Leaning toward vegetarianism/animal rights as you get older?
Discussion
I've always been a meat eater, grew up in the countryside around farming, used to do a bit of peasant shooting and beating on shoots, went to watch the local hunt set off on a regular occasion etc.
But over these last few years, I feel increasingly concerned, and slightly guilty about the treatment of animals.
I have no interest in changing the behaviour of others, but just from a personal point of view I feel a number of things are wrong that I previously would have cheerfully accepted.
I've enjoyed beating on shoots a few times each season for the last 7 or 8 years now, with a bit of shooting thrown in, but the last year I just became totally disillusioned with it and decided I didn't want to be part of what is essentially killing birds as sport. I was just horrified watching the birds getting winged and suffering, then having the break their necks and all that sort of thing. Image that sticks in my mind was a pheasant landing on the ground near me one day having been shot, and the poor thing was limping away, clearly absolutely terrified and in agony, and I just felt so bad. Like I was the worst person in the world for being part of it.
I also want absolutely nothing to do with fox hunting. Still know a couple of people who follow or ride in the local hunt, and I used to be happy to go along for a chat, and to admire the hounds and horses, but now I think they are pretty much just psychopaths who are desperate to see a fox killed by dogs. (Before anyone says "It's just trail hunting", it isn't. I've seen it and heard it).
Even animals as food now has me thinking about the fact that living things were slaughtered for me to enjoy a sausage, and I'm asking if it is really necessary. I have started trying a few meat replacement products here and there, and I don't mind them.
I accept that at present, I'm just a massive hypocrite who enjoys eating steak and wearing leather shoes, but doesn't want to see animals killed.
Could I turn full vegetarian? A few years ago I would have considered that idea to be completely ridiculous, but now I'm slightly tempted to give it a go.
Maybe I'm just turning into some kind of hippy in middle age
But over these last few years, I feel increasingly concerned, and slightly guilty about the treatment of animals.
I have no interest in changing the behaviour of others, but just from a personal point of view I feel a number of things are wrong that I previously would have cheerfully accepted.
I've enjoyed beating on shoots a few times each season for the last 7 or 8 years now, with a bit of shooting thrown in, but the last year I just became totally disillusioned with it and decided I didn't want to be part of what is essentially killing birds as sport. I was just horrified watching the birds getting winged and suffering, then having the break their necks and all that sort of thing. Image that sticks in my mind was a pheasant landing on the ground near me one day having been shot, and the poor thing was limping away, clearly absolutely terrified and in agony, and I just felt so bad. Like I was the worst person in the world for being part of it.
I also want absolutely nothing to do with fox hunting. Still know a couple of people who follow or ride in the local hunt, and I used to be happy to go along for a chat, and to admire the hounds and horses, but now I think they are pretty much just psychopaths who are desperate to see a fox killed by dogs. (Before anyone says "It's just trail hunting", it isn't. I've seen it and heard it).
Even animals as food now has me thinking about the fact that living things were slaughtered for me to enjoy a sausage, and I'm asking if it is really necessary. I have started trying a few meat replacement products here and there, and I don't mind them.
I accept that at present, I'm just a massive hypocrite who enjoys eating steak and wearing leather shoes, but doesn't want to see animals killed.
Could I turn full vegetarian? A few years ago I would have considered that idea to be completely ridiculous, but now I'm slightly tempted to give it a go.
Maybe I'm just turning into some kind of hippy in middle age
I don't think you are a hypocrite at all, the fact you are more conscious about the meat and animal products you use makes you appreciate them more. I eat meat and fish but have cut down massively and very much changed what meat and fish I eat. I've also been on shoots in the past and have killed animals to eat. Pheasant/Grouse shoots just don't make sense in this day and age and fox hunting, well that is a topic in its own right.
There is a huge difference between someone who is conscious about what and where their meat comes from and someone who blindly walks into a supermarket or fast food joint and does't give it a second thought. What ever people like to think, the rate of meat consumption and the type of meat we eat has to change and go down, it just isn't sustainable.
