Historic's Ascot
Discussion
phib said:
We were there, usual situation of some good results for good cars and some poor results for poor cars.
Was quite quet there compared to the same time a couple of years ago.
Havent looked through full results but there was a fair bit of wheeling and dealing post auction.
Phib
If it's like what I do, most people now bid online. In fact, Brightwells and ACA for example have continued to do online / commission / phone bidding only. It suits them not to have all the proles in there. They can do it with less staff and lower overheads; the refreshments facilities are usually 3rd parties.Was quite quet there compared to the same time a couple of years ago.
Havent looked through full results but there was a fair bit of wheeling and dealing post auction.
Phib
I used to attend many classic car auctions pre-pandemic; Historics, CCA, ACA, Brightwells, H+H, SWVA, and they were unfortunately mostly populated by 'tourists.' By that, I mean people who just go for the day out, sit writing the sale prices in their expensive catalogue (when they're all online shortly afterwards anyway), taking up chairs wolfing down massively overpriced food and never intend putting their hand up.
A whopping deposit online to show intent & get a bidding number deters the timewasters and you don't have to stand close to smelly, and likely infected people.
Some auction houses farm it out to Proxibid, thesaleroom etc but some have their own platform. I still go to a viewing day if I'm interested, buying blind is NOT advised...There is often an extra 1% premium to bid online but at the price point I bid at, that's normally under £50. Brightwells don't charge any extra but then it's already 12%.... I refuse to use Silverstone, it's 15% (but hey, that includes VAT), Jesus!
sixor8 said:
If it's like what I do, most people now bid online. In fact, Brightwells and ACA for example have continued to do online / commission / phone bidding only. It suits them not to have all the proles in there. They can do it with less staff and lower overheads; the refreshments facilities are usually 3rd parties.
I used to attend many classic car auctions pre-pandemic; Historics, CCA, ACA, Brightwells, H+H, SWVA, and they were unfortunately mostly populated by 'tourists.' By that, I mean people who just go for the day out, sit writing the sale prices in their expensive catalogue (when they're all online shortly afterwards anyway), taking up chairs wolfing down massively overpriced food and never intend putting their hand up.
A whopping deposit online to show intent & get a bidding number deters the timewasters and you don't have to stand close to smelly, and likely infected people. Some auction houses farm it out to Proxibid, thesaleroom etc but some have their own platform. I still go to a viewing day if I'm interested, buying blind is NOT advised...
There is often an extra 1% premium to bid online but at the price point I bid at, that's normally under £50. Brightwells don't charge any extra but then it's already 12%.... I refuse to use Silverstone, it's 15% (but hey, that includes VAT), Jesus!
I have to agree with all your comments, we only went as my neighbour was selling something in the auction and Ascot is 10 mins from us ... I used to attend many classic car auctions pre-pandemic; Historics, CCA, ACA, Brightwells, H+H, SWVA, and they were unfortunately mostly populated by 'tourists.' By that, I mean people who just go for the day out, sit writing the sale prices in their expensive catalogue (when they're all online shortly afterwards anyway), taking up chairs wolfing down massively overpriced food and never intend putting their hand up.
A whopping deposit online to show intent & get a bidding number deters the timewasters and you don't have to stand close to smelly, and likely infected people.
Some auction houses farm it out to Proxibid, thesaleroom etc but some have their own platform. I still go to a viewing day if I'm interested, buying blind is NOT advised...There is often an extra 1% premium to bid online but at the price point I bid at, that's normally under £50. Brightwells don't charge any extra but then it's already 12%.... I refuse to use Silverstone, it's 15% (but hey, that includes VAT), Jesus!
Having said that I still like the buzz of an auction but agree its much easier to bid at home.
I nearly once bought blind and ran down to the auction just before the sale .... where most of the underside was rotten.
Phib
The whole on-line classic car auction industry that has to come under some form of regulation soon. It is so bad.
Buying old cars on-line, un-inspected is at best Russian Roulette, at worse, a complete mugs game.
"This description has come from the vendor. The auction house bears no responsibility for any errors or omissions after sale" or words to that effect.
In other words, its all a pack of lies. May of the cars come from the trade trying to off-load dogs.
At least BCA make some effort to describe the cars accurately. The small classic auction houses haven't a clue and dont give a dam.
I have has successes over the years, however I have had a Bentley S1 with a new MOT and NO exhaust and NO brakes (Esher), a solid Mercedes SEB constructed from biscuit tins (same location). I have seen worse too.
You have to be especially careful buying a car entered by the trade that does not meet its reserve and sold after. In other words it does not sell under the hammer. You then have even less rights.
This is one reason why some cars have unrealistic reserves. The auction house is completely off the hook if the car is then sold after the sale and turns out to be a crock. Even though they have earned their full commission.
You have to look, you cannot believe anything they print. They only tell you about the good stuff.
Caveat Emptor.
Buying old cars on-line, un-inspected is at best Russian Roulette, at worse, a complete mugs game.
"This description has come from the vendor. The auction house bears no responsibility for any errors or omissions after sale" or words to that effect.
In other words, its all a pack of lies. May of the cars come from the trade trying to off-load dogs.
At least BCA make some effort to describe the cars accurately. The small classic auction houses haven't a clue and dont give a dam.
I have has successes over the years, however I have had a Bentley S1 with a new MOT and NO exhaust and NO brakes (Esher), a solid Mercedes SEB constructed from biscuit tins (same location). I have seen worse too.
You have to be especially careful buying a car entered by the trade that does not meet its reserve and sold after. In other words it does not sell under the hammer. You then have even less rights.
This is one reason why some cars have unrealistic reserves. The auction house is completely off the hook if the car is then sold after the sale and turns out to be a crock. Even though they have earned their full commission.
You have to look, you cannot believe anything they print. They only tell you about the good stuff.
Caveat Emptor.
politeperson said:
The whole on-line classic car auction industry that has to come under some form of regulation soon. It is so bad.
Buying old cars on-line, un-inspected is at best Russian Roulette, at worse, a complete mugs game.
"This description has come from the vendor. The auction house bears no responsibility for any errors or omissions after sale" or words to that effect.
In other words, its all a pack of lies. May of the cars come from the trade trying to off-load dogs.
At least BCA make some effort to describe the cars accurately. The small classic auction houses haven't a clue and dont give a dam.
I have has successes over the years, however I have had a Bentley S1 with a new MOT and NO exhaust and NO brakes (Esher), a solid Mercedes SEB constructed from biscuit tins (same location). I have seen worse too.
You have to be especially careful buying a car entered by the trade that does not meet its reserve and sold after. In other words it does not sell under the hammer. You then have even less rights.
This is one reason why some cars have unrealistic reserves. The auction house is completely off the hook if the car is then sold after the sale and turns out to be a crock. Even though they have earned their full commission.
You have to look, you cannot believe anything they print. They only tell you about the good stuff.
Caveat Emptor.
There are three rules for buying anything at auction.Buying old cars on-line, un-inspected is at best Russian Roulette, at worse, a complete mugs game.
"This description has come from the vendor. The auction house bears no responsibility for any errors or omissions after sale" or words to that effect.
In other words, its all a pack of lies. May of the cars come from the trade trying to off-load dogs.
At least BCA make some effort to describe the cars accurately. The small classic auction houses haven't a clue and dont give a dam.
I have has successes over the years, however I have had a Bentley S1 with a new MOT and NO exhaust and NO brakes (Esher), a solid Mercedes SEB constructed from biscuit tins (same location). I have seen worse too.
You have to be especially careful buying a car entered by the trade that does not meet its reserve and sold after. In other words it does not sell under the hammer. You then have even less rights.
This is one reason why some cars have unrealistic reserves. The auction house is completely off the hook if the car is then sold after the sale and turns out to be a crock. Even though they have earned their full commission.
You have to look, you cannot believe anything they print. They only tell you about the good stuff.
Caveat Emptor.
1. View the lot.
2. Do not believe a word written in the catalogue.
3. Make your own assessment.
politeperson said:
The whole on-line classic car auction industry that has to come under some form of regulation soon. It is so bad.
Buying old cars on-line, un-inspected is at best Russian Roulette, at worse, a complete mugs game.
In person it's bad enough. A friend bought an E21 from Brightwells a couple of years ago, the car broke down on the ring road less than 1/2 a mile from the auction house, and when recovered to said friend's local garage, the car threw up 2 x A4 pages of MOT failiures, despite being sold with a fresh/clean MOT sheet at auction? Fortunately the auction house saw sense and aided in getting the sale nullified/rejected.Buying old cars on-line, un-inspected is at best Russian Roulette, at worse, a complete mugs game.
Granted you'll always get people trying to pass off substandard vehicles through 'the ring', but to sell something that was quite frankly dangerous and masked by a fake MOT was shocking; haven't been back to an auction since, although did notice from one of their later catalogues that the same scam artist had re-entered the exact same car - hope someone who was bidding online didn't fall for the tidy bodywork and have their pants pulled down..
politeperson said:
The whole on-line classic car auction industry that has to come under some form of regulation soon. It is so bad.
Buying old cars on-line, un-inspected is at best Russian Roulette, at worse, a complete mugs game.
"This description has come from the vendor. The auction house bears no responsibility for any errors or omissions after sale" or words to that effect.
In other words, its all a pack of lies. May of the cars come from the trade trying to off-load dogs.
At least BCA make some effort to describe the cars accurately. The small classic auction houses haven't a clue and dont give a dam.
I have has successes over the years, however I have had a Bentley S1 with a new MOT and NO exhaust and NO brakes (Esher), a solid Mercedes SEB constructed from biscuit tins (same location). I have seen worse too.
You have to be especially careful buying a car entered by the trade that does not meet its reserve and sold after. In other words it does not sell under the hammer. You then have even less rights.
This is one reason why some cars have unrealistic reserves. The auction house is completely off the hook if the car is then sold after the sale and turns out to be a crock. Even though they have earned their full commission.
You have to look, you cannot believe anything they print. They only tell you about the good stuff.
Caveat Emptor.
Agree with this apart from the BCA bit, most of the traders I know are having a nightmare with BCA and actually getting their money back at the moment !Buying old cars on-line, un-inspected is at best Russian Roulette, at worse, a complete mugs game.
"This description has come from the vendor. The auction house bears no responsibility for any errors or omissions after sale" or words to that effect.
In other words, its all a pack of lies. May of the cars come from the trade trying to off-load dogs.
At least BCA make some effort to describe the cars accurately. The small classic auction houses haven't a clue and dont give a dam.
I have has successes over the years, however I have had a Bentley S1 with a new MOT and NO exhaust and NO brakes (Esher), a solid Mercedes SEB constructed from biscuit tins (same location). I have seen worse too.
You have to be especially careful buying a car entered by the trade that does not meet its reserve and sold after. In other words it does not sell under the hammer. You then have even less rights.
This is one reason why some cars have unrealistic reserves. The auction house is completely off the hook if the car is then sold after the sale and turns out to be a crock. Even though they have earned their full commission.
You have to look, you cannot believe anything they print. They only tell you about the good stuff.
Caveat Emptor.
On a slightly lighter note .... and this has never happened to me before and will probably never happen to me again !!!
I bought a Landrover S1 V8 from a very well know auction house.
The write up was very very basic for some very odd reason and it was a no reserve. We tested it and it started on the button.
I got it at a price I was happy with, and spoke to the previous owner had done : full engine rebuild, new water pump, brakes (needed adjustment) gearbox rebuild, axle rebuild etc ete
No idea why they didnt put anything of this in the advert !!
Phib
phib said:
Agree with this apart from the BCA bit, most of the traders I know are having a nightmare with BCA and actually getting their money back at the moment !
On a slightly lighter note .... and this has never happened to me before and will probably never happen to me again !!!
I bought a Landrover S1 V8 from a very well know auction house.
The write up was very very basic for some very odd reason and it was a no reserve. We tested it and it started on the button.
I got it at a price I was happy with, and spoke to the previous owner had done : full engine rebuild, new water pump, brakes (needed adjustment) gearbox rebuild, axle rebuild etc ete
No idea why they didnt put anything of this in the advert !!
Phib
Kind of a similar situation: I impulsively bought a BMW 323i when you could still get them for 3-figure sums. It was sold at auction "as seen" and with no history or V5. On a slightly lighter note .... and this has never happened to me before and will probably never happen to me again !!!
I bought a Landrover S1 V8 from a very well know auction house.
The write up was very very basic for some very odd reason and it was a no reserve. We tested it and it started on the button.
I got it at a price I was happy with, and spoke to the previous owner had done : full engine rebuild, new water pump, brakes (needed adjustment) gearbox rebuild, axle rebuild etc ete
No idea why they didnt put anything of this in the advert !!
Phib
When I got it home I freed the stuck boot lid to discover a V5 stating no previous owners, a fully stamped (main dealer) history and a new exhaust.
It turned out to be a company disposal. The MD had owned it from new but they had written so much value out of it they couldn't be bothered to market the thing. £325 and it was mine! Ran it for a year and moved it on for a modest profit
phib said:
Agree with this apart from the BCA bit, most of the traders I know are having a nightmare with BCA and actually getting their money back at the moment !
I'd have to agree with that! My retired motor trader mate still has a BCA account as he loves a deal, but has lately found cars adertised privately cheaper than what BCA cars sell for.
And BCA only pass on any Service History to the buyer, although knowing someone who works there helps!
I was very interested to read this thread, and with some of these points in mind, I watched a recent auction on-line. I had been interested in a car in the auction which had a slightly curious background - imported over 25 years ago, taxed for a year, stored ever since, auctioned at Coy's in 2018 but presumably didn't sell as it was advertised in the recent auction as being in the same long term ownership.
The company holding the auction was quite a small but well-established country-based house. I hadn't known them holding a classic car auction before, but I was told that some ex-Coys people were involved. Some of the fare was exotic and interesting. However, a pattern began to develop. Prices would rise to just below the lowest estimate price and stop. It seemed phantom buyers - present? on-line? telephone? - were pushing up the price in the hope that a genuine punter would push it over the line. In 12 out of 32 cases the cars sold. Only once, when I was watching, was a bidder - still just under the estimate - told to 'contact me afterwards' suggesting that such advice was not appropriate for the other bidders because they were part of the organisation!
This experience, plus the lines above and the fact that I still didn't get an honest and comprehensive answer to a query about the car I was interested in, don't make me feel confident about the auction industry. And I don't suppose the the original auction house is feeling too happy either.
The company holding the auction was quite a small but well-established country-based house. I hadn't known them holding a classic car auction before, but I was told that some ex-Coys people were involved. Some of the fare was exotic and interesting. However, a pattern began to develop. Prices would rise to just below the lowest estimate price and stop. It seemed phantom buyers - present? on-line? telephone? - were pushing up the price in the hope that a genuine punter would push it over the line. In 12 out of 32 cases the cars sold. Only once, when I was watching, was a bidder - still just under the estimate - told to 'contact me afterwards' suggesting that such advice was not appropriate for the other bidders because they were part of the organisation!
This experience, plus the lines above and the fact that I still didn't get an honest and comprehensive answer to a query about the car I was interested in, don't make me feel confident about the auction industry. And I don't suppose the the original auction house is feeling too happy either.
It’s my understanding that it is common place for auction houses to make shill bids or in their parlance “bid off the wall”. It is apparently not illegal (if that’s the correct term) or frowned on if an item has a firm reserve for the house to artificially bid an item to just below the reserve. The theory being that the eventual buyer who chooses to bid above the reserve was comfortable paying what they felt was a fair price. My issue with this as a serial underbidder (set my price and stick to it) is that when I have won I have felt some comfort knowing there was someone willing to pay just below what I thought was fair. I now know that if this is won at lower reserve the underbidder may be the house.
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