£5-6k fun, reliable, probably a hatch
Discussion
I may be in the unfortunate position of looking to downgrade from an M140i. It doesn't get used enough to warrant the outlay and is on the potential chopping block as we try to save a few pennies. I fully expect to be back in a B58 engined car at some point in future because it's fething marvellous!
I'll have around 5-6k. I'm looking for something with a decent amount of poke (180bhp+ as a ball park). I loved my Mk7.5 Fiesta ST and would happily have another, but my price range gets the ropiest Cat N examples on Autotrader, I'd far rather buy a better conditioned car of another model, given this is meant to be a cost cutting exercise.
I'll need real back seats for an ever growing miniature human but could make do with 3 doors. Other than that reliability and a bit of fun are the only other requirements. Which probably leads me towards Warm/Hot hatch territory (well, what would have been hot 10 years ago, now you need 300bhp and 4wd to be a hot hatch it seems)
I'd never considered one before but if you put all the above into Autotrader you get a LOT of Citroens, namely the DS3. Given the fact there appears to be a million examples ranging up to 10 years old are these, in fact, more reliable than the badge would suggest?
There's a few Renault Sports in this price range, I know the 172/82 was great fun but liked to bork itself on occasion and I know relatively little about the 197/198/200 etc.
I'll have around 5-6k. I'm looking for something with a decent amount of poke (180bhp+ as a ball park). I loved my Mk7.5 Fiesta ST and would happily have another, but my price range gets the ropiest Cat N examples on Autotrader, I'd far rather buy a better conditioned car of another model, given this is meant to be a cost cutting exercise.
I'll need real back seats for an ever growing miniature human but could make do with 3 doors. Other than that reliability and a bit of fun are the only other requirements. Which probably leads me towards Warm/Hot hatch territory (well, what would have been hot 10 years ago, now you need 300bhp and 4wd to be a hot hatch it seems)
I'd never considered one before but if you put all the above into Autotrader you get a LOT of Citroens, namely the DS3. Given the fact there appears to be a million examples ranging up to 10 years old are these, in fact, more reliable than the badge would suggest?
There's a few Renault Sports in this price range, I know the 172/82 was great fun but liked to bork itself on occasion and I know relatively little about the 197/198/200 etc.
If you enjoyed the ST you could look at a Peugeot 208 GTi, I think you can just about squeeze one into your budget with a bit of haggling. Great fun to drive like the ST and similar sort of running costs so you know what you’re getting.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202109167...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202109167...
randomman said:
I may be in the unfortunate position of looking to downgrade from an M140i. It doesn't get used enough to warrant the outlay and is on the potential chopping block as we try to save a few pennies. I fully expect to be back in a B58 engined car at some point in future because it's fething marvellous!
I'll have around 5-6k. I'm looking for something with a decent amount of poke (180bhp+ as a ball park). I loved my Mk7.5 Fiesta ST and would happily have another, but my price range gets the ropiest Cat N examples on Autotrader, I'd far rather buy a better conditioned car of another model, given this is meant to be a cost cutting exercise.
I'll need real back seats for an ever growing miniature human but could make do with 3 doors. Other than that reliability and a bit of fun are the only other requirements. Which probably leads me towards Warm/Hot hatch territory (well, what would have been hot 10 years ago, now you need 300bhp and 4wd to be a hot hatch it seems)
I'd never considered one before but if you put all the above into Autotrader you get a LOT of Citroens, namely the DS3. Given the fact there appears to be a million examples ranging up to 10 years old are these, in fact, more reliable than the badge would suggest?
There's a few Renault Sports in this price range, I know the 172/82 was great fun but liked to bork itself on occasion and I know relatively little about the 197/198/200 etc.
Five door Focus ST ticks a lot of boxes & it has that peach of a five pot:I'll have around 5-6k. I'm looking for something with a decent amount of poke (180bhp+ as a ball park). I loved my Mk7.5 Fiesta ST and would happily have another, but my price range gets the ropiest Cat N examples on Autotrader, I'd far rather buy a better conditioned car of another model, given this is meant to be a cost cutting exercise.
I'll need real back seats for an ever growing miniature human but could make do with 3 doors. Other than that reliability and a bit of fun are the only other requirements. Which probably leads me towards Warm/Hot hatch territory (well, what would have been hot 10 years ago, now you need 300bhp and 4wd to be a hot hatch it seems)
I'd never considered one before but if you put all the above into Autotrader you get a LOT of Citroens, namely the DS3. Given the fact there appears to be a million examples ranging up to 10 years old are these, in fact, more reliable than the badge would suggest?