There is a huge difference between someone who is conscious about what and where their meat comes from and someone who blindly walks into a supermarket or fast food joint and does't give it a second thought. What ever people like to think, the rate of meat consumption and the type of meat we eat has to change and go down, it just isn't sustainable.
Edited by MonkeyMatt on Thursday 16th September 10:19
Interesting thread - I'll start off by saying that for me either V isn't for me.
The above being said I'm with you on killing for 'sport' - to me that seems barbaric (and I fully appreciate that either flavour of V might/does feel the same about me eating meat), to be honest I do feel that sport fishing is also 'unpleasant' (for want of a better phrase).
The above being said I'm with you on killing for 'sport' - to me that seems barbaric (and I fully appreciate that either flavour of V might/does feel the same about me eating meat), to be honest I do feel that sport fishing is also 'unpleasant' (for want of a better phrase).
Edited by DodgyGeezer on Thursday 16th September 10:30
My wife turned vegan as a result of becoming lactose intolerant in her 40s - it badly affected her, so diary was out. During the process of working out what was wrong and removing the painful issues she went full vegan. She's stuck with it. Both kids have gone veggie (in fact our son was veggie previously) due to animal rights issues.
As a result, I'm eating meat maybe once or twice a week - and small amounts at that.
I'm really enjoying the vegan cooking as it focuses on flavour (otherwise it can be really bland and boring). I would say my bowels are improved as a result too
Maybe once covid is over and I can travel for work more and eat out more, I'll enjoy returning to a meatier diet - but the only thing I really miss is the BBQ and smoker use.
As a result, I'm eating meat maybe once or twice a week - and small amounts at that.
I'm really enjoying the vegan cooking as it focuses on flavour (otherwise it can be really bland and boring). I would say my bowels are improved as a result too
Maybe once covid is over and I can travel for work more and eat out more, I'll enjoy returning to a meatier diet - but the only thing I really miss is the BBQ and smoker use.
Nothing wrong with just eating less meat, and choosing better quality or better treated stuff when you do. It doesn't have to be an all or nothing thing.
My wife has always been vegetarian, I was never that fussed about cooking meat or fish at home but would eat it in restaurants. Gradually slid into doing that less and less, and became almost entirely vegetarian a couple of years ago. I'm not ardent about it, if I'm going to an amazing steak restaurant I'm not having the veggie alternative. Day to day though I just don't feel the need.
My wife has always been vegetarian, I was never that fussed about cooking meat or fish at home but would eat it in restaurants. Gradually slid into doing that less and less, and became almost entirely vegetarian a couple of years ago. I'm not ardent about it, if I'm going to an amazing steak restaurant I'm not having the veggie alternative. Day to day though I just don't feel the need.
sjg said:
Nothing wrong with just eating less meat, and choosing better quality or better treated stuff when you do. It doesn't have to be an all or nothing thing.
My wife has always been vegetarian, I was never that fussed about cooking meat or fish at home but would eat it in restaurants. Gradually slid into doing that less and less, and became almost entirely vegetarian a couple of years ago. I'm not ardent about it, if I'm going to an amazing steak restaurant I'm not having the veggie alternative. Day to day though I just don't feel the need.
As I mentioned on the 'Bacon' thread, me and my wife are more choosy about where we buy meat. We rarely touch meat from the supermarket, and generally buy from a local butchers who sources locally.My wife has always been vegetarian, I was never that fussed about cooking meat or fish at home but would eat it in restaurants. Gradually slid into doing that less and less, and became almost entirely vegetarian a couple of years ago. I'm not ardent about it, if I'm going to an amazing steak restaurant I'm not having the veggie alternative. Day to day though I just don't feel the need.
Ready meals containing meat are pretty much a no-go in our house anyway as my wife hates them as "you don't know what they put in them" apparently... so when we do have a meat dish we have to make it from whatever we bought from the butchers.
