Lack of Staff

[TurnersTest]

Hi everyone,

I own a mot and service station in South East London and wondered if anyone else is finding it really hard to obtain decent staff at the moment? Everyone is either an apprentice, which we already have, or people who want out of the industry.

Anyone else here finding the same issue and does anyone know any reason why this might be? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Turners

[The test driver]

TurnersTest said:

Hi everyone,

I own a mot and service station in South East London and wondered if anyone else is finding it really hard to obtain decent staff at the moment? Everyone is either an apprentice, which we already have, or people who want out of the industry.

Anyone else here finding the same issue and does anyone know any reason why this might be? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Turners

So as an Ex-mechanic that got out of the game, what sets you out as a place that people will want to work for?

Staff that are good at what they do and want to stay in the field are generally well looked after in an attempt to not lose them to competitors, you need something that's sets your business apart from the rest as a place that's attractive to work at.

There's also a lack of staff in the industry currently, mainly due to the fact that generally its dirty, cold, under paid and under-trained/skilled plus the fact there's the incoming big shift to EV. That's not to say your business is under those observations but from experience the industry struggles with this image. Weekly I get spammed by recruiters looking for mechanics/techs but very, very rarely is the wage offered anywhere near the point I'd consider rolling the toolbox out again.

[Blackpuddin]

Employers like to tell us that increasing wages won't help to attract staff and that's probably true but only because there is such a disparity between the 'National Living Wage' and what people actually need to survive. Mrs B has been looking round for work at horse stables where she would be a good asset for any employer. She was told by one clearly very successful outfit 'we pay minimum wage' (which actually they didn't, it was £8.50 an hour which is 41p an hour below the NLW) for 8am to 5pm three days a week. Their younger staff had left for some reason (hmm) and they were looking for someone older and more responsible but they weren't prepared to up the pay. Given that it's 17 miles drive away I've ventured the opinion that she should tell them to do one.

[Richard-390a0]

I was chatting to a former colleague at a premium brand retailer recently, they've just had their first pay rise since 2018 of 1% & you wonder why you can't get any staff. Nobody wants to work in the trade anymore & from the recruitment posts I see on fb etc you would earn more money as a labourer on a building site.

[shtu]

Blackpuddin said:

Mrs B has been looking round for work at horse stables... I've ventured the opinion that she should tell them to do one.

I would.

eg, https://www.tesco-careers.com/jobdetails/664256/

£9.55 an hour plus a host of benefits, not least of them being you don't have to shovel st all day.

[audikentman]

Garage mechanics are massively under paid.
I left school 40 years ago, wifh minimal qualifications, did a 4 year C&G apprenticeship, spent literally 1,000's on tools, constantly changing employers for a few quid more, no pension.
Left the garage industry, went to work for the AA, own van, tools supplied, commission, pension.
Left that became a traindriver, paid while i was training, no tools to buy, free travel/cheap travel, pension. Stay clean. Probably earning what a garage mechanic earns.
Sorry to tell you but there are better paid, and better jobs than getting dirty and paying £1,000's from your own money for tools to do a job to earn the boss his money.

Edited by audikentman on Saturday 2nd October 14:51

[JDR33]

I've recently joined the family run business after 7 years being on the road. I'm currently training as a compressed air engineer as I worked with cars on and off most of my life. We're an engineer short due to 1 other guy who worked for us, said his uncle had died and just buggered off to blackpool to join the rest of his family without a months notice.

We're really struggling as i'm shadowing my boss (father-in-law) until january, when I can go out on my own. Just can't get no engineers, a lot of our rivals need staff and they just can't get anyone in. Same as our office, my other half bless her, is on her own trying to get out service quotes, cover warranties, costings, invoices etc etc she's having a breakdown because she's got no support.

ATM my boss want's to try and sub contract this guy so we can work together for better training as i'm lacking of. I know how to service machines, change separators, line filters, auto drains, owamats, re-certificate air receivers and do basic pipework but I lack on problem solving.

[Terminator X]

Sounds like brexit / Boris / Maggie Thatcher [delete as appropriate]

TX.

[Countdown]

Previously a big chunk of our applicants were from Europe. That has just disappeared. IMHO there aren't enough staff to fill the number of vacancies. I'm not sure if just increasing salaries is the answer - all that results in is the same pool of staff moving around.

[aparna]

Countdown said:

Previously a big chunk of our applicants were from Europe. That has just disappeared. IMHO there aren't enough staff to fill the number of vacancies. I'm not sure if just increasing salaries is the answer - all that results in is the same pool of staff moving around.

How else are you supposed to stop the limited staff moving around to your competitors?

We already raised wages once, but more recently, we decided against that, and instead improve loyalty and retention bonusses, and improve overtime and volume bonuses.

[MG CHRIS]

aparna said:

Countdown said:

Previously a big chunk of our applicants were from Europe. That has just disappeared. IMHO there aren't enough staff to fill the number of vacancies. I'm not sure if just increasing salaries is the answer - all that results in is the same pool of staff moving around.

How else are you supposed to stop the limited staff moving around to your competitors?

We already raised wages once, but more recently, we decided against that, and instead improve loyalty and retention bonusses, and improve overtime and volume bonuses.

As a tech in a dealer one of my biggest issues is bonuses they never work cause far to many issues and generally piss people off. If it's group you will have the slackers being well slackers while the workers pick up the slack or individual were certain techs will gap the system and fk everyone else over.
It's a dirty crap industry with st pay for the amount of tools we have to have and the level of advancmemt in the cars. Bonuses won't make a blind bit of difference.

[MG CHRIS]

The motor trade really needs to up it's game it's lost way to many good hard worker techs over the years and has arrogantly assumed they can keep the new techs coming whilst having st pay.
There is very few new people entering and tbh I would advise anyone thinking too join to avoid it. I've been in the trade 12 years now 29 and I despise working in it ATM.
On the mot side you have annual assesments that have nothing to do with actually testing, you also have dvsa just waiting to fk you over for the tiniest error. And the servicing side time being cut on jobs so they can squeeze more jobs in but also expect you to hit 100% or higher with cars that are getting harder and more complicated to work on.
You constantly updated you tool collection to make money for the boss. You have to battle middle management that don't have a clue about cars and just sees a spreadsheet.
There is zero ways of climbing the ladder unless you are either useless so you get put into management or fit into the clique that forms.
The drive for quick work not quality work and don't even get me started on bonuses oh and for all that on £11-12 per hour. If you honestly can't think after reading this why the industry is struggling you need help.

Oh and one last thing zero appreciation and the moment you misdiagnose something or break something you are enemy number one.

[The test driver]

MG CHRIS said:

The motor trade really needs to up it's game it's lost way to many good hard worker techs over the years and has arrogantly assumed they can keep the new techs coming whilst having st pay.
There is very few new people entering and tbh I would advise anyone thinking too join to avoid it. I've been in the trade 12 years now 29 and I despise working in it ATM.
On the mot side you have annual assesments that have nothing to do with actually testing, you also have dvsa just waiting to fk you over for the tiniest error. And the servicing side time being cut on jobs so they can squeeze more jobs in but also expect you to hit 100% or higher with cars that are getting harder and more complicated to work on.
You constantly updated you tool collection to make money for the boss. You have to battle middle management that don't have a clue about cars and just sees a spreadsheet.
There is zero ways of climbing the ladder unless you are either useless so you get put into management or fit into the clique that forms.
The drive for quick work not quality work and don't even get me started on bonuses oh and for all that on £11-12 per hour. If you honestly can't think after reading this why the industry is struggling you need help.

Oh and one last thing zero appreciation and the moment you misdiagnose something or break something you are enemy number one.

I supported your lamentations completely!

It's when recruiters send you jobs where the wage is 24k basic, 30k OTE, you know you're going to get raped to hit that 30K and that's if it's actually achievable.
My memory of chain dealerships was effectively the customer was the enemy that needed to be squeezed for every penny so V***** bro's could buy a new Lambo each.

[StevieBee]

Blackpuddin said:

Employers like to tell us that increasing wages won't help to attract staff and that's probably true but only because there is such a disparity between the 'National Living Wage' and what people actually need to survive. Mrs B has been looking round for work at horse stables where she would be a good asset for any employer. She was told by one clearly very successful outfit 'we pay minimum wage' (which actually they didn't, it was £8.50 an hour which is 41p an hour below the NLW) for 8am to 5pm three days a week. Their younger staff had left for some reason (hmm) and they were looking for someone older and more responsible but they weren't prepared to up the pay. Given that it's 17 miles drive away I've ventured the opinion that she should tell them to do one.

For balance, let me give you the employers side of things.

Let's say that they increase the £8.50 an hour by £2.00 to £10.50 per hour.

8am to 5pm gives a 9 hour day so that's an additional £18 per day - £90 per week - £4,680 per year.

On top of this, the employer has to pay National Insurance employer contributions and carry other costs. On this figure that would work out roughly to around £700 a year so the total cost to the employer for that £2 per hour hike is £5,380 a year.

So if, for arguments sake, there's a staff of say five people all on £8.50 and this goes up to £10.50, the total cost to the company is £26,900 a year.

Now if they're making £100k net profit each year then fair enough. But business owners tend to get their money in the form of dividends - paid from the profits their company makes. So if the company is only making say £50k net profit, the business owner could end up earning less than their employees despite them carrying all the financial risks associated with business ownership. In this instance, they'd be better off selling up, investing what they get for the business and going to work at Tescos.

Obviously there are infinite permutations on this and I'm only talking about small, independent business but it demonstrates that simply adding a few quid to an hourly wage is not always easy or indeed possible.

There is a disparity between the NLW and what people actually need. But what you will find is that the issue is driven not by the greed of business owners but by what people pay for the things those companies buy.

Most companies would love to increase their prices to pay their staff more. But this runs the risk that the business becomes non-viable as society has gotten to the point were the lowest price wins and stuff the value.

[Countdown]

I'm confused.

If the Owner is earning £50k and the Employees are earning £26k how is he earning less than them?

[Richard-390a0]

StevieBee said:

There is a disparity between the NLW and what people actually need. But what you will find is that the issue is driven not by the greed of business owners but by what people pay for the things those companies buy.

Most companies would love to increase their prices to pay their staff more. But this runs the risk that the business becomes non-viable as society has gotten to the point were the lowest price wins and stuff the value.

ROFL retailers charging £150 - £200 per hr & the techie is seeing £12 - £14 per hr of that & you say it's not driven by the greed of the business owners rofl again!!

[anonymous-user]

Richard-390a0 said:

ROFL retailers charging £150 - £200 per hr & the techie is seeing £12 - £14 per hr of that & you say it's not driven by the greed of the business owners rofl again!!

When you have owned and operated a company/business employing multiple people, you can come back and tell us where the problems are.

As StevieBee points out, the cost to a company of employees is far more than what the employee thinks it is. Then you have all the other costs associated with running a business, which at times seem almost endless.

I'm not saying some businesses don't make a good profit, but for many small to medium sized businesses, such as an independent garage that the OP is talking about, you would probably be surprised at how close the earnings of the owner and the employees are.

There is a calculator here, where you can add various items and see the 'true cost' of an employee:

https://www.accountingservicesforbusiness.co.uk/ca...

[cowboyengineer]

Countdown said:

I'm confused.

If the Owner is earning £50k and the Employees are earning £26k how is he earning less than them?

It’s not that hard, business makes 50k profit, gives £2 pay rise to worker. Business earns 24k a year profit then. Hence why he would end up earning less than his workers

[StevieBee]

Richard-390a0 said:

StevieBee said:

There is a disparity between the NLW and what people actually need. But what you will find is that the issue is driven not by the greed of business owners but by what people pay for the things those companies buy.

Most companies would love to increase their prices to pay their staff more. But this runs the risk that the business becomes non-viable as society has gotten to the point were the lowest price wins and stuff the value.

ROFL retailers charging £150 - £200 per hr & the techie is seeing £12 - £14 per hr of that & you say it's not driven by the greed of the business owners rofl again!!

The business charges work to the customer at £200 per hour.

How many technicians would be working on that job in that hour?
What is the overhead - rent, rates, utilities? - distilled down to a per-hour number?
How many support staff exist (secretaries, admin, etc) and how much do they cost?
How much does the equipment cost - to buy or lease?
How much is spent on consumables that can’t be charged on directly?
How much does it cost to get customers through the door - advertising, marketing, etc?
How much of his own money did the owner put in to start the business up - or how much risk is he exposed to?
On top of all this are the additional employee costs such as national insurance, normal insurance costs, providing you tea and coffee......

Add all of that up and you will be surprised at just how much it comes to.

And don’t forget that you have a job - a job created by someone who invested their own money and/or put their house on the line, devoted years of hard work for no pay having no holidays working seven days a week to get to a point where they could afford to give you a job. Even if they are taking £100 out of that £200 an hour (which I can guarantee you they won’t be) you’ll find that on balance it’s entirely justified.

And if you disagree or don’t like that, then there is nothing stopping you putting your own house on the line, investing your own money and devoting all of your life to setting up your own business when you can then hire techies at £20 per hour or even £30. At which point, as you sit in your bankruptcy hearing after having handed the keys of your house to the bank, you will painfully realise why those rates are unsustainable.

cowboyengineer said:

Countdown said:

I'm confused.

If the Owner is earning £50k and the Employees are earning £26k how is he earning less than them?

It’s not that hard, business makes 50k profit, gives £2 pay rise to worker. Business earns 24k a year profit then. Hence why he would end up earning less than his workers

Sort of.

Profit is different to salary.

Most small business owners pay themselves a salary below the level that would require them to pay income tax but top this up with dividends that carry a lower tax level (7.5%). This is fair because the company (which the person owns) has already paid its corporation tax and other tax liabilities so it’s a good way to incentivise growth and enterprise.

The downside is that dividends can only be paid if the company has made a profit.

So on the example I gave, if the owner of that business had paid himself £10k a year salary and the company made a £50k profit, he may well pay himself a £30k dividend, leaving £20k in the business.

However, if as a result of the £2 an hour increase, the company’s profit reduces to £23k and remembering that you do need to leave some profit in the business, the most he could pay himself in dividends would be around £10k.

So in this example, the business owner would earn £20k whilst his staff would earn £22k.

This is surprisingly common. Indeed, many business owners go for long periods of time without paying themselves anything. This is why when they turn up at work in a nice car or take a fancy holiday, it’s worth remembering the risk and sacrifice they would have made to enable them to afford those things.

[scouseVR6]

Ive worked in the motor trade for 25 years and i have never found a decent employer that pays a good wage, some garages expect you to work 8-6 Monday to Friday and 8.30 till 3 saturdays, there is no work life balance,
Dealerships always move the goal posts in relation to bonuses, acheive it one month and theres another 5K to find the next month for you to acheive your bonus
Even our master techs earn next to nothing for diagnosing vehicles using rubbish manufacturing systems
The staff turn around for some places is ridiculous thats why i left and now work in the power industry