There's a few Renault Sports in this price range, I know the 172/82 was great fun but liked to bork itself on occasion and I know relatively little about the 197/198/200 etc.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202109157...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202101248...
If you can live with three doors then the 208 GTI is a very good option a smidge behind the Fiesta ST but still fun with a better ride too:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202109177...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202108316...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202108196...
With a little haggling you should be able to get A Giulietta Cloverleaf for your budget & as good as the ST is, I think this might suit your needs better:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202109127...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202109077...
Not as good a steer as the above but a CLC230 might work for you:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202107215...
The DS3's are good but with your budget you'll be looking at the DSport Plus 150 which is still good but I'd take the 208 GTI everytime:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202108316...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202108246...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202109177...
randomman said:
I may be in the unfortunate position of looking to downgrade from an M140i. It doesn't get used enough to warrant the outlay and is on the potential chopping block as we try to save a few pennies. I fully expect to be back in a B58 engined car at some point in future because it's fething marvellous!
I'll have around 5-6k. I'm looking for something with a decent amount of poke (180bhp+ as a ball park). I loved my Mk7.5 Fiesta ST and would happily have another, but my price range gets the ropiest Cat N examples on Autotrader, I'd far rather buy a better conditioned car of another model, given this is meant to be a cost cutting exercise.
I'll need real back seats for an ever growing miniature human but could make do with 3 doors. Other than that reliability and a bit of fun are the only other requirements. Which probably leads me towards Warm/Hot hatch territory (well, what would have been hot 10 years ago, now you need 300bhp and 4wd to be a hot hatch it seems)
I'd never considered one before but if you put all the above into Autotrader you get a LOT of Citroens, namely the DS3. Given the fact there appears to be a million examples ranging up to 10 years old are these, in fact, more reliable than the badge would suggest?
There's a few Renault Sports in this price range, I know the 172/82 was great fun but liked to bork itself on occasion and I know relatively little about the 197/198/200 etc.
How about a BMW 130i? You still get rear-wheel-drive, a straight-six and 261bhp…I'll have around 5-6k. I'm looking for something with a decent amount of poke (180bhp+ as a ball park). I loved my Mk7.5 Fiesta ST and would happily have another, but my price range gets the ropiest Cat N examples on Autotrader, I'd far rather buy a better conditioned car of another model, given this is meant to be a cost cutting exercise.
I'll need real back seats for an ever growing miniature human but could make do with 3 doors. Other than that reliability and a bit of fun are the only other requirements. Which probably leads me towards Warm/Hot hatch territory (well, what would have been hot 10 years ago, now you need 300bhp and 4wd to be a hot hatch it seems)
I'd never considered one before but if you put all the above into Autotrader you get a LOT of Citroens, namely the DS3. Given the fact there appears to be a million examples ranging up to 10 years old are these, in fact, more reliable than the badge would suggest?
There's a few Renault Sports in this price range, I know the 172/82 was great fun but liked to bork itself on occasion and I know relatively little about the 197/198/200 etc.
I had a work M140i at the same time as my own 130i and preferred the older car’s steering, engine and general feel. It also has a better balance of power and traction. You should be able to get a reasonable one for £6k.
I don't think those Citroens were particularly reliable, they had the 1.6 Prince/N13 engine. You might notice there are not many with over 100k miles, there is a reason for that as the HPFP dies or the timing chain lets go and the engine lunches itself.
As ZX10R has pointed out, a 5 cylinder Focus ST would definitely go some way to filling the void left by your 140i. Here's a nice one
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202109057...
A cut price and more subtle 5 cylinder alternative to the above - Volvo S40 T5
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202109157...
A Giulietta TBi might be slightly out of budget, especially for a good one as they can suffer from blown turbos if they haven't had frequent oil changes and the Getrag M32 gearboxes have been known to struggle with the amount of torque they make. On the other hand the 1.4 TBs are very reliable, much cheaper and still quite fun to drive. A remap will get them to 200 bhp.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202109177...
Renaultsport Clio 2.0 VVT
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202108296...
Behold the magnificence of this low mileage MG ZT 190
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202109137...
If you go for either of these, you have to promise you will look after them...
Alfa Romeo GTV 3.0 V6 24V Lusso
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202109147...
Fiat Coupe 20V Turbo
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202108176...
As ZX10R has pointed out, a 5 cylinder Focus ST would definitely go some way to filling the void left by your 140i. Here's a nice one
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202109057...
A cut price and more subtle 5 cylinder alternative to the above - Volvo S40 T5
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202109157...
A Giulietta TBi might be slightly out of budget, especially for a good one as they can suffer from blown turbos if they haven't had frequent oil changes and the Getrag M32 gearboxes have been known to struggle with the amount of torque they make. On the other hand the 1.4 TBs are very reliable, much cheaper and still quite fun to drive. A remap will get them to 200 bhp.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202109177...
Renaultsport Clio 2.0 VVT
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202108296...
Behold the magnificence of this low mileage MG ZT 190
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202109137...
If you go for either of these, you have to promise you will look after them...
Alfa Romeo GTV 3.0 V6 24V Lusso
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202109147...
Fiat Coupe 20V Turbo
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202108176...
Thank you all for the suggestions so far.
I had heard horror stories of the PSA 1.6 (mainly through telling them to my dad after he bought a Mini Cooper S with one in) so thank you for reminding me!
The Focus is a great spot, god I idolised these back in the Early 2000s, really wont take much to reawaken my inner "yoot" and buy one in Asbo Orange, because why not! I guess I need to decide if this is a stop gap or something I could grow to enjoy over a couple of years (when comparing to S40s) on a side note there's a 2009 C30 with the 2.5 engine up for 12k on Autotrader, which Autotrader says is a "great price" WTF am I missing here!?
One concern with the BMW would be the potential for big bills, we are at a lull in the normal slush fund at present so would need something to either hang on, or be cheap to fix. I would worry a little, but know from looking a few years back that the *30i BMW engine is pretty tight by all accounts.
The Pug 208 Gti engine, is it the same as the aforementioned one in the Citroens and Mini or had it been revised by this point? If so I think I'll have to drive one as a lot of the reviews put it pretty tight to the Fiesta ST.
Alfas and a Fiat Coupe? I think we'd enjoy a pint together, quality taste in motors, however I don't think they'll be fitting the bill this time around!
What are people's thoughts on the FN2 civic? Would have a few more miles on that some of the other suggestions but they seem pretty bulletproof. I worry about the suspension though, sorry to sound old but I test drove a 1.8i many years ago and I was glad to get into the relative comfort of my MR2 Roadster afterwards, which is normally as comfortable as being stabbed.
I had heard horror stories of the PSA 1.6 (mainly through telling them to my dad after he bought a Mini Cooper S with one in) so thank you for reminding me!
The Focus is a great spot, god I idolised these back in the Early 2000s, really wont take much to reawaken my inner "yoot" and buy one in Asbo Orange, because why not! I guess I need to decide if this is a stop gap or something I could grow to enjoy over a couple of years (when comparing to S40s) on a side note there's a 2009 C30 with the 2.5 engine up for 12k on Autotrader, which Autotrader says is a "great price" WTF am I missing here!?
One concern with the BMW would be the potential for big bills, we are at a lull in the normal slush fund at present so would need something to either hang on, or be cheap to fix. I would worry a little, but know from looking a few years back that the *30i BMW engine is pretty tight by all accounts.
The Pug 208 Gti engine, is it the same as the aforementioned one in the Citroens and Mini or had it been revised by this point? If so I think I'll have to drive one as a lot of the reviews put it pretty tight to the Fiesta ST.
Alfas and a Fiat Coupe? I think we'd enjoy a pint together, quality taste in motors, however I don't think they'll be fitting the bill this time around!
What are people's thoughts on the FN2 civic? Would have a few more miles on that some of the other suggestions but they seem pretty bulletproof. I worry about the suspension though, sorry to sound old but I test drove a 1.8i many years ago and I was glad to get into the relative comfort of my MR2 Roadster afterwards, which is normally as comfortable as being stabbed.
georgeyboy12345 said:
I don't think those Citroens were particularly reliable, they had the 1.6 Prince/N13 engine. You might notice there are not many with over 100k miles, there is a reason for that as the HPFP dies or the timing chain lets go and the engine lunches itself.
Early Prince engines did have that issue but post 2010 they were much improved & with the OP's budget he'll be well clear of any engine issues as the Citroen's are running a detuned version of the 208 GTi (which is still a Prince engine)randomman said:
One concern with the BMW would be the potential for big bills, we are at a lull in the normal slush fund at present so would need something to either hang on, or be cheap to fix. I would worry a little, but know from looking a few years back that the *30i BMW engine is pretty tight by all accounts.
The N52 engine in the 130i is pretty bullet proof, one common issue to look for are leaks around the rocker cover gasket (around £300 to fix). Water-pumps are common to replace (on any car they are?) but doesn't affect the engine if it fails, budget around £500 - 700 if it hasn't been done. Besides that just look for good service history - good signs are gearbox and diff oil fluid changes along with regular oil changes. You'll get a easy 30mpg as a daily and the noise is perhaps the best of all the BMW straight sixes. Yes, the N52 in the 130i is pretty bullet-proof in my experience.
I've had two in Z4s then had an E91 325i. It had done 139K miles when I sold it and still ran swetly, although it did need a new water pump at 135K. I got a new one fitted by a BMW Indy for £540.
But I've replaced it with an E90 330i that is now on 115K that also runs really well. And they have all averaged over 30mpg.
I've had two in Z4s then had an E91 325i. It had done 139K miles when I sold it and still ran swetly, although it did need a new water pump at 135K. I got a new one fitted by a BMW Indy for £540.
But I've replaced it with an E90 330i that is now on 115K that also runs really well. And they have all averaged over 30mpg.
Megane 225 - says cambelt been done as well.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202107175...
Cheap Diesel Megane RS
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202006220...
330D
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202109197...
Golf GTi
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202109077...
Fabia VRS
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202109147...
Low mileage Insignia VXR
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202107305...
Low mileage Fiesta ST ( 2.0 litre) - looks immaculate in the pics.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202109207...
Orange Focus ST
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202109207...
Mini Cooper S Coupe
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202109187...
Civic Type R
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202109087...
Another Orange Focus ST
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202108316...
Astra VXR
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202109227...
John Cooper Works Mini with rebuilt engine
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202109177...
astra GTC
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202109167...
Leon Cupra
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202109147...
Mini John Cooper Works
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202109127...
Astra GTC
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202109117...
Corsa VXR
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202109107...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202107175...
Cheap Diesel Megane RS
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202006220...
330D
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202109197...
Golf GTi
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202109077...
Fabia VRS
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202109147...
Low mileage Insignia VXR
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202107305...
Low mileage Fiesta ST ( 2.0 litre) - looks immaculate in the pics.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202109207...
Orange Focus ST
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202109207...
Mini Cooper S Coupe
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202109187...
Civic Type R
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202109087...
Another Orange Focus ST
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202108316...
Astra VXR
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202109227...
John Cooper Works Mini with rebuilt engine
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202109177...
astra GTC
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202109167...
Leon Cupra
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202109147...
Mini John Cooper Works
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202109127...
Astra GTC
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202109117...
Corsa VXR
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202109107...
Edited by classicfred on Friday 24th September 01:19
Edited by classicfred on Friday 24th September 04:22
randomman said:
What are people's thoughts on the FN2 civic? Would have a few more miles on that some of the other suggestions but they seem pretty bulletproof. I worry about the suspension though, sorry to sound old but I test drove a 1.8i many years ago and I was glad to get into the relative comfort of my MR2 Roadster afterwards, which is normally as comfortable as being stabbed.
I've recently sold mine (and wish I hadn't). Its probably the best all round car I've ever had, as it does everything well, and excels in certain areas such as handling, looks and practicality. The suspension is great, ignore that crap that Clarkson and others said as its proper nonsense. That being said, the ride really is very harsh on the standard 18" and so must be awful on the 19" rage wheels. I've had track cars with absolutely solid suspension, and my FN2 wasn't far off. I found myself swearing as I hit any sort of pothole, worrying I'd damaged something. But on the other hand, once you get used to it it's fine, and perfectly liveable, something road testers wouldn't have experienced, and the rest of the driving and ownership experience more than makes up for it. Worth noting that some of this harshness can be taken out by fitting relatively cheap Tein or Eibach springs.
I don't know what's happened to the price of these recently, they seem to have shot up by £1500/£2k. Nice 07/08 examples with 90-100k on them were selling for just over £3k and seem to be at about £5k now!
Get an 09 or later model if possible as it has an LSD, although it's not that necessary, and GT spec is the best, but NAV is pointless now really. I paid £2200 for mine at the start of 2020, and whilst it did have high miles as 175k, it was one owner and everything worked perfectly. The owners clubs on Facebook are full of good info and they genuinely seem like a really reliable car.
FN2 is a good all rounder. You have to look out for roof rust with them and clicking sub frames.
£330 tax 25mpg, good interior, ISO Fix rear anchors, biggish boot, folding rear seats gives you about 1500cm of length space.
The ride is harsh as standard though.
I wouldn't pay much more than £4k for a pre 2010 though, no LSD, where as mid 2010 cars come with LSD as standard and that car needs it.
£330 tax 25mpg, good interior, ISO Fix rear anchors, biggish boot, folding rear seats gives you about 1500cm of length space.
The ride is harsh as standard though.
I wouldn't pay much more than £4k for a pre 2010 though, no LSD, where as mid 2010 cars come with LSD as standard and that car needs it.
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