By doing that we are already reducing our meat consumption a little, eating less meals that contain meat, and being more selective about where the meat comes from.
sjg said:
Nothing wrong with just eating less meat, and choosing better quality or better treated stuff when you do. It doesn't have to be an all or nothing thing.
+1 I'm very lucky to live next door to a small holder so the freezer is regularly restocked with well cared for, happy animals but when I doo buy supermarket food it's free range to try to salve my conscience.I also think (on shooting) that if it gets eaten then killing a wild animal even if not perfectly done is still infinitely better than the life an intensively farmed animal has lived. The big shoots where there are too many killed to hand out or process so they just get buried is pretty despicable though.
Ethically I have a problem with eating most animals because of the suffering caused and the impact on the environment. But I’ve not been able to put that into action and become vegetarian or vegan. Part of the problem is laziness and partly because I love eating out and trying new foods and mostly that involves meat and seafood.
I am not against hunting for food but fox hunting and bird shooting with beaters just seems cruel and unnecessary.
I am not against hunting for food but fox hunting and bird shooting with beaters just seems cruel and unnecessary.
I'm in France and smack in the middle of prime agriculture and hunting country.
I try my best to buy and eat very local produce.
I don't hunt but have done in past,but I'm happy to be given joints of wild meat regularly.
We buy a whole lamb that is raised 100 metres away from my house and the mrs butchers it.
Our milk is fresh from our neighboring farm along with eggs and sometimes chicken.
It's the same with potted meats and smoked products as its all in my village.
I really do get what the op is saying as I hate factory farming and try not to buy from that source.
Foxes are shot here as are most things that move. It's not for the faint hearted round these parts but a vast part of the U.K. used to be like that also.
I try my best to buy and eat very local produce.
I don't hunt but have done in past,but I'm happy to be given joints of wild meat regularly.
We buy a whole lamb that is raised 100 metres away from my house and the mrs butchers it.
Our milk is fresh from our neighboring farm along with eggs and sometimes chicken.
It's the same with potted meats and smoked products as its all in my village.
I really do get what the op is saying as I hate factory farming and try not to buy from that source.
Foxes are shot here as are most things that move. It's not for the faint hearted round these parts but a vast part of the U.K. used to be like that also.
otolith said:
I happily buy game from the butchers.
I'm not at all sure that the sum of its life and death is worse than the lot of the average farmed chicken.
Game is a tricky one, some pheasants are reared in the same way as battery hens and the grouse shooting industry is responsible for some pretty poor practices. Wood pigeon or venison I have no issues with, but some wildfowl and wild game birds needs to be very carefully controlled when it comes to numbersI'm not at all sure that the sum of its life and death is worse than the lot of the average farmed chicken.
Bill said:
+1 I'm very lucky to live next door to a small holder so the freezer is regularly restocked with well cared for, happy animals but when I doo buy supermarket food it's free range to try to salve my conscience.
I also think (on shooting) that if it gets eaten then killing a wild animal even if not perfectly done is still infinitely better than the life an intensively farmed animal has lived. The big shoots where there are too many killed to hand out or process so they just get buried is pretty despicable though.
I don't have a problem with someone shooting/killing an animal for food, but some of the pheasant shoots I went to would kill 500 birds a day and struggle to 'get rid' of them all. They would be asking local butchers to come and take them away, but even then there were a number of birds that were wasted or not collected in time and had started to go off.I also think (on shooting) that if it gets eaten then killing a wild animal even if not perfectly done is still infinitely better than the life an intensively farmed animal has lived. The big shoots where there are too many killed to hand out or process so they just get buried is pretty despicable though.
Worse than that was the fact that quite a few birds would be badly injured due to some shooters being piss poor, or just not hitting the bird fully. The dogs wouldn't always find the birds, and so they were just left to be wounded and die what I can only assume is a horrible death.
It's a shame in some ways as I liked the days at a shoot. It was always a fun atmosphere, a drinking session, a good laugh, good conversation, good exercise, always met a new bunch of interesting people each day. But I just can't be part of it anymore as I feel too bad about the birds. I've gone soft!
Lord Marylebone said:
Bill said:
+1 I'm very lucky to live next door to a small holder so the freezer is regularly restocked with well cared for, happy animals but when I doo buy supermarket food it's free range to try to salve my conscience.
I also think (on shooting) that if it gets eaten then killing a wild animal even if not perfectly done is still infinitely better than the life an intensively farmed animal has lived. The big shoots where there are too many killed to hand out or process so they just get buried is pretty despicable though.
I don't have a problem with someone shooting/killing an animal for food, but some of the pheasant shoots I went to would kill 500 birds a day and struggle to 'get rid' of them all. They would be asking local butchers to come and take them away, but even then there were a number of birds that were wasted or not collected in time and had started to go off.I also think (on shooting) that if it gets eaten then killing a wild animal even if not perfectly done is still infinitely better than the life an intensively farmed animal has lived. The big shoots where there are too many killed to hand out or process so they just get buried is pretty despicable though.
Worse than that was the fact that quite a few birds would be badly injured due to some shooters being piss poor, or just not hitting the bird fully. The dogs wouldn't always find the birds, and so they were just left to be wounded and die what I can only assume is a horrible death.
It's a shame in some ways as I liked the days at a shoot. It was always a fun atmosphere, a drinking session, a good laugh, good conversation, good exercise, always met a new bunch of interesting people each day. But I just can't be part of it anymore as I feel too bad about the birds. I've gone soft!
Ethically I don't see vegetarianism as being any better than eating meat in all honesty, as anyone who thinks animals aren't "sacrificed" in the process of vegetable farming is being a little bit deluded. Most of the fields they are grown in are massive ecosystems themselves, which get destroyed come harvest time, so I don't really see too much of a difference.
Having said that the one type of meat I do try to avoid is chicken, as even the free range ones aren't exactly living the life of riley, and there seem an awful lot of barbaric practices still go on - feeding live chicks into grinders etc - and it seems we need an awful lot of them to feed a family, compared to the bigger beasts out there. Probably helps that I'm not a huge fan of the meat itself - I find it very bland and dry, even when cooked properly.
I'm not in favour of hunting for sport unless it's pest control, and even then it should be done as humanely as possible.
Also couldn't go vegetarian/vegan, as there are only 3 vegetables I actually like, and I don't think subsisting on Potatoes, Carrots and Broccoli would really work to be honest. Plus we have a cat who likes bringing us presents every evening, so that would be a tough circle to square
tl:dr nah, not really.
Having said that the one type of meat I do try to avoid is chicken, as even the free range ones aren't exactly living the life of riley, and there seem an awful lot of barbaric practices still go on - feeding live chicks into grinders etc - and it seems we need an awful lot of them to feed a family, compared to the bigger beasts out there. Probably helps that I'm not a huge fan of the meat itself - I find it very bland and dry, even when cooked properly.
I'm not in favour of hunting for sport unless it's pest control, and even then it should be done as humanely as possible.
Also couldn't go vegetarian/vegan, as there are only 3 vegetables I actually like, and I don't think subsisting on Potatoes, Carrots and Broccoli would really work to be honest. Plus we have a cat who likes bringing us presents every evening, so that would be a tough circle to square
tl:dr nah, not really.
Have been a meat eater for as long as I remember. Dad was a full-on eat anything and everything bloke. I especially liked offal, bloody steaks, black pudding, the lot.
I have been 95% plant based for about a year now. The reason is twofold: health, and I just don't feel right about it. I'm not about to start telling others they should do the same too but I do think the meat industry has gone mental; there's just too much of it. For me it wasn't doing me any favours. Since cutting meat out, my joints no longer ache and I'm not getting the frequent gout flare-ups I used to suffer with. Plus, I feel a bit more in control of what I eat by way of awareness and planning.
Eggs and the occasional bit of fish is about the extent of my non-vegginess (still don't mind a bit of cheese and I will have the odd bite of the kids' chicken or burger) but I honestly don't miss it.
I have been 95% plant based for about a year now. The reason is twofold: health, and I just don't feel right about it. I'm not about to start telling others they should do the same too but I do think the meat industry has gone mental; there's just too much of it. For me it wasn't doing me any favours. Since cutting meat out, my joints no longer ache and I'm not getting the frequent gout flare-ups I used to suffer with. Plus, I feel a bit more in control of what I eat by way of awareness and planning.
Eggs and the occasional bit of fish is about the extent of my non-vegginess (still don't mind a bit of cheese and I will have the odd bite of the kids' chicken or burger) but I honestly don't miss it.
Without delving in to the ponderings of why, I'm similar in a way.
Firstly, I am a meat eater and thoroughly enjoy meat / fish and the general perks of being pretty much top of the food chain.
I have made peace with the reality that animals will be killed in order for that to happen, if you had to go to a slaughterhouse to earn a card enabling you to eat meat etc., I would go along and accept the harsh reality of it.
I am however more conscious of the environmental impact of eating meat now, and am inclined to take the vegetarian option on occasion at work (we have an amazing canteen) partially just if it sounds good or just as appealing as the meat based options, but also because it feels sensible to reduce my own consumption.
Likewise at home, we will cook an evening meal that doesn't contain any meat once or twice a week on average, whereas previously, cooking / deciding on a meal was basically deciding what meat, and then what to go with that meat.
Firstly, I am a meat eater and thoroughly enjoy meat / fish and the general perks of being pretty much top of the food chain.
I have made peace with the reality that animals will be killed in order for that to happen, if you had to go to a slaughterhouse to earn a card enabling you to eat meat etc., I would go along and accept the harsh reality of it.
I am however more conscious of the environmental impact of eating meat now, and am inclined to take the vegetarian option on occasion at work (we have an amazing canteen) partially just if it sounds good or just as appealing as the meat based options, but also because it feels sensible to reduce my own consumption.
Likewise at home, we will cook an evening meal that doesn't contain any meat once or twice a week on average, whereas previously, cooking / deciding on a meal was basically deciding what meat, and then what to go with that meat.
bodhi said:
Ethically I don't see vegetarianism as being any better than eating meat in all honesty, as anyone who thinks animals aren't "sacrificed" in the process of vegetable farming is being a little bit deluded. Most of the fields they are grown in are massive ecosystems themselves, which get destroyed come harvest time, so I don't really see too much of a difference.
Having said that the one type of meat I do try to avoid is chicken, as even the free range ones aren't exactly living the life of riley, and there seem an awful lot of barbaric practices still go on - feeding live chicks into grinders etc - and it seems we need an awful lot of them to feed a family, compared to the bigger beasts out there. Probably helps that I'm not a huge fan of the meat itself - I find it very bland and dry, even when cooked properly.
I'm not in favour of hunting for sport unless it's pest control, and even then it should be done as humanely as possible.
Also couldn't go vegetarian/vegan, as there are only 3 vegetables I actually like, and I don't think subsisting on Potatoes, Carrots and Broccoli would really work to be honest. Plus we have a cat who likes bringing us presents every evening, so that would be a tough circle to square
tl:dr nah, not really.
Precisely why I don't eat Chicken (other than some very rare exceptions)Having said that the one type of meat I do try to avoid is chicken, as even the free range ones aren't exactly living the life of riley, and there seem an awful lot of barbaric practices still go on - feeding live chicks into grinders etc - and it seems we need an awful lot of them to feed a family, compared to the bigger beasts out there. Probably helps that I'm not a huge fan of the meat itself - I find it very bland and dry, even when cooked properly.
I'm not in favour of hunting for sport unless it's pest control, and even then it should be done as humanely as possible.
Also couldn't go vegetarian/vegan, as there are only 3 vegetables I actually like, and I don't think subsisting on Potatoes, Carrots and Broccoli would really work to be honest. Plus we have a cat who likes bringing us presents every evening, so that would be a tough circle to square
tl:dr nah, not really.
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