964 or 996.2 GT3 (and why)
Discussion
What are your thoughts on these two cars?
They both seem to be similar money but rather different propositions. I would primarily use the car on the road and they would be occasional cars for fun or trips (I am British but based in Prague). I don't need to do much mileage as I don't need to commute and I will want a manual car.
I love the styling of the 964 and it's my idea of what a 911 should look like as I got into cars as a kid when this was the current 911.
The 996 has grown on me and a GT product with a Metzger engine is a very attractive proposition at the current price point. I'd probably prefer a 997 GT3 but it might be more than I want to spend at the moment. It's a possibility though if the right car came along.
I've previously drive a 991.2 GT3 but not owned one and my previous 911 was a 991.2 GTS, which I liked but didn't love (great fun on the track but I felt it was too much for the road and I needed to be going too fast to feel that the car had come alive). Previous cars that I have enjoyed were a TVR Griffith 500 SE and E92 M3 (until the engine went on the Autobahn).
I'm interested in your thoughts on these cars and if you have any tips on these to look at and watch out for when viewing these cars then it would be very much appreciated.
They both seem to be similar money but rather different propositions. I would primarily use the car on the road and they would be occasional cars for fun or trips (I am British but based in Prague). I don't need to do much mileage as I don't need to commute and I will want a manual car.
I love the styling of the 964 and it's my idea of what a 911 should look like as I got into cars as a kid when this was the current 911.
The 996 has grown on me and a GT product with a Metzger engine is a very attractive proposition at the current price point. I'd probably prefer a 997 GT3 but it might be more than I want to spend at the moment. It's a possibility though if the right car came along.
I've previously drive a 991.2 GT3 but not owned one and my previous 911 was a 991.2 GTS, which I liked but didn't love (great fun on the track but I felt it was too much for the road and I needed to be going too fast to feel that the car had come alive). Previous cars that I have enjoyed were a TVR Griffith 500 SE and E92 M3 (until the engine went on the Autobahn).
I'm interested in your thoughts on these cars and if you have any tips on these to look at and watch out for when viewing these cars then it would be very much appreciated.
Both great cars (I have had both) but chalk and cheese. You really to need to try both and decide which is for you.
PS a 996 GT3 comes alive on a twisty bumpy road at surprisingly low speeds. Can be quite a handful as - geo depending - they tend to follow every change in the surface.
PS a 996 GT3 comes alive on a twisty bumpy road at surprisingly low speeds. Can be quite a handful as - geo depending - they tend to follow every change in the surface.
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 1st October 21:56
The 964 is the classic 911 and would probably generate more positive attention. It would feel more agricultural and slower than a 996 GT3.
The 996 GT3 is quicker, more modern and I'd say easier to live with. There are more for sale and they're likely to be in better overall condition as newer and probably haven't dropped as far as 964's did.
No wrong choice if you can find the right car. It depends which you like when you drive it.
The 996 GT3 is quicker, more modern and I'd say easier to live with. There are more for sale and they're likely to be in better overall condition as newer and probably haven't dropped as far as 964's did.
No wrong choice if you can find the right car. It depends which you like when you drive it.
If you are going to be doing most of your driving on roads and your start point is Prague, I would go 996. You have some of the best roads and scenery in the world within a few hours, and the better state of the road surface, but less congestion that we face in parts of the UK - so you'll be able/wanting to stretch your journeys and for me the 964's age/ability/comfort? would be a constraint.
But as said, try both. Watch for rust on the 964, under the sill covers just before the rear wheels/arches?
Good luck.
But as said, try both. Watch for rust on the 964, under the sill covers just before the rear wheels/arches?
Good luck.
Discombobulate said:
Both great cars (I have had both) but chalk and cheese. You really to need to try both and decide which is for you.
PS a 996 GT3 comes alive on a twisty bumpy road at surprisingly low speeds. Can be quite a handful as - geo depending - they tend to follow every change in the surface.
Thanks.PS a 996 GT3 comes alive on a twisty bumpy road at surprisingly low speeds. Can be quite a handful as - geo depending - they tend to follow every change in the surface.
Edited by Discombobulate on Friday 1st October 21:56
The country roads here are great - mostly quite new surfaces, smooth, well-sighted and little traffic.
I love the styling of the 964 but I also like the idea of having a GT car and the 996 is somehow looking far better than it used to and it's at a good price point.
I'll have to see if I can try them, although I have no doubt that I'd like the 996 GT3 and the 964 is a bigger question in my mind.
Orangecurry said:
If you are going to be doing most of your driving on roads and your start point is Prague, I would go 996. You have some of the best roads and scenery in the world within a few hours, and the better state of the road surface, but less congestion that we face in parts of the UK - so you'll be able/wanting to stretch your journeys and for me the 964's age/ability/comfort? would be a constraint.
But as said, try both. Watch for rust on the 964, under the sill covers just before the rear wheels/arches?
Good luck.
The country roads here are great and Prague's very well located for some fabulous trips, which does make me lean toward a newer car. But as said, try both. Watch for rust on the 964, under the sill covers just before the rear wheels/arches?
Good luck.
I was initially thinking about the 997 GT3 but the price of the 996 is very compelling and the styling has somehow grown on me (it was only ever the lights that I didn't like but they somehow don't look quite so bad these days).
I've seen a few 996 for around £60-70K that look very good in terms of history and condition. I could also get a 964 for £40-50K here and have money to make it how I want it. Very different cars I expect. I would guess the 996 would be more useable on a regular basis.
Are there particular things I should be checking with the 996, other than the usual history?
Tough choice. I have a GT3 but still love 964s, of which I had a C2 manual coupe and a Turbo.
GT3
Newer so less corrosion worries and probably less miles, less owners, less everything.
Better air-con and cheaper to fix if it packs in.
Way faster (easy to get to 400hp) and a different league dynamically.
Sounds better at full chat.
Look great although some folk still use the headlights to try and talk them down.
964
Classic looks
Sounds better at low revs
Slow by everyday standards (250hp. 300 with a fair bit of expense)
Will need way more fettling to keep tip top
Old so higher miles, owners and higher chance of corrosion.
GT3 wins hands down apart from on looks but a sorted 964 is a lovely car.
I’m happy to own a GT3 but still want a 964 whenever I see one. I know I’d regret it though for everything other than looks.
GT3
Newer so less corrosion worries and probably less miles, less owners, less everything.
Better air-con and cheaper to fix if it packs in.
Way faster (easy to get to 400hp) and a different league dynamically.
Sounds better at full chat.
Look great although some folk still use the headlights to try and talk them down.
964
Classic looks
Sounds better at low revs
Slow by everyday standards (250hp. 300 with a fair bit of expense)
Will need way more fettling to keep tip top
Old so higher miles, owners and higher chance of corrosion.
GT3 wins hands down apart from on looks but a sorted 964 is a lovely car.
I’m happy to own a GT3 but still want a 964 whenever I see one. I know I’d regret it though for everything other than looks.
marky911 said:
Tough choice. I have a GT3 but still love 964s, of which I had a C2 manual coupe and a Turbo.
GT3
Newer so less corrosion worries and probably less miles, less owners, less everything.
Better air-con and cheaper to fix if it packs in.
Way faster (easy to get to 400hp) and a different league dynamically.
Sounds better at full chat.
Look great although some folk still use the headlights to try and talk them down.
964
Classic looks
Sounds better at low revs
Slow by everyday standards (250hp. 300 with a fair bit of expense)
Will need way more fettling to keep tip top
Old so higher miles, owners and higher chance of corrosion.
GT3 wins hands down apart from on looks but a sorted 964 is a lovely car.
I’m happy to own a GT3 but still want a 964 whenever I see one. I know I’d regret it though for everything other than looks.
There is a dealer not all that far from where I am that has two 996 GT3s - a silver and a yellow, both at what seem to be good prices. The silver one has carbon on the tunnel and around the media, etc, on the centre console - was this an option at that time?GT3
Newer so less corrosion worries and probably less miles, less owners, less everything.
Better air-con and cheaper to fix if it packs in.
Way faster (easy to get to 400hp) and a different league dynamically.
Sounds better at full chat.
Look great although some folk still use the headlights to try and talk them down.
964
Classic looks
Sounds better at low revs
Slow by everyday standards (250hp. 300 with a fair bit of expense)
Will need way more fettling to keep tip top
Old so higher miles, owners and higher chance of corrosion.
GT3 wins hands down apart from on looks but a sorted 964 is a lovely car.
I’m happy to own a GT3 but still want a 964 whenever I see one. I know I’d regret it though for everything other than looks.
The yellow looks rather nice.
One has just had full OPC service and the other will be provided with OPC service and full inspection.
I am leaning toward the 996 GT3 but there's a 964 locally that I'll have a look at to see how I feel about it.
Hi, yep carbon fibre pack was a genuine option. There are aftermarket parts available too though.
Any genuine options should appear on the under bonnet sticker which is also duplicated in the front of the service book.
This website tells you what they all are.
https://www.stuttcars.com/technical/option-codes/9...
One of the most important codes is C16. That means U.K. car. No it doesn’t actually alter the car but most U.K. buyers want an original U.K. car.
Apart from that though, a GT3 won’t generally have loads of extras spec’d.
Yellow is a very sought after colour. Yellow or guards red are probably top, but it’s all personal.
Yes have a look at the 964 too. Depends if you want Classic motoring or something more dynamic but still special and analogue.
Good luck.
Any genuine options should appear on the under bonnet sticker which is also duplicated in the front of the service book.
This website tells you what they all are.
https://www.stuttcars.com/technical/option-codes/9...
One of the most important codes is C16. That means U.K. car. No it doesn’t actually alter the car but most U.K. buyers want an original U.K. car.
Apart from that though, a GT3 won’t generally have loads of extras spec’d.
Yellow is a very sought after colour. Yellow or guards red are probably top, but it’s all personal.
Yes have a look at the 964 too. Depends if you want Classic motoring or something more dynamic but still special and analogue.
Good luck.
marky911 said:
Hi, yep carbon fibre pack was a genuine option. There are aftermarket parts available too though.
Any genuine options should appear on the under bonnet sticker which is also duplicated in the front of the service book.
This website tells you what they all are.
https://www.stuttcars.com/technical/option-codes/9...
One of the most important codes is C16. That means U.K. car. No it doesn’t actually alter the car but most U.K. buyers want an original U.K. car.
Apart from that though, a GT3 won’t generally have loads of extras spec’d.
Yellow is a very sought after colour. Yellow or guards red are probably top, but it’s all personal.
Yes have a look at the 964 too. Depends if you want Classic motoring or something more dynamic but still special and analogue.
Good luck.
Thanks.Any genuine options should appear on the under bonnet sticker which is also duplicated in the front of the service book.
This website tells you what they all are.
https://www.stuttcars.com/technical/option-codes/9...
One of the most important codes is C16. That means U.K. car. No it doesn’t actually alter the car but most U.K. buyers want an original U.K. car.
Apart from that though, a GT3 won’t generally have loads of extras spec’d.
Yellow is a very sought after colour. Yellow or guards red are probably top, but it’s all personal.
Yes have a look at the 964 too. Depends if you want Classic motoring or something more dynamic but still special and analogue.
Good luck.
C16 isn't going to be an important code for me as it will be kept in Prague.
The yellow looks good, although I think most colours I have seen on these look good. Strong colours work well though.
LHD Mk1 996 CS owner and occaisional air cooled user here... 964 are pretty... but at the same price point to a 996 GT3 - surely it's a joke? You couldn't give them away at one point...
yes, they are a design classic, yes they are analogue, yes they are rare...
but so is the 996 GT3
far superior dynamically, the crank case still has a 964 part number to please the beards, much easier to maintain, much better parts availability, don't rust, look great in their own way, rarity value, pure analogue experience too...
yes, they are a design classic, yes they are analogue, yes they are rare...
but so is the 996 GT3
far superior dynamically, the crank case still has a 964 part number to please the beards, much easier to maintain, much better parts availability, don't rust, look great in their own way, rarity value, pure analogue experience too...
I had a look at a red 964 today in a local garage. There was also a 2.7 RS, 512M and 488, all in rather lovely condition. The 964 is apparently part of a collection.
The 964 appears to be in exceptional condition. Originally from Japan, so not really any particular history. The paint had been redone on the passenger side (measured while I was there - about 120 on the roof and under 200 in other places but 480 to 520 on the passenger side - door and in front and behind the door).
Arches, liners, scuttle, under the lights and in the trunk under the carpet all appeared to be unmarked. It has about 24,000 miles on the clock. It seems to be rather exceptional. I had not arranged to go in and see it - thought I'd surprise them - so the battery was flat. I didn't have long so I'll pop back and have another look. Sitting inside the car it felt very nice and the interior appearance is like new.
The yellow 996 GT3 seems very good with a fresh OPC service and 111-point check done. Around £60K net with import to pay as it's just outside the EU - I've no idea how that would work into Czech but it seems like a very good buy potentially.
The 964 appears to be in exceptional condition. Originally from Japan, so not really any particular history. The paint had been redone on the passenger side (measured while I was there - about 120 on the roof and under 200 in other places but 480 to 520 on the passenger side - door and in front and behind the door).
Arches, liners, scuttle, under the lights and in the trunk under the carpet all appeared to be unmarked. It has about 24,000 miles on the clock. It seems to be rather exceptional. I had not arranged to go in and see it - thought I'd surprise them - so the battery was flat. I didn't have long so I'll pop back and have another look. Sitting inside the car it felt very nice and the interior appearance is like new.
The yellow 996 GT3 seems very good with a fresh OPC service and 111-point check done. Around £60K net with import to pay as it's just outside the EU - I've no idea how that would work into Czech but it seems like a very good buy potentially.
Edited by Griffith500 on Monday 4th October 16:57
