Blimey welding is difficult!
Discussion
To be fair I've never been shown what to do. But I only needed to weld a bracket on my garden tractor. Some time ago I bought a cheap arc welder. It'll do the job I thought, doesn't need to be pretty.
So far I've burnt more holes than welding. Used up an entire welding rod and of the six inches I need to weld, have done about one.
Probably didn't help I'd just been screwing a new outside light to the guttering so my arms and hands were shaking. Well, waving more than shaking! Biggest problem is starting off. I seem to stick the road to the tractor/bracket it almost feels like it's magnetised. Anyway, burnt my thumb and forefinger now, so going to have another go tomorrow.
Any tips?
So far I've burnt more holes than welding. Used up an entire welding rod and of the six inches I need to weld, have done about one.
Probably didn't help I'd just been screwing a new outside light to the guttering so my arms and hands were shaking. Well, waving more than shaking! Biggest problem is starting off. I seem to stick the road to the tractor/bracket it almost feels like it's magnetised. Anyway, burnt my thumb and forefinger now, so going to have another go tomorrow.
Any tips?
I’m no expert fabricator but I do a fair amount of it at work so take my advice with a pinch of salt 
The biggest thing I ever got taught as an apprentice is to make sure everything’s clean - No paint or rust on all of the bits you’re welding and ideally the same for the earth, but agreed this isn’t always possible.
Cheap ARC welders aren’t great but as you say should do the job. Have you got any scrap you can practice on first? Thin metal isn’t easy to weld, rusty thin metal is even harder. I had to repair a cracked back box the other week and it was like trying to weld a tissue… ended up chasing the hole around something chronic and this was with our MIG turned down to the minimum amp setting
I think in hindsight it would have been better TIG welded but I haven’t done enough to be confident with it.
The biggest thing I ever got taught as an apprentice is to make sure everything’s clean - No paint or rust on all of the bits you’re welding and ideally the same for the earth, but agreed this isn’t always possible.
Cheap ARC welders aren’t great but as you say should do the job. Have you got any scrap you can practice on first? Thin metal isn’t easy to weld, rusty thin metal is even harder. I had to repair a cracked back box the other week and it was like trying to weld a tissue… ended up chasing the hole around something chronic and this was with our MIG turned down to the minimum amp setting
I think in hindsight it would have been better TIG welded but I haven’t done enough to be confident with it.Cheap crap welder produces cheap crap welds?
First of all, what rods are you using? A cheap AC welder, you probably want E6103 rods. Any idea of the amps? That would determine the rod size you can use? How thick is the material you are welding?
If you are blowing holes then the material is overheating, this can be caused by too many amps for the rod, not moving the weld pool fast enough, or the arc is too long.
First of all, what rods are you using? A cheap AC welder, you probably want E6103 rods. Any idea of the amps? That would determine the rod size you can use? How thick is the material you are welding?
If you are blowing holes then the material is overheating, this can be caused by too many amps for the rod, not moving the weld pool fast enough, or the arc is too long.
Edited by gazza285 on Saturday 25th September 22:58
I would think the 1.5 and 2.5 are the rod size rather than the metal you are trying to weld.
If you can get a piece of scrap to try on. Try striking the rod like a match. Then moving to where you want to weld once it's going.
Trying to weld thin material with a stick can be a nightmare, never mind the fact you are learning!!
On nice material you should be able to feel the steel you are welding, and you can use the tip of the rod to move the weld pool where you want it.
Move the rod from side to side over the join, and if you are having trouble with the heat making holes just do a little bit at a time. Then leave for the heat to dissipate.
If you can get a piece of scrap to try on. Try striking the rod like a match. Then moving to where you want to weld once it's going.
Trying to weld thin material with a stick can be a nightmare, never mind the fact you are learning!!
On nice material you should be able to feel the steel you are welding, and you can use the tip of the rod to move the weld pool where you want it.
Move the rod from side to side over the join, and if you are having trouble with the heat making holes just do a little bit at a time. Then leave for the heat to dissipate.
Thanks for the advice guys. I know I'm starting at a massive disadvantage using a cheap 240v arc welder. But the thing is, I don't want to be an expert, I'm never going to be confident enough to weld cars and stuff. So buying expensive kit is not for me.
I don't care how ugly it looks, as long as it holds. I'll give it another go later and post up some pics.
