Schoolchildren hold mock trial of Tory MP
Discussion
Done properly, that’s got some merit as teaching information gathering, reasoning, and logic. Also history and economics!
If I was the defence, I’d probably go for the ”we’ve all benefited from the proceeds of slavery” approach . . . ”convict this man and you convict everyone here, black and white alike!”.
And Drax is pretty odious.
If I was the defence, I’d probably go for the ”we’ve all benefited from the proceeds of slavery” approach . . . ”convict this man and you convict everyone here, black and white alike!”.
And Drax is pretty odious.
I was taught, and from an early age, about Pax Britannia, about how we brought peace and civilisation to a world all too hungry for it. Cecil Rhodes was presented as an Indiana Jones type figure, if a bit fatter, to be emulated and praised. Q Victoria, gods bless her, was a modern saint from whom all our blessings came. It was she who opened my eyes to the fact that much of what I was being told was rubbish. I had the cheek to ask what, in particular, had she done for 'us', ie people like me. The lack of answer was revealing.
Given the different influences on me as a kid, the propaganda didn't take, but I always wanted to go to southern Africa to live and work, probably Rhodesia.
I'm not pro destroying statues, although they should have a short life-expectancy in a prominent location. They should make way for more modern heros, those who've done remarkable work without excess baggage, a sort of more solid recognition that sticking their faces of £50 notes. Not for too; there should be room for the next one.
We need honest, as far as possible, histories and slavery funded the Industrial Revolution to a certain extent. I'm not convinced there was much of a cascading effect, given the way those at the bottom of the pile were treated, right up until the end of WWII.
Given the different influences on me as a kid, the propaganda didn't take, but I always wanted to go to southern Africa to live and work, probably Rhodesia.
I'm not pro destroying statues, although they should have a short life-expectancy in a prominent location. They should make way for more modern heros, those who've done remarkable work without excess baggage, a sort of more solid recognition that sticking their faces of £50 notes. Not for too; there should be room for the next one.
We need honest, as far as possible, histories and slavery funded the Industrial Revolution to a certain extent. I'm not convinced there was much of a cascading effect, given the way those at the bottom of the pile were treated, right up until the end of WWII.
As Wyke is a church of England school it is a shame that they did not take their own benefactors to 'court' instead of Drax...I guess that would not align with the schools anti-tory rhetoric. The rank hypocrisy of children from a school run and in part funded by an organisation that was financed by slavery taking someone else to 'court' for the same thing is breath taking.
Derek Smith said:
We need honest, as far as possible, histories and slavery funded the Industrial Revolution to a certain extent. I'm not convinced there was much of a cascading effect, given the way those at the bottom of the pile were treated, right up until the end of WWII.
Good post Derek.Re my snip above, I remember watching a BBC doc years ago covering this. The slave owners who were paid compensation, collected it form a building that no longer stands in London, but the adjacent building still does, this is where investments into the new railway network were being taken and great fortunes were made again from Gov payouts to the already rich.
Gladstone's father received an amount that would equal over £80m today.
Some of it is covered here. https://www.wired.co.uk/article/slavery-database-g...
Derek Smith said:
I was taught, and from an early age, about Pax Britannia, about how we brought peace and civilisation to a world all too hungry for it. Cecil Rhodes was presented as an Indiana Jones type figure, if a bit fatter, to be emulated and praised. Q Victoria, gods bless her, was a modern saint from whom all our blessings came. It was she who opened my eyes to the fact that much of what I was being told was rubbish. I had the cheek to ask what, in particular, had she done for 'us', ie people like me. The lack of answer was revealing.
We need honest, as far as possible, histories and slavery funded the Industrial Revolution to a certain extent. I'm not convinced there was much of a cascading effect, given the way those at the bottom of the pile were treated, right up until the end of WWII.
