 21st July 19:52
If you are an employee and this is the first instance of trouble then you are in a very strong position.
All business's that employ staff should have procedures clearly identified relating to performance, discipline etc and if they fail to follow them then an Industrial Tribunal will almost automatically rule in your favour.
I am not advocating that going to tribunal is a sensible idea - that is up to you - but if he has made a mistake then you can use the threat of this as a negotiating tool to get good references etc.
Note down all your conversations with him including the sacking episode.
All business's that employ staff should have procedures clearly identified relating to performance, discipline etc and if they fail to follow them then an Industrial Tribunal will almost automatically rule in your favour.
I am not advocating that going to tribunal is a sensible idea - that is up to you - but if he has made a mistake then you can use the threat of this as a negotiating tool to get good references etc.
Note down all your conversations with him including the sacking episode.
Thanks everyone, this is all very positive.
I'm really not interested in going down the tribunal/unfair dismissal route, as mentioned it feels more like I've been handed an opportunity. Funny how we get stuck in these ruts and need a boot to get out eh?
The points about being sacked and working a period are valid, in my mind that's it, I've been sacked, why waste 3 months of my life doing something that eveidently I'm not enjoying.
I got an email through from him today...
Right just off to compose a reply, based whole heartedly on the responses posted here.
Thanks guys.
best
Ex
I'm really not interested in going down the tribunal/unfair dismissal route, as mentioned it feels more like I've been handed an opportunity. Funny how we get stuck in these ruts and need a boot to get out eh?
The points about being sacked and working a period are valid, in my mind that's it, I've been sacked, why waste 3 months of my life doing something that eveidently I'm not enjoying.
I got an email through from him today...
DisgruntledBoss said:
Lads,
I’m going to keep Adrian on for three months on condition he performs tasks he is set.
MrsEx said:
Oh, how big of him - he can kiss my arse!
Right just off to compose a reply, based whole heartedly on the responses posted here.
Thanks guys.
best
Ex
Part of me just wants to suggest that you do a 'Reply All' and say "You can kiss my big hairy arse - you fired me. See you at the Industrial Tribunal for Unfair Dismissal, dick weed." 
Although in reality what I'd probably do is hit 'Reply All' and say "As I understand it, you have fired me and as such... (blah blah)"
Although in reality what I'd probably do is hit 'Reply All' and say "As I understand it, you have fired me and as such... (blah blah)"
as a few others have said - if you are fired you are fired. its over. the 3 month larky is the boss thinking "oh crap i need a bit of time to replace him".
personally, i'd take a bit of advice at CAB/solictor, and walk straight out. i wouldn't make life easy on someone who you feel does not deserve it. btw, you are not letting your collegues down, your boss is.
personally, i'd take a bit of advice at CAB/solictor, and walk straight out. i wouldn't make life easy on someone who you feel does not deserve it. btw, you are not letting your collegues down, your boss is.
I was going to say I agreed with RaceBoy. Work the 3 months and use them to find something else.....
Until I read this;
him and the horse he rode in on.
Until I read this;
theexcession said:
I got an email through from him today...
DisgruntledBoss said:
Lads,
I’m going to keep Adrian on for three months on condition he performs tasks he is set.
him and the horse he rode in on.Gassing Station | The Pie & Piston Archive | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff