Missing Woman Gabby Petito
Discussion
This story appears to be gaining traction. A young lady and her fiancé live in their camper van and document their travels around America on YouTube.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-5857971...
Her fiancé has since arrived back in their home in Florida but without Gabby. She was last in contact with her family in late August when the couple were in Wyoming.
It appears her fiancé drove her van from Wyoming to Florida but won’t say anything to police about her whereabouts or the events leading up to her disappearance because in America anything he says ‘will be used against him’. This tactic would have got him arrested in the UK but in America presumably because of no probable cause, it hasn’t. Obviously this tactic has also hampered the search for her. I genuinely hope she’s found safe.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-5857971...
Her fiancé has since arrived back in their home in Florida but without Gabby. She was last in contact with her family in late August when the couple were in Wyoming.
It appears her fiancé drove her van from Wyoming to Florida but won’t say anything to police about her whereabouts or the events leading up to her disappearance because in America anything he says ‘will be used against him’. This tactic would have got him arrested in the UK but in America presumably because of no probable cause, it hasn’t. Obviously this tactic has also hampered the search for her. I genuinely hope she’s found safe.
sebdangerfield said:
This story appears to be gaining traction. A young lady and her fiancé live in their camper van and document their travels around America on YouTube.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-5857971...
Her fiancé has since arrived back in their home in Florida but without Gabby. She was last in contact with her family in late August when the couple were in Wyoming.
It appears her fiancé drove her van from Wyoming to Florida but won’t say anything to police about her whereabouts or the events leading up to her disappearance because in America anything he says ‘will be used against him’. This tactic would have got him arrested in the UK but in America presumably because of no probable cause, it hasn’t. Obviously this tactic has also hampered the search for her. I genuinely hope she’s found safe.
I’d read up a little more on the case and the Police involvement with this lady attacking her partner before jumping to any conclusions. Hopefully it’ll all be ok for both of them.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-5857971...
Her fiancé has since arrived back in their home in Florida but without Gabby. She was last in contact with her family in late August when the couple were in Wyoming.
It appears her fiancé drove her van from Wyoming to Florida but won’t say anything to police about her whereabouts or the events leading up to her disappearance because in America anything he says ‘will be used against him’. This tactic would have got him arrested in the UK but in America presumably because of no probable cause, it hasn’t. Obviously this tactic has also hampered the search for her. I genuinely hope she’s found safe.
Smiljan said:
I’d read up a little more on the case and the Police involvement with this lady attacking her partner before jumping to any conclusions. Hopefully it’ll all be ok for both of them.
I don’t think there is any “jumping” needed. It’s tacitly obvious what’s happened. Just needs to be proved.Smiljan said:
I’d read up a little more on the case and the Police involvement with this lady attacking her partner before jumping to any conclusions. Hopefully it’ll all be ok for both of them.
What part of what I wrote about the unknown occurrence have you interpreted as a conclusion? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCGsW41aQEw
Police spoke to the both of them before she disappeared, not sure when this was filmed.
Police spoke to the both of them before she disappeared, not sure when this was filmed.
knitware said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCGsW41aQEw
Police spoke to the both of them before she disappeared, not sure when this was filmed.
Thanks. I’d seen this incident referred to in some of the news reports. I wonder if it’s this incident that has cast doubt on probable cause and stopped US police from arresting him. Police spoke to the both of them before she disappeared, not sure when this was filmed.
It’s the fact he’s refusing to say anything yet hasn’t been arrested which interests me as when compared to UK law he’d have been arrested in these circumstances and refusing to account for why she’s no longer with him.
An arrest is a short term measure to secure a suspect or evidence.
If he was in the UK, he'd still just say nothing if arrested (as he would no doubt do if arrested in the USA) so it wouldn't move anything forward.
Once the police find the evidence, I'm sure the arrest will follow.
No point doing so until then, as it would just be a waste of time.
(In case people haven't detected it in my answer, I fear the worst for the missing woman, though I would gladly be proved wrong)
If he was in the UK, he'd still just say nothing if arrested (as he would no doubt do if arrested in the USA) so it wouldn't move anything forward.
Once the police find the evidence, I'm sure the arrest will follow.
No point doing so until then, as it would just be a waste of time.
(In case people haven't detected it in my answer, I fear the worst for the missing woman, though I would gladly be proved wrong)
Ian Geary said:
An arrest is a short term measure to secure a suspect or evidence.
If he was in the UK, he'd still just say nothing if arrested (as he would no doubt do if arrested in the USA) so it wouldn't move anything forward.
Once the police find the evidence, I'm sure the arrest will follow.
No point doing so until then, as it would just be a waste of time.
(In case people haven't detected it in my answer, I fear the worst for the missing woman, though I would gladly be proved wrong)
Really fair point. In the UK though arrest brings other investigative opportunities which are absolutely time critical such as searching things controlled by the detainee. Forensic samples from the detainee such as gun shot residue and swabs. Seizure of digital media such as telephones iPads and computers which could all be analysed to build up a lifestyle supporting if they’ve been arguing etc. but more importantly to geo locate him on his journey to drive the search for CCTV. All of these things and more are time critical and have to be done before the evidence, or equality important lack of it, is lost. If he was in the UK, he'd still just say nothing if arrested (as he would no doubt do if arrested in the USA) so it wouldn't move anything forward.
Once the police find the evidence, I'm sure the arrest will follow.
No point doing so until then, as it would just be a waste of time.
(In case people haven't detected it in my answer, I fear the worst for the missing woman, though I would gladly be proved wrong)
Smiljan said:
No problem, apology accepted
Probably not the thread for you if the news triggers you but you can’t explain why. For anyone else though it certainly highlights the stark differences in tactics and law between the US and UK when dealing with an incident like this.
I’m still genuinely surprised that he’s not been arrested so I’d be interested in anyone with knowledge of why the US would do things this way. Perhaps it’s legal nuance but do GSR samples and swabs not need an arrest first in the US?
sebdangerfield said:
Probably not the thread for you if the news triggers you but you can’t explain why. For anyone else though it certainly highlights the stark differences in tactics and law between the US and UK when dealing with an incident like this.
I’m still genuinely surprised that he’s not been arrested so I’d be interested in anyone with knowledge of why the US would do things this way. Perhaps it’s legal nuance but do GSR samples and swabs not need an arrest first in the US?
Couple of thoughts reading this thread -
Wyoming to Florida is 2000 miles, about the same as London to Athens so even the police had his exact route I’m sure there are gaps of tens of miles between cameras and what would ‘they were seen together in London but he was on his own in Dover’ actually prove?
If someone owns a gun and regularly shoots it for fun I’m sure most of their clothing will have gun shot residue on it, it’s hardly the evidence of wrong doing that it would be here in the UK.
Hopefully the truth is something along the lines of they had a blazing row, she got out the van, he drove off and she’s holed up in a motel somewhere.
Wyoming to Florida is 2000 miles, about the same as London to Athens so even the police had his exact route I’m sure there are gaps of tens of miles between cameras and what would ‘they were seen together in London but he was on his own in Dover’ actually prove?
If someone owns a gun and regularly shoots it for fun I’m sure most of their clothing will have gun shot residue on it, it’s hardly the evidence of wrong doing that it would be here in the UK.
Hopefully the truth is something along the lines of they had a blazing row, she got out the van, he drove off and she’s holed up in a motel somewhere.
sebdangerfield said:
Probably not the thread for you if the news triggers you but you can’t explain why. For anyone else though it certainly highlights the stark differences in tactics and law between the US and UK when dealing with an incident like this.
I’m still genuinely surprised that he’s not been arrested so I’d be interested in anyone with knowledge of why the US would do things this way. Perhaps it’s legal nuance but do GSR samples and swabs not need an arrest first in the US?
I’m not “triggered” whatever you mean by that.
It’s basically a missing persons case where the closest person to the missing has been advised not to comment to the Police by his legal council. It is an interesting case given the whole YouTube van life angle plus the previous Police interactions the couple had but there is very little to go on.
In Florida you can be arrested if the police reasonably believe a felony has been committed, there is zero evidence that has happened. The took the van and the FBI are involved but if you look at the FBI missing persons site there are over 400 pages of unsolved cases so it’s not a given we’ll ever find out what has happened.
To me there seems to be several possibilities - he killed her dumped the body, incredibly stupid considering he’s obviously going to be scrutinised intensely. They planned this whole thing together to get famous and sell a story off the back of it or make some tedious YouTube follow up. She went out one night while camping, disappeared and he hasn’t a clue what happened to her (they are already loosely linking this with a double murder of another van life couple on the same path as these two recently). Or she has just disappeared of her own accord and will turn up when she runs out of money.
I’ve seen enough true crime documentaries to know US Police routinely coerce witnesses into a a narrative they create to gain a conviction which leave innocent people locked up for very long periods. It happens and his council advising him not to comment is pretty shrewd.
As pointed out above the journey is long - and also goes through Wyoming, Nebraska, Tennessee - areas with vast open wilderness. Looking for her is literally like a needle in a haystack at this point.
Seems it wasn’t all fun and games along the route either, with arguments serious enough for bystanders to call 911 -
https://youtu.be/yCnhNpI6j6E
A good description of why police use ‘person of interest’ rather than suspect in America is described here -
https://www.wfla.com/news/sarasota-county/person-o...
But basically boils down to police avoiding being sued for slander.
Seems it wasn’t all fun and games along the route either, with arguments serious enough for bystanders to call 911 -
https://youtu.be/yCnhNpI6j6E
A good description of why police use ‘person of interest’ rather than suspect in America is described here -
https://www.wfla.com/news/sarasota-county/person-o...
But basically boils down to police avoiding being sued for slander.
Smiljan said:
What would they arrest him for? What crime?
I’m not “triggered” whatever you mean by that.
It’s basically a missing persons case where the closest person to the missing has been advised not to comment to the Police by his legal council. It is an interesting case given the whole YouTube van life angle plus the previous Police interactions the couple had but there is very little to go on.
In Florida you can be arrested if the police reasonably believe a felony has been committed, there is zero evidence that has happened. The took the van and the FBI are involved but if you look at the FBI missing persons site there are over 400 pages of unsolved cases so it’s not a given we’ll ever find out what has happened.
To me there seems to be several possibilities - he killed her dumped the body, incredibly stupid considering he’s obviously going to be scrutinised intensely. They planned this whole thing together to get famous and sell a story off the back of it or make some tedious YouTube follow up. She went out one night while camping, disappeared and he hasn’t a clue what happened to her (they are already loosely linking this with a double murder of another van life couple on the same path as these two recently). Or she has just disappeared of her own accord and will turn up when she runs out of money.
I’ve seen enough true crime documentaries to know US Police routinely coerce witnesses into a a narrative they create to gain a conviction which leave innocent people locked up for very long periods. It happens and his council advising him not to comment is pretty shrewd.
I genuinely appreciate you adding some detail around what you're saying and for what it's worth I think we agree. At this stage it's certainly probable that this is still a missing person case, this hypothesis is support further by Gabby's apparent mental health challenges she's experience recently and, as you point out, the fact there's no evidence to the contrary. However what I'm interesting in is the way US police are dealing with it compared to how UK police would.I’m not “triggered” whatever you mean by that.
It’s basically a missing persons case where the closest person to the missing has been advised not to comment to the Police by his legal council. It is an interesting case given the whole YouTube van life angle plus the previous Police interactions the couple had but there is very little to go on.
In Florida you can be arrested if the police reasonably believe a felony has been committed, there is zero evidence that has happened. The took the van and the FBI are involved but if you look at the FBI missing persons site there are over 400 pages of unsolved cases so it’s not a given we’ll ever find out what has happened.
To me there seems to be several possibilities - he killed her dumped the body, incredibly stupid considering he’s obviously going to be scrutinised intensely. They planned this whole thing together to get famous and sell a story off the back of it or make some tedious YouTube follow up. She went out one night while camping, disappeared and he hasn’t a clue what happened to her (they are already loosely linking this with a double murder of another van life couple on the same path as these two recently). Or she has just disappeared of her own accord and will turn up when she runs out of money.
I’ve seen enough true crime documentaries to know US Police routinely coerce witnesses into a a narrative they create to gain a conviction which leave innocent people locked up for very long periods. It happens and his council advising him not to comment is pretty shrewd.
There are also some great points regarding the huge area making CCTV pointless and GSR being unnecessary if he's a regular shooter amongst other things quite rightly pointing out that none of that evidence is evidence of wrongdoing. From my experience in the UK though all of this evidence still needs to be obtained. Taking the GSR scenario as an example what if (and I hope this isn't the case) a body is found with gunshot injuries. If by the time a body is located any GSR would be gone from his hands but equally, what if then he's saying he's never fired a gun in his life? That's a huge amount of evidence his defence would want but the police failed to recover it.
What about the distance of the journey? It's quite right that cameras could be tens of miles apart, much more possibly. But if it can be ascertained that she was with him at camera A and then not with him at camera B 50 miles away then more detailed work can be done then to look in finer detail in that area.
Further on up the thread there's a good comparison with the Shannon Matthews case where her parents weren't arrested. The big difference for me is that her parents talked to police and gave their accounts. They gave the impression they were assisting and weren't arrested until their lies became clear. Had they reported Shannon missing but then refused to tell police how or why then they would have been arrested. In this case we have a young couple travelling together and one of the couple is now missing. Then her partner who would be reasonably expected to have been with her, due to the fact they were living together in her van has now returned home without her and is refusing to assist the police in the their enquiries to locate her. Had that been the case in the UK he would have been arrested and the time critical enquires which I've outlined such as GSR, CCTV, Digital media examination would all be expedited before that evidence, or lack of it is lost and the evidence can no longer assist the case of refute his involvement.
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