We do need to be honest Derek about, slavery in particular. A complete history of slavery should be taught. Some would have you believe that the British invented the practice whilst ignoring the Egyptians 5000 years ago, the Roman's conquest of the British Isles or that it was Ottoman empire that began the large scale trade in black slaves from sub Saharan Africa. The Ottomans were active from 1100-1904.They also 'harvested' many millions of white slaves from Eastern Europe and the Black sea region. Teach also that the Barbary pirates, over a period of approx 300 years, enslaved thousands from England, Scotland, Ireland and Wales. The Barbary Corsairs raided as far North as Iceland. We need honest, as far as possible, histories and slavery funded the Industrial Revolution to a certain extent. I'm not convinced there was much of a cascading effect, given the way those at the bottom of the pile were treated, right up until the end of WWII.
The British involvement in the trade was circa ~ 1545-1833. As you say, education should cover the fact that, to a certain extent, the industrial revolution was funded by the proceeds of the slave trade. Education should also teach that during Victoria's reign the UK arguably did more than any nation of the planet has ever done to end the slave trade......... I have many friends who have recently left University or are in their final year. Not one has ever been taught about the West Africa Station, the West Africa Squadron and also the UK's pivotal role in ending the European and North African slave trade. https://wikiy.org/en/West_Africa_Squadron-22484026...
Teach everything, in context, the things that reflect well and the things that show us in a poor light. The current curriculum is one sided and leaves large gaps............ "why weren't we taught about his too" is the most common response I've encountered when I mention the UK's work to end slavery or the fact that Victoria adopted a black daughter.
Crackie said:
Derek Smith said:
I was taught, and from an early age, about Pax Britannia, about how we brought peace and civilisation to a world all too hungry for it. Cecil Rhodes was presented as an Indiana Jones type figure, if a bit fatter, to be emulated and praised. Q Victoria, gods bless her, was a modern saint from whom all our blessings came. It was she who opened my eyes to the fact that much of what I was being told was rubbish. I had the cheek to ask what, in particular, had she done for 'us', ie people like me. The lack of answer was revealing.
We need honest, as far as possible, histories and slavery funded the Industrial Revolution to a certain extent. I'm not convinced there was much of a cascading effect, given the way those at the bottom of the pile were treated, right up until the end of WWII.
We do need to be honest Derek about, slavery in particular. A complete history of slavery should be taught. Some would have you believe that the British invented the practice whilst ignoring the Egyptians 5000 years ago, the Roman's conquest of the British Isles or that it was Ottoman empire that began the large scale trade in black slaves from sub Saharan Africa. The Ottomans were active from 1100-1904.They also 'harvested' many millions of white slaves from Eastern Europe and the Black sea region. Teach also that the Barbary pirates, over a period of approx 300 years, enslaved thousands from England, Scotland, Ireland and Wales. The Barbary Corsairs raided as far North as Iceland. We need honest, as far as possible, histories and slavery funded the Industrial Revolution to a certain extent. I'm not convinced there was much of a cascading effect, given the way those at the bottom of the pile were treated, right up until the end of WWII.
The British involvement in the trade was circa ~ 1545-1833. As you say, education should cover the fact that, to a certain extent, the industrial revolution was funded by the proceeds of the slave trade. Education should also teach that during Victoria's reign the UK arguably did more than any nation of the planet has ever done to end the slave trade......... I have many friends who have recently left University or are in their final year. Not one has ever been taught about the West Africa Station, the West Africa Squadron and also the UK's pivotal role in ending the European and North African slave trade. https://wikiy.org/en/West_Africa_Squadron-22484026...
Teach everything, in context, the things that reflect well and the things that show us in a poor light. The current curriculum is one sided and leaves large gaps............ "why weren't we taught about his too" is the most common response I've encountered when I mention the UK's work to end slavery or the fact that Victoria adopted a black daughter.
Taxation paid for that, so impoverishing those tax payers whilst giving slave owners a nice lump of cash which the government only recently paid off.
The ones that benefited the most were the slave owners not the general population.
I don't think there should be any back slapping on our part for ending something we should never have been involved in the first place. MP's constantly rejected Wilberforce's attempts to abolition it.
Crackie said:
I have many friends who have recently left University or are in their final year. Not one has ever been taught about the West Africa Station, the West Africa Squadron and also the UK's pivotal role in ending the European and North African slave trade.
I'm a good decade out of university now, but at my secondary school we were taught about the Barbary Pirates (given that the bit of coastline we were on was one of their favoured spots for raiding) and how "Rule Britannia, Britannia rule the waves, Britons never will be slaves" was a demand, not a celebration, given that at the time it was written Britain did not rule the waves and its subjects were being pinched by Barbary Pirates in the Mediterranean.In classics we were taught about Greek and Roman slavery, where those slaves came from, how they were enslaved and how they could become free (later we were taught the difference between classical social slavery and American chattel slavery).
We were taught about the Triangular Trade and how the European (not just British) merchants were buying slaves from African rulers and traders, tapping into a long-existing market in slaves that had been a feature of West Africa for centuries. And how European money led to that trade (traditionally something that happened in the aftermath of a war) becoming a destructive social force while local leaders enriched themselves and (unwittingly) opened their lands for colonisation.
We were taught about the abolition movement (including how it had always been around and how there was never a time when slavery was just accepted as the norm by society at large- it was always carried out against significant moral outrage and objectjon...not least of course, by the people who were being enslaved. The modern idea of scientific race was in large part created to justify slavery because it was too damn lucrative to let go). We were taught that Britain was the first nation in history to try and ban slavery and slavetrading on an international level...but only because the moral awkwardness now outweighed the economic gains, and that it was the slave owners, not the slaves who received massive compensation payments.
We were taught about the West African Squadron, the RN captains who carried out their mission with a fierce zeal and the thousands of sailors who died on-station enforcing the ban on the trade. And how Britain used wiping out slavery as a justification for colonial actions throughout much of western and south-central Africa.
If your friends don't know this stuff I can only assume they didn't go to very good schools or didn't pay attention in history or civics class. The idea that this doesn't get taught out of some sort of weird agenda is just wrong.
2xChevrons said:
Crackie said:
I have many friends who have recently left University or are in their final year. Not one has ever been taught about the West Africa Station, the West Africa Squadron and also the UK's pivotal role in ending the European and North African slave trade.
I'm a good decade out of university now, but at my secondary school we were taught about the Barbary Pirates (given that the bit of coastline we were on was one of their favoured spots for raiding) and how "Rule Britannia, Britannia rule the waves, Britons never will be slaves" was a demand, not a celebration, given that at the time it was written Britain did not rule the waves and its subjects were being pinched by Barbary Pirates in the Mediterranean.In classics we were taught about Greek and Roman slavery, where those slaves came from, how they were enslaved and how they could become free (later we were taught the difference between classical social slavery and American chattel slavery).
We were taught about the Triangular Trade and how the European (not just British) merchants were buying slaves from African rulers and traders, tapping into a long-existing market in slaves that had been a feature of West Africa for centuries. And how European money led to that trade (traditionally something that happened in the aftermath of a war) becoming a destructive social force while local leaders enriched themselves and (unwittingly) opened their lands for colonisation.
We were taught about the abolition movement (including how it had always been around and how there was never a time when slavery was just accepted as the norm by society at large- it was always carried out against significant moral outrage and objectjon...not least of course, by the people who were being enslaved. The modern idea of scientific race was in large part created to justify slavery because it was too damn lucrative to let go). We were taught that Britain was the first nation in history to try and ban slavery and slavetrading on an international level...but only because the moral awkwardness now outweighed the economic gains, and that it was the slave owners, not the slaves who received massive compensation payments.
We were taught about the West African Squadron, the RN captains who carried out their mission with a fierce zeal and the thousands of sailors who died on-station enforcing the ban on the trade. And how Britain used wiping out slavery as a justification for colonial actions throughout much of western and south-central Africa.
If your friends don't know this stuff I can only assume they didn't go to very good schools or didn't pay attention in history or civics class. The idea that this doesn't get taught out of some sort of weird agenda is just wrong.
2xChevrons said:
Crackie said:
I have many friends who have recently left University or are in their final year. Not one has ever been taught about the West Africa Station, the West Africa Squadron and also the UK's pivotal role in ending the European and North African slave trade.
I'm a good decade out of university now, but at my secondary school we were taught about the Barbary Pirates (given that the bit of coastline we were on was one of their favoured spots for raiding) and how "Rule Britannia, Britannia rule the waves, Britons never will be slaves" was a demand, not a celebration, given that at the time it was written Britain did not rule the waves and its subjects were being pinched by Barbary Pirates in the Mediterranean.In classics we were taught about Greek and Roman slavery, where those slaves came from, how they were enslaved and how they could become free (later we were taught the difference between classical social slavery and American chattel slavery).
We were taught about the Triangular Trade and how the European (not just British) merchants were buying slaves from African rulers and traders, tapping into a long-existing market in slaves that had been a feature of West Africa for centuries. And how European money led to that trade (traditionally something that happened in the aftermath of a war) becoming a destructive social force while local leaders enriched themselves and (unwittingly) opened their lands for colonisation.
We were taught about the abolition movement (including how it had always been around and how there was never a time when slavery was just accepted as the norm by society at large- it was always carried out against significant moral outrage and objectjon...not least of course, by the people who were being enslaved. The modern idea of scientific race was in large part created to justify slavery because it was too damn lucrative to let go). We were taught that Britain was the first nation in history to try and ban slavery and slavetrading on an international level...but only because the moral awkwardness now outweighed the economic gains, and that it was the slave owners, not the slaves who received massive compensation payments.
We were taught about the West African Squadron, the RN captains who carried out their mission with a fierce zeal and the thousands of sailors who died on-station enforcing the ban on the trade. And how Britain used wiping out slavery as a justification for colonial actions throughout much of western and south-central Africa.
If your friends don't know this stuff I can only assume they didn't go to very good schools or didn't pay attention in history or civics class. The idea that this doesn't get taught out of some sort of weird agenda is just wrong.
Your "idea that this doesn't get taught out of some sort of weird agenda" is complete strawman...........I haven't suggested that. Possibly your assumption that every one of my younger friends, approx 20 of them, were all staring out of the window and daydreaming during the relevant lessons is correct.
Edited by Crackie on Thursday 23 September 18:05
geeks said:
2xChevrons said:
Crackie said:
I have many friends who have recently left University or are in their final year. Not one has ever been taught about the West Africa Station, the West Africa Squadron and also the UK's pivotal role in ending the European and North African slave trade.
I'm a good decade out of university now, but at my secondary school we were taught about the Barbary Pirates (given that the bit of coastline we were on was one of their favoured spots for raiding) and how "Rule Britannia, Britannia rule the waves, Britons never will be slaves" was a demand, not a celebration, given that at the time it was written Britain did not rule the waves and its subjects were being pinched by Barbary Pirates in the Mediterranean.In classics we were taught about Greek and Roman slavery, where those slaves came from, how they were enslaved and how they could become free (later we were taught the difference between classical social slavery and American chattel slavery).
We were taught about the Triangular Trade and how the European (not just British) merchants were buying slaves from African rulers and traders, tapping into a long-existing market in slaves that had been a feature of West Africa for centuries. And how European money led to that trade (traditionally something that happened in the aftermath of a war) becoming a destructive social force while local leaders enriched themselves and (unwittingly) opened their lands for colonisation.
We were taught about the abolition movement (including how it had always been around and how there was never a time when slavery was just accepted as the norm by society at large- it was always carried out against significant moral outrage and objectjon...not least of course, by the people who were being enslaved. The modern idea of scientific race was in large part created to justify slavery because it was too damn lucrative to let go). We were taught that Britain was the first nation in history to try and ban slavery and slavetrading on an international level...but only because the moral awkwardness now outweighed the economic gains, and that it was the slave owners, not the slaves who received massive compensation payments.
We were taught about the West African Squadron, the RN captains who carried out their mission with a fierce zeal and the thousands of sailors who died on-station enforcing the ban on the trade. And how Britain used wiping out slavery as a justification for colonial actions throughout much of western and south-central Africa.
If your friends don't know this stuff I can only assume they didn't go to very good schools or didn't pay attention in history or civics class. The idea that this doesn't get taught out of some sort of weird agenda is just wrong.
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