Comfy, not too big, well equipped and reasonably quick -£11k

[clockworks]

Having found the ideal cheap car for my business use (C3 Picasso), I'm considering replacing my Picanto GT-Line S with something else.

The Picanto has only done 5000 miles in 2 years from new, and the WBAC price seems to have stalled now, so if I'm going to sell it, now's the time.

I'm looking for a car that's comfy for longer journeys, relatively quick (sub 8 seconds), auto, not too big for the narrow Cornish lanes, and importantly - good reliability. Max budget is what I get for the Kia - £11k. Happy to spend less.

No VW Group cars (bad experience with a Superb), no Jags, and no sports cars or SUVs.

6 or 8 cylinders preferred. I've never owned a V8.

[samoht]

You could (carefully) consider an AMG C55

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/124912432135?ViewItem=&...

5.4 V8, 5-speed auto, c 1750mm wide so not too bargetastic, nice leather, cruise for longer trips.

Audi S4 is another option that fits the bill I think. I guess an M3 is more focused than you're seeking, perhaps a 330i or 335i worth considering.

[clockworks]

I was actually thinking about a Mercedes of some kind. I've never owned one, know next to nothing about them. I just know that some models are really good, and some are troublesome rust buckets.

I had an E class estate a few years ago as a loan car, and I liked that.

I've owned a few BMWs, and they were pretty reliable. An M car would probably a bit too harsh, and I don't really need that much performance.

[samoht]

IMO there are no bulletproof Mercedes any more. The last ones built regardless of cost are now too old for reliability to be taken for granted. One's left trying to fish out a reasonable balance of build, dynamics and styling from the various eras and models.

The key date in terms of rust was when panels were galvanised - all C55s, being post-facelift W203s, are galvanised ( https://forums.mbclub.co.uk/threads/galvanising-of... ). This improves rust resistance from 'Alfasud' to 'mediocre' levels.

The engine is the classic M113 three-valve 5.4 V8, as used across AMG's range in period. The same basic engine and gearbox with an additional supercharger went into the 493hp 200mph SL55, so in normally-aspirated 362hp form it's fairly robust. Main engine issue is a variety of oil leaks. Gearbox can be jerky when cold, otherwise mostly fine. Crank angle sensor can go and strand you, but not a big fix.

The major rust issue is the rear subframe, which can rot away together with the brake lines that run behind it, a big job to fix. Otherwise check all four arches carefully.

Ventilation flaps can stick causing a noticeable clicking noise on ignition-on, dash-out fix. Lots of toys so check them all. Heated seat bases all break.

I got a C55 wagon last Dec, and like it - thread here https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... with more detail. The previous owner spent a lot of money on mine, which looks like continuing but at least I'm building on a solid foundation.

The issues with buying a C55 is they're an old high performance car that has been fairly cheap for quite a few years, and they're not that robust. So you have to go in with your eyes open, check each car carefully. They're also rare, so should be prepared to travel. On the upside, they're an under-the-radar example of the big engine / small car formula, and a good balance of hustleable on B-roads and comfy on longer trips.

Tbh I suspect a 330 or 335i is probably easier to find a good example and a more sensible option, I just developed a craving for a V8

[ZX10R NIN]

I'd say the CLK55 ticks a lot of boxes, the rear subframes can rust (not all) but with some persuasion Mercedes will replace or go halves on the cost but it's not a given.

I had no subframe issues with the CLK55's (infact the only issue I had was an AC pump failure) I've owned the ventalation flap issue seemed to only affect 2003/04 cars.

Rust in general isn't an issue but the front of the rear quarter panel gets peppered with lots of little stones from the rear tyres, so some bubbling there is an easy £150-200 fix that'll mean you won't have to worry about it for a while.

The only reason I don't have a CLK55 now is because I have a CLK63

This well sorted last of the line CLK55 is a (I still regret selling my last of the line car) great example the only thing I'd really change is to put the 3 slat grille back on but I like the chrome others may not.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202106234...

This looks like a nice C55 but I'd be buying the CLK55 above:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/124912432135?hash=item1...MAAAOSwq8phJBwO

[CharlesdeGaulle]

Have you considered Lexus? An LS is quite large, but a 430 is a brilliant thing, and you'll have lots of cash left over for petrol.

[samoht]

Good point on the CLK, it's all the same basic platform so just depends where OP wants to draw the style/practicality trade-off. Interesting about the ventilation flaps being fine on later cars, it was indeed an 04 that I test drove that had the issue (and a dozen other problems).

CharlesdeGaulle said:

Have you considered Lexus? An LS is quite large, but a 430 is a brilliant thing, and you'll have lots of cash left over for petrol.

The OP's request for reliability does indicate Lexus should be considered, and you do get better value with the larger cars as they tend to be the same price at this age, but higher content levels.

However the LS is not one but two classes bigger than the C-class / 3 series / S4 rivals, and the Cornish lanes haven't really been widened for modern cars, by and large. The ISF is more money, but the GS430 might be an option - rare, but in budget. Still a class bigger but perhaps worth considering if you want Lexus.

[Tyre Tread]

Lexus IS250. Compact, refined, reasonably quick, reliable and comfortable. Even a tin top convertible if you fancy a some wind in your hair.

Oh and for extra peace of mind check out the 10 year warranty offer, even on older cars that have fallen outside Lexus dealer servicing. https://www.lexus.co.uk/owners/warranty/lexus-rela...

[samoht]

IS250 is a good shout.

Could also consider a JDM import Skyline 350GT or 370GT, basically 2+2 or four-door versions of the 350Z and 370Z respectively, V6, majority are autos. Being an import may mean a bit higher insurance but you dodge the £600 annual road tax that a lot of cars mentioned incur.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/203599392971?hash=item2...

£11k is top end, lots around at £5-7k

[clockworks]

Thanks for the suggestions so far.

C55 or CLK55 look like like interesting options. Would I really lose much in the real world by going for a 6 cylinder rather than the V8?

IS250 seems to be the sensible option - legendary reliability. I believe that the earlier autos are CVT? Is it worth spending more for a 2013 onwards one, with a "proper" autobox?

A 6-pot 3 series would be the obvious, if maybe a little boring, choice. A lot more of them around too, although most seem to be diesel.
I had a 2007 5 series estate (E61 LCI 525d) for 3 years - the longest I've ever owned a car, so I must've been happy with it. Bigger than I need now.
How does a later 3 series compare with the E60 for comfort and build quality?

[samoht]

With the C-Class V6s, there was a 215hp C320 until 2005, then a couple of years of 268hp C350 before the W204 replaced it.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202109207...

The C350 looks really rare, but if you find a good one one might be a good option. The 3.2 on paper only just meets your sub-8 second criteria, the 3.5 is a good chunk quicker.

I've not driven them so can't really compare with the V8. I guess the advantages of the V6 are purchase price, fuel economy and probably a lighter nose so better chassis balance. The V8 has the outright performance and is a naturally balanced configuration so revs very smoothly, albeit the V6 has a balancer shaft so may be fine.




On the Lexus, I'm pretty sure the IS250 is always 204hp 2.5 V6 and conventional six-speed torque converter automatic (or rare manual). That runs the duration of the second-gen IS 2005-13, and then the first few years of the third gen until 2015.

I think the CVT is only on the IS300h, which has a four-pot 2.5 plus electric motor and came in with the third-gen.

[clockworks]

Thanks for the info.

The thing that really concerns me with the V8s is selling it again in a few years. Old BMW 5 and 6 series with V8s seem to be almost impossible to sell, while the straight sixes are still worth something. Not sure if the same applies with Mercedes?

[samoht]

clockworks said:

The thing that really concerns me with the V8s is selling it again in a few years. Old BMW 5 and 6 series with V8s seem to be almost impossible to sell, while the straight sixes are still worth something. Not sure if the same applies with Mercedes?

I think the BMW N62 V8 is known to have a few issues that fall into the unfortunate intersection of 'common' and 'expensive', the valve stem seals being one that's talked about a lot.

Conversely the Merc M113 is known to be generally robust, with most common problems being fairly easy fixes.

Certainly googling "bmw N62 problems" seems to bring up more unhappy owners than "mercedes M113 problems" (and some issues are specific to the supercharged K variant so not relevant here).

My impression is that the word has spread to avoid BMW V8s. Additionally BMW inline sixes are well-liked, so for a secondhand BMW buyer looking for something reliable, it's an easy choice to stick with the proven six over the troublesome V8.

Over on the Merc side conversely, the V6s are just cut-down versions of the V8 (the 3.2 is the M112 which is the same, the 3.5 has the later M272 which is an evolution) with the addition of a balancer shaft, so if anything the bigger engine has less to go wrong.

So I think there's an engine-specific reliability situation on the BMW side, which doesn't apply to the Mercs.


All that said, I'm quite aware that it's very hard to anticipate the future value / resaleability of my C55. It's a rare car (perhaps 50 estates in the UK?), and asking prices are all over the place, it doesn't seem a very liquid market. They have zero profile, even most car people have never heard of them, so don't go out looking for one like people do M3s. The only thing I do think is it's old enough to be more or less past normal depreciation. It may depend how people think about these AMGs from just before they went mainstream in the future.

For me it does a lot of things well, comfy/practical/quick/compact, so I plan to hang onto it for another four years or so, at which point I won't be too upset if it's not worth that much. But if you want something to enjoy for a year or two and then sell on to recoup the purchase price, well it's very hard to say either way, you might find a fellow enthusiast willing to pay that, you might struggle and have to let it go for a chunk less.

[clockworks]

Thanks. Good to know that the Mercedes V8 is a decent, reliable, engine. That, and relative rarity, explains why these cars are up for double or treble the price of the closest BMW V8 models.

I alway like to think that I'm buying a car for the long term, but it rarely works out that way.

[ZX10R NIN]

clockworks said:

Thanks. Good to know that the Mercedes V8 is a decent, reliable, engine. That, and relative rarity, explains why these cars are up for double or treble the price of the closest BMW V8 models.

I alway like to think that I'm buying a car for the long term, but it rarely works out that way.

The rarity of the C/CLK55's mean that there prices will be stable, they've been around the 10k mark for the last 3-4 years so that's the price point I'd be looking at.

If you don't mind a V6 then there are two cars I'd look at.

Infiniti G37

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202109097...

E350 Sport Coupe

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202108136...

Both are very good options if a V6 works BUT if you don't mind hunting around there's also the E500 Coupe they're rare but worth seeking out.

Here's an E500 saloon, with it's 5.5 V8 is a peach:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202109127...

[Sslink]

What would the running costs be like on that e500? Asking for a friend...

[Tyre Tread]

clockworks said:

Thanks for the suggestions so far.

C55 or CLK55 look like like interesting options. Would I really lose much in the real world by going for a 6 cylinder rather than the V8?

IS250 seems to be the sensible option - legendary reliability. I believe that the earlier autos are CVT? Is it worth spending more for a 2013 onwards one, with a "proper" autobox?

A 6-pot 3 series would be the obvious, if maybe a little boring, choice. A lot more of them around too, although most seem to be diesel.
I had a 2007 5 series estate (E61 LCI 525d) for 3 years - the longest I've ever owned a car, so I must've been happy with it. Bigger than I need now.
How does a later 3 series compare with the E60 for comfort and build quality?

No, just get the flappy paddle version - Make sure it's an SE-L spec

[ZX10R NIN]

Sslink said:

What would the running costs be like on that e500? Asking for a friend...

Tell your friend they'd be pretty sensible the engine & box are well proven, parts are generic so no AMG tax.

[georgeyboy12345]

Those Mercs listed are probably your best bet, but here are some non-Stuttgart alternatives

Alfa Romeo 156 GTA Go on! You know you want to!
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202106153...


BMW 335i SE
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202109107...


Renault Laguna Coupe 3.5 V6 GT Auto
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202109167...

edit: those last two are probably a bit much on the tax

Edited by georgeyboy12345 on Thursday 23 September 21:59

[86DA]

Mercedes C350 cdi, quick, comfy, 40mpg, we have a Sport and the ride can be a bit choppy, 17" alloys may give a better ride.

Jaguar XF 3.0 Diesel, as above but dpf issues would put me off.