Company fined £180k for inflexible working hours
Discussion
BBC News - Woman refused 5pm finish wins £185,000 payout
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58473802
I can completely understand both sides of the argument, is anyone 'in the wrong' here?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58473802
I can completely understand both sides of the argument, is anyone 'in the wrong' here?
What the juddering f
k!! So can all the nursery workers that finish at 5pm choose their hours willy nilly on their lifestyle choices? Why should someone without kids work the less desirable hours and the people with kids get the 9-3s when joe singleton has to do the early morning shifts or later ones?
k!! So can all the nursery workers that finish at 5pm choose their hours willy nilly on their lifestyle choices? Why should someone without kids work the less desirable hours and the people with kids get the 9-3s when joe singleton has to do the early morning shifts or later ones?If I have a regular bowel movement at 4pm can I request to finish at 3.50pm every day to drop the kids off at the pool?
I cant see how this will scale for services industries but what employers could now refuse it. Picking between reasons is discrimination, as silly as that may be. What if I no longer find it convenient/possible to travel to a client's site due to my flexible working arrangements?
Nonsense at finest.
I cant see how this will scale for services industries but what employers could now refuse it. Picking between reasons is discrimination, as silly as that may be. What if I no longer find it convenient/possible to travel to a client's site due to my flexible working arrangements?
Nonsense at finest.
Edited by Thebaggers on Wednesday 8th September 00:10
vulture1 said:
What the juddering fk!! So can all the nursery workers that finish at 5pm choose their hours willy nilly on their lifestyle choices? Why should someone without kids work the less desirable hours and the people with kids get the 9-3s when joe singleton has to do the early morning shifts or later ones?
I agree with above.k!! So can all the nursery workers that finish at 5pm choose their hours willy nilly on their lifestyle choices? Why should someone without kids work the less desirable hours and the people with kids get the 9-3s when joe singleton has to do the early morning shifts or later ones?Also how is it sex discrimination (I understand that is what her employer was found guilty off) were men allowed to leave early to pick up their children?
vulture1 said:
What the juddering fk!! So can all the nursery workers that finish at 5pm choose their hours willy nilly on their lifestyle choices? Why should someone without kids work the less desirable hours and the people with kids get the 9-3s when joe singleton has to do the early morning shifts or later ones?
Her employer was found to be in the wrong because they refused to consider her request.k!! So can all the nursery workers that finish at 5pm choose their hours willy nilly on their lifestyle choices? Why should someone without kids work the less desirable hours and the people with kids get the 9-3s when joe singleton has to do the early morning shifts or later ones?Like it or not, she had a legal right to ask, and a legal right for that to be considered.
And, yes, we have to make some allowances for people with children. Because we need children to be born in order to have any shot at fixing the old age dependency ratio in this country. And because if women can't work, your house prices are going to fall
Also worth noting that her 1st year salary was £120k and in year 2 £60k +12% commission +bonus from (which, from my skim reading, paid out well over the £120k flat salary), and she was very successful
You'd think that shifting from 9-6 to 8-5 isn't a huge problem, given that it would even mean somebody is on the phones earlier if required, but apparently...
You'd think that shifting from 9-6 to 8-5 isn't a huge problem, given that it would even mean somebody is on the phones earlier if required, but apparently...
Edited by Gareth79 on Wednesday 8th September 02:17
Rufus Stone said:
Judgements like this just make women less likely to be employed.
She said she didn't do the tribunal for the money, she did it so her daughter wouldn't have to go through the same thing. She's right on that one, shes done her bit to ensure women like her don't get hired in the first place.
From my experience 5-6 is a busy hour for an estate agency as many people can leave work and attend a viewing right at the end of the day.
She had a baby and wanted to take it a bit easier at work, which is fine, but you are not necessarily going to be able to work the exact same job you did before if you go down that route. I know many part time accountants and bookkeepers who are mums and so that is the route they have gone down.
As a small firm they didn't tick every box when considering the request and so as a result they may have lost up to a year's profit as she had a card to play.
Yes a company should consider flexible working but it will not always work for them and there are two sides to the employee employer relationship.
She had a baby and wanted to take it a bit easier at work, which is fine, but you are not necessarily going to be able to work the exact same job you did before if you go down that route. I know many part time accountants and bookkeepers who are mums and so that is the route they have gone down.
As a small firm they didn't tick every box when considering the request and so as a result they may have lost up to a year's profit as she had a card to play.
Yes a company should consider flexible working but it will not always work for them and there are two sides to the employee employer relationship.
Stigproducts said:
Rufus Stone said:
Judgements like this just make women less likely to be employed.
She said she didn't do the tribunal for the money, she did it so her daughter wouldn't have to go through the same thing. She's right on that one, shes done her bit to ensure women like her don't get hired in the first place.
and
And why couldn't she take a couple of hours to find a nursery that finishes later, there is obviously a demand for it (until the judge stepped in).
Massive sense of entitlement. The employer moved a staff trip to New York from Nov to August so whe could still fly while pregnant. She was annoyed the rest of the group we t boozing while she couldn't.
As I read in another report the employer will be reluctant to employ married women of that age again.
As I read in another report the employer will be reluctant to employ married women of that age again.
JagLover said:
From my experience 5-6 is a busy hour for an estate agency as many people can leave work and attend a viewing right at the end of the day.
She had a baby and wanted to take it a bit easier at work, which is fine, but you are not necessarily going to be able to work the exact same job you did before if you go down that route. I know many part time accountants and bookkeepers who are mums and so that is the route they have gone down.
As a small firm they didn't tick every box when considering the request and so as a result they may have lost up to a year's profit as she had a card to play.
Yes a company should consider flexible working but it will not always work for them and there are two sides to the employee employer relationship.
Your last sentence is as the law stands but that employer must behave reasonably. In this case they did not as found by the courts.She had a baby and wanted to take it a bit easier at work, which is fine, but you are not necessarily going to be able to work the exact same job you did before if you go down that route. I know many part time accountants and bookkeepers who are mums and so that is the route they have gone down.
As a small firm they didn't tick every box when considering the request and so as a result they may have lost up to a year's profit as she had a card to play.
Yes a company should consider flexible working but it will not always work for them and there are two sides to the employee employer relationship.
Any person should be entitled to a reasonable degree of flexibility.
Perhaps it should be mandated the male parent should be legally obliged to take 50% of the care responsibility. That would certainly curtail some of the more extreme black and white views here.
I can’t believe people think she is in the wrong. Actually, I have been on PH along enough that I can believe it.
She made a request and the business failed in it’s basic legal obligation to consider it. They also went on a piss up to New York and they didn’t consider that, perhaps, a pregnant employee is going to be unable to participate and, maybe, will fee excluded.
This is a basic failure in empathy and good management, and the number of people on here defending the company is the reason why we have such problems in the U.K. with low productivity. Inflexible management like “Because that’s the way we work” and “well other people do this” is going to destroy companies that refuse to change. These are exactly the attitudes that is going to see more and more companies unable to fill vacancies over the next few years as worker shortages filter through the market, inflation hits wages and people consider work life balance.
She made a request and the business failed in it’s basic legal obligation to consider it. They also went on a piss up to New York and they didn’t consider that, perhaps, a pregnant employee is going to be unable to participate and, maybe, will fee excluded.
This is a basic failure in empathy and good management, and the number of people on here defending the company is the reason why we have such problems in the U.K. with low productivity. Inflexible management like “Because that’s the way we work” and “well other people do this” is going to destroy companies that refuse to change. These are exactly the attitudes that is going to see more and more companies unable to fill vacancies over the next few years as worker shortages filter through the market, inflation hits wages and people consider work life balance.
Electro1980 said:
I can’t believe people think she is in the wrong. Actually, I have been on PH along enough that I can believe it.
She made a request and the business failed in it’s basic legal obligation to consider it. They also went on a piss up to New York and they didn’t consider that, perhaps, a pregnant employee is going to be unable to participate and, maybe, will fee excluded.
This is a basic failure in empathy and good management, and the number of people on here defending the company is the reason why we have such problems in the U.K. with low productivity. Inflexible management like “Because that’s the way we work” and “well other people do this” is going to destroy companies that refuse to change. These are exactly the attitudes that is going to see more and more companies unable to fill vacancies over the next few years as worker shortages filter through the market, inflation hits wages and people consider work life balance.
It always makes me laugh when people here argue that we don't need equality laws because things are obviously much better for women, gay people, ethnic minorities etc. right now than they've ever been.She made a request and the business failed in it’s basic legal obligation to consider it. They also went on a piss up to New York and they didn’t consider that, perhaps, a pregnant employee is going to be unable to participate and, maybe, will fee excluded.
This is a basic failure in empathy and good management, and the number of people on here defending the company is the reason why we have such problems in the U.K. with low productivity. Inflexible management like “Because that’s the way we work” and “well other people do this” is going to destroy companies that refuse to change. These are exactly the attitudes that is going to see more and more companies unable to fill vacancies over the next few years as worker shortages filter through the market, inflation hits wages and people consider work life balance.
The irony that in a lot of cases that's only because of the legal obligations upon employers to handle certain situations in a particular way because if they don't there may be consequences seems to be lost.
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