I don't care how ugly it looks, as long as it holds. I'll give it another go later and post up some pics.
Here's the welder.
And here's my latest effort
I'm very wary of getting arc eye. I've got a bright spot in my vision already. So I think that will hold, never mind the crack running through the weld, I've gone over that. It's holding. It's actually quite satisfying once you get a run going.
Tyre Smoke said:
I might look into that. Although I can't see me doing a lot of welding.
It was quite short (6 evenings? I forget), not very expensive and extremely useful!Tyre Smoke said:
The welding rods I've got are 6013 whatever that means.
That's a general purpose mild steel electrode, fine for what you're doing.Tyre Smoke said:
I seem to be going through them quite fast.
Yes, you will!I did it!!
I got going and did a six inch line of quite neat (for me) weld. That bracket isn't going anywhere.
Very pleased with myself. Was convinced as I went along the weld, I was not welding the join, but I've amazed myself.
Eta: I can't thank you all enough. Especially the "striking a match" thing. It was the seat bracket and the seat is back on, feeling much more solid than it has done in ages.
I got going and did a six inch line of quite neat (for me) weld. That bracket isn't going anywhere.
Very pleased with myself. Was convinced as I went along the weld, I was not welding the join, but I've amazed myself.
Eta: I can't thank you all enough. Especially the "striking a match" thing. It was the seat bracket and the seat is back on, feeling much more solid than it has done in ages.
Practice on scrap first - clean it up properly and you can get yourself comfortable. Once you know what good looks/feels like, you can apply,it to whatever you want to join together,
IMO stick arc welding is really only suitable for proper agri stuff (digger buckets) and ship building. It is good because you can get huge penetration from not a vast amount of current. If you want to join some bits of half inch plate and you’ve only got a single phase supply, stick is great.
That same feature makes it a bit brutal for anything more fragile….
IMO stick arc welding is really only suitable for proper agri stuff (digger buckets) and ship building. It is good because you can get huge penetration from not a vast amount of current. If you want to join some bits of half inch plate and you’ve only got a single phase supply, stick is great.
That same feature makes it a bit brutal for anything more fragile….
There's lots of "how to" type vids on YouTube. I remember Canuckistan's favourite son, AvE, did quite a few on stick-welding but I don't know if those survived a purge he did a while back.
I do remember he had some sage advice about how you don't meet many old welders... The flux is pretty harsh on those rods; shouldn't be an issue with occasional use but as well as the eye protection (that sounds like it might need upgrading!) you shouldn't be breathing it in either.
I do remember he had some sage advice about how you don't meet many old welders... The flux is pretty harsh on those rods; shouldn't be an issue with occasional use but as well as the eye protection (that sounds like it might need upgrading!) you shouldn't be breathing it in either.
rxe said:
IMO stick arc welding is really only suitable for proper agri stuff (digger buckets) and ship building. It is good because you can get huge penetration from not a vast amount of current. If you want to join some bits of half inch plate and you’ve only got a single phase supply, stick is great.
That same feature makes it a bit brutal for anything more fragile….
Careful, your ignorance is showing, arc welding is a bit more refined that you seem to think it is.That same feature makes it a bit brutal for anything more fragile….
gazza285 said:
Careful, your ignorance is showing, arc welding is a bit more refined that you seem to think it is.
Um, would you (or anyone else?) choose stick as a good option for car bodies and other lightweight things like mowers?Most people would be using MIG for repairs and TIG for fabrication that needs to look nice.
rxe said:
gazza285 said:
Careful, your ignorance is showing, arc welding is a bit more refined that you seem to think it is.
Um, would you (or anyone else?) choose stick as a good option for car bodies and other lightweight things like mowers?Most people would be using MIG for repairs and TIG for fabrication that needs to look nice.
Of course arc welding could be made more delicate for certain applications, but the requirement just isn't there as MIG/TIG/brazing are more suited to it.
Arc is a fantastic tool for rough environments where you don't want to carry shielding gas etc, or haven't got a great power supply, but none I've come across are a delicate tool for thin steel.
That said, I think arc is great fun, and definitely my favourite method.
Zumbruk said:
I did an evening class at my local college; "Basic AC arc and gas welding". It's stood me in very good stead over the years.
Me too, it was filthy cheap considering how much material we used etc. Very educational as we started with a gas torch and worked our way up through everything, and plasma cutter too.Gassing Station | Home Mechanics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff