Drivers must own gridlock problems
Discussion
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-...
A tremendous article from the beeb reporting on Oxford City councils take on recent significant traffic problems in Oxford City and the surrounding areas.
Buses = considerate transport. (apparently)
Also, Oxford City council's road infrastructure is as bad as it is after successive councils do all they can to impede progress around its streets with speed calming measures, one way systems, bus lanes, park and ride, cycle zones, low emissions
zones, blocking off rat runs you name it, Oxford has been at the epicentre of it.
When will these council morons realise that impeding traffic leads to increased pollution. That most people don't want to go by public transport and that once we are all in EV's you're still going to get congestion as the last time I looked an EV took up the same space as a ICE car.
Councillors blaming the road users/car owners and not themselves as that might cost money.
A tremendous article from the beeb reporting on Oxford City councils take on recent significant traffic problems in Oxford City and the surrounding areas.
Buses = considerate transport. (apparently)
Also, Oxford City council's road infrastructure is as bad as it is after successive councils do all they can to impede progress around its streets with speed calming measures, one way systems, bus lanes, park and ride, cycle zones, low emissions
zones, blocking off rat runs you name it, Oxford has been at the epicentre of it.
When will these council morons realise that impeding traffic leads to increased pollution. That most people don't want to go by public transport and that once we are all in EV's you're still going to get congestion as the last time I looked an EV took up the same space as a ICE car.
Councillors blaming the road users/car owners and not themselves as that might cost money.
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-...
A tremendous article from the beeb reporting on Oxford City councils take on recent significant traffic problems in Oxford City and the surrounding areas.
Buses = considerate transport. (apparently)
Also, Oxford City council's road infrastructure is as bad as it is after successive councils do all they can to impede progress around its streets with speed calming measures, one way systems, bus lanes, park and ride, cycle zones, low emissions
zones, blocking off rat runs you name it, Oxford has been at the epicentre of it.
When will these council morons realise that impeding traffic leads to increased pollution. That most people don't want to go by public transport and that once we are all in EV's you're still going to get congestion as the last time I looked an EV took up the same space as a ICE car.
Councillors blaming the road users/car owners and not themselves as that might cost money.
Glad I don't live there then. Public transport does not work over ground. The tube in London bar strikes is very good buses are not. They have to use same space operated by other vehicles. A bus does not go from your door to your office unlike the tube it does not come every 3 mins, it gets stuck behind all other traffic and dedicated lanes cause other traffic to be slower. They are not effective solutionA tremendous article from the beeb reporting on Oxford City councils take on recent significant traffic problems in Oxford City and the surrounding areas.
Buses = considerate transport. (apparently)
Also, Oxford City council's road infrastructure is as bad as it is after successive councils do all they can to impede progress around its streets with speed calming measures, one way systems, bus lanes, park and ride, cycle zones, low emissions
zones, blocking off rat runs you name it, Oxford has been at the epicentre of it.
When will these council morons realise that impeding traffic leads to increased pollution. That most people don't want to go by public transport and that once we are all in EV's you're still going to get congestion as the last time I looked an EV took up the same space as a ICE car.
Councillors blaming the road users/car owners and not themselves as that might cost money.
The simple solution is for people to use their cars less.
It won't happen as people are lazy and entitled, and would bizarrely rather sit in traffic than become part of the solution.
Most people don't need a car, but they make life choices based upon the presumption of car ownership.
This may prove to be an unpopular opinion...
It won't happen as people are lazy and entitled, and would bizarrely rather sit in traffic than become part of the solution.
Most people don't need a car, but they make life choices based upon the presumption of car ownership.
This may prove to be an unpopular opinion...
Radical opinion:
Buses are actually the problem. A wealthier, leaner and more efficient country needs the car. How wasteful is it to have a man driving a huge bus around when it’s mostly empty and needing to run regardless of how empty it is, stopping every couple of hundred metres?
Every car journey has a direct purpose and usually uses the optimal amount of fuel and route.
Once autonomous EV cars can run alongside normal cars we must kill the bus and all associated infrastructure and focus the network on this most efficient method of transport.
Especially as autonomous takes off properly you’ll be able to ‘uber’ your journeys, and the market will introduce multi pickup journeys for those needing cheaper commuting.
Big buses stopping every couple of hundred metres is the old world. Embrace the future.
Buses are actually the problem. A wealthier, leaner and more efficient country needs the car. How wasteful is it to have a man driving a huge bus around when it’s mostly empty and needing to run regardless of how empty it is, stopping every couple of hundred metres?
Every car journey has a direct purpose and usually uses the optimal amount of fuel and route.
Once autonomous EV cars can run alongside normal cars we must kill the bus and all associated infrastructure and focus the network on this most efficient method of transport.
Especially as autonomous takes off properly you’ll be able to ‘uber’ your journeys, and the market will introduce multi pickup journeys for those needing cheaper commuting.
Big buses stopping every couple of hundred metres is the old world. Embrace the future.
Gecko1978 said:
Glad I don't live there then. Public transport does not work over ground. The tube in London bar strikes is very good buses are not. They have to use same space operated by other vehicles. A bus does not go from your door to your office unlike the tube it does not come every 3 mins, it gets stuck behind all other traffic and dedicated lanes cause other traffic to be slower. They are not effective solution
Isn’t the argument from the council spokesman that it’s the cars rather than the buses that are the problem? In other words if buses are getting stuck behind cars, he wants the cars to be the ones that are removed? I’m not saying whether that’s right or wrong, but with a bus taking up the space of about 3 cars but being able to carry up to about 40 people, you can see the point he’s making. Have the councils done their maths and worked out that on balance the city centre area is better off without private cars? At the moment it would appear that less cars will equal less footfall, but maybe once the city centres are car-free the assumption is that footfall will increase as the streets will be safer for pedestrians and cyclists (apart from all the huge buses and mad taxi drivers!). Maybe the sums do add up? Maybe they don’t. Would the councils just be banking on the government to allow large council tax increases if the revenue from things like city centre parking, business rates, and congestion charging dries up with less cars and lower footfall?
There’s also a bit of a disconnect between the government policy of the “road to zero” push to banish all ICE vehicles, with the issue that the OP points out, that cars take up the same space whether they’re fuelled by electric, petrol, diesel or anything else. What’s the point in city centre EV charge points if cars end up largely banned anyway(regardless of fuel type)?
I do wonder what the future holds for cities. On the one hand a whole city centre largely free from motor vehicles would be a much nicer nicer place to be, but looking at the huge number of taxis and Uber cars about, it could easily end up with the number of licensed cabs taking over a large proportion of that vehicle traffic. Maybe the next step will be to insist on EV only taxis, and a limit on the number of cabs with a license to get into the city centre? I don’t know - just thinking “out loud” really!
John145 said:
Radical opinion:
Buses are actually the problem. A wealthier, leaner and more efficient country needs the car. How wasteful is it to have a man driving a huge bus around when it’s mostly empty and needing to run regardless of how empty it is, stopping every couple of hundred metres?
Every car journey has a direct purpose and usually uses the optimal amount of fuel and route.
Once autonomous EV cars can run alongside normal cars we must kill the bus and all associated infrastructure and focus the network on this most efficient method of transport.
Especially as autonomous takes off properly you’ll be able to ‘uber’ your journeys, and the market will introduce multi pickup journeys for those needing cheaper commuting.
Big buses stopping every couple of hundred metres is the old world. Embrace the future.
Newsflash- fully autonomous drive isn’t going to happen.Buses are actually the problem. A wealthier, leaner and more efficient country needs the car. How wasteful is it to have a man driving a huge bus around when it’s mostly empty and needing to run regardless of how empty it is, stopping every couple of hundred metres?
Every car journey has a direct purpose and usually uses the optimal amount of fuel and route.
Once autonomous EV cars can run alongside normal cars we must kill the bus and all associated infrastructure and focus the network on this most efficient method of transport.
Especially as autonomous takes off properly you’ll be able to ‘uber’ your journeys, and the market will introduce multi pickup journeys for those needing cheaper commuting.
Big buses stopping every couple of hundred metres is the old world. Embrace the future.
Bacon Is Proof said:
The simple solution is for people to use their cars less.
It won't happen as people are lazy and entitled, and would bizarrely rather sit in traffic than become part of the solution.
Most people don't need a car, but they make life choices based upon the presumption of car ownership.
This may prove to be an unpopular opinion...
Yes and no...It won't happen as people are lazy and entitled, and would bizarrely rather sit in traffic than become part of the solution.
Most people don't need a car, but they make life choices based upon the presumption of car ownership.
This may prove to be an unpopular opinion...
Our whole way of life revolves around flexible transport... there's no way I could get to work without a car, it's too far to walk/cycle and there are no public transport options. Could I get a job locally...? Maybe, but there's not a huge number of employers nearby.
The bigger issue is "unnecessary" journeys, but that is very subjective. How do you define unnecessary? Since working from home, I have noticed how often our neighbours pop out in the car (I'm not deliberately nosey, but the home office window overlooks the road so it's pretty obvious, especially if the window is open as you can here them getting into the car and driving off). They'll usually be back within 20 minutes. Dropping kids off at school, going shopping, parents visiting, etc etc. Are all these really necessary? Could they walk for some of these, or plan ahead and do everything as part of 1 trip?
Yes, people have busy lives. But that doesn't always add up. How often do you hear about school run mums getting there an hour early for pick up and waiting in the car, simply to grab a parking space? Could that time be used more effectively? Unless a big part of "being too busy" is catching up on Facebook...?
Bacon Is Proof said:
The simple solution is for people to use their cars less.
It won't happen as people are lazy and entitled, and would bizarrely rather sit in traffic than become part of the solution.
Most people don't need a car, but they make life choices based upon the presumption of car ownership.
This may prove to be an unpopular opinion...
The problem isn't he congestion, the problem is that it's difficult for people to get where they need to be. They use cars bacause it's the least bad option. You may as well say that the solution to Tube overcrowding is for people to use the tube less, after all by tht logic they only squeeze onto crowded tubes because they are lazy and entitled. Using the easiest method of transport isn't laziness, it's perfectly reasonable.It won't happen as people are lazy and entitled, and would bizarrely rather sit in traffic than become part of the solution.
Most people don't need a car, but they make life choices based upon the presumption of car ownership.
This may prove to be an unpopular opinion...
Haltamer said:
They're not wrong, really.
If you're sitting in the traffic, you are the traffic.
Oh good stuff If you're sitting in the traffic, you are the traffic.
They all started in the same place at the same time and need to get to the same place at the same time
They are all travelling a distance that they are physically fit to undertake and they are travelling alone and don’t need to carry anything
- simplistic
TeaNoSugar said:
Gecko1978 said:
Glad I don't live there then. Public transport does not work over ground. The tube in London bar strikes is very good buses are not. They have to use same space operated by other vehicles. A bus does not go from your door to your office unlike the tube it does not come every 3 mins, it gets stuck behind all other traffic and dedicated lanes cause other traffic to be slower. They are not effective solution
Isn’t the argument from the council spokesman that it’s the cars rather than the buses that are the problem? In other words if buses are getting stuck behind cars, he wants the cars to be the ones that are removed? I’m not saying whether that’s right or wrong, but with a bus taking up the space of about 3 cars but being able to carry up to about 40 people, you can see the point he’s making. Have the councils done their maths and worked out that on balance the city centre area is better off without private cars? At the moment it would appear that less cars will equal less footfall, but maybe once the city centres are car-free the assumption is that footfall will increase as the streets will be safer for pedestrians and cyclists (apart from all the huge buses and mad taxi drivers!). Maybe the sums do add up? Maybe they don’t. Would the councils just be banking on the government to allow large council tax increases if the revenue from things like city centre parking, business rates, and congestion charging dries up with less cars and lower footfall?
There’s also a bit of a disconnect between the government policy of the “road to zero” push to banish all ICE vehicles, with the issue that the OP points out, that cars take up the same space whether they’re fuelled by electric, petrol, diesel or anything else. What’s the point in city centre EV charge points if cars end up largely banned anyway(regardless of fuel type)?
I do wonder what the future holds for cities. On the one hand a whole city centre largely free from motor vehicles would be a much nicer nicer place to be, but looking at the huge number of taxis and Uber cars about, it could easily end up with the number of licensed cabs taking over a large proportion of that vehicle traffic. Maybe the next step will be to insist on EV only taxis, and a limit on the number of cabs with a license to get into the city centre? I don’t know - just thinking “out loud” really!
Earthdweller said:
They are all travelling a distance that they are physically fit to undertake and they are travelling alone and don’t need to carry anything
Divide the methods of transit to suit practicalities and you'd still be left with far fewer cars. Electrically assisted & Cargo bicycles exist; busses for those who aren't able.Haltamer said:
They're not wrong, really.
If you're sitting in the traffic, you are the traffic.
Comparing a bus full of people vs single occupant cars. No bias there.If you're sitting in the traffic, you are the traffic.
Buses in our area seem to run all day with 2 people on them. The service to our local town (3 miles away) takes about 40 minutes.
They do have a point.
I would never want to give my car up but cars are the problem. If you can get 4 or 5 folk in a car and up to 40 in a bus, surely common sense tells us the bus is the better option for moving large amounts of people.
It's similar to when people who on travelling to the coast, Cornwall or Lake District are struck in a huge traffic jam on a Bank Holiday weekend and then start complaining about all the traffic.
I would never want to give my car up but cars are the problem. If you can get 4 or 5 folk in a car and up to 40 in a bus, surely common sense tells us the bus is the better option for moving large amounts of people.
It's similar to when people who on travelling to the coast, Cornwall or Lake District are struck in a huge traffic jam on a Bank Holiday weekend and then start complaining about all the traffic.
Oxford is probably the worst place to look at this though. The council are just puppets to the university board oldies who hate cars and love buses.
They deliberately make it hard to commute in a car, but so many people need to as all of the people on lower paid jobs can't afford the area. You think a cleaner on £9/hour can afford a £400k studio flat?
It's as if they want a cult town, where only their own can live. Sod everyone else.
Driving to work a few days ago and the bypass is down to 1 lane with NO work happening, it was causing bedham.
They deliberately make it hard to commute in a car, but so many people need to as all of the people on lower paid jobs can't afford the area. You think a cleaner on £9/hour can afford a £400k studio flat?
It's as if they want a cult town, where only their own can live. Sod everyone else.
Driving to work a few days ago and the bypass is down to 1 lane with NO work happening, it was causing bedham.
Given leccy bikes could now easily take a very large proportion of the working population to and from work during a large proportion of the year, give them massive subsidies.
Combine this with cheaper buses and it's win win.
My car is worth about £200 and costs me very little to run, especially spread out over the year, given my commute is 7 miles.
However a decent bike is £1000 upwards, pointless expense and the buses stop at 6pm.
So I sit by myself with many others, pootling along wonderful wide country roads with bikes lanes either side....daft!
Combine this with cheaper buses and it's win win.
My car is worth about £200 and costs me very little to run, especially spread out over the year, given my commute is 7 miles.
However a decent bike is £1000 upwards, pointless expense and the buses stop at 6pm.
So I sit by myself with many others, pootling along wonderful wide country roads with bikes lanes either side....daft!
dundarach said:
Given leccy bikes could now easily take a very large proportion of the working population to and from work during a large proportion of the year, give them massive subsidies.
Combine this with cheaper buses and it's win win.
My car is worth about £200 and costs me very little to run, especially spread out over the year, given my commute is 7 miles.
However a decent bike is £1000 upwards, pointless expense and the buses stop at 6pm.
So I sit by myself with many others, pootling along wonderful wide country roads with bikes lanes either side....daft!
OX1 has the highest bike theft in the country, I've seen multiple bikes stolen in broad daylight a day in Oxford. Your £1000 bike will last minutesCombine this with cheaper buses and it's win win.
My car is worth about £200 and costs me very little to run, especially spread out over the year, given my commute is 7 miles.
However a decent bike is £1000 upwards, pointless expense and the buses stop at 6pm.
So I sit by myself with many others, pootling along wonderful wide country roads with bikes lanes either side....daft!
As always, we are living through changes. Private cars have been toppled from their pinnacle and are unlikely to ever regain it. There’s too much against the private car.
Many prosperous people in London are dumping their own cars for other forms of transport. It makes sense for them. It’s not as if buses are the only option to get from A to B.
Many young people are not bothering to buy cars. They are expensive, they take up space, and they are an affront to their beliefs.
Like it or not, there’s no going back.
Many prosperous people in London are dumping their own cars for other forms of transport. It makes sense for them. It’s not as if buses are the only option to get from A to B.
Many young people are not bothering to buy cars. They are expensive, they take up space, and they are an affront to their beliefs.
Like it or not, there’s no going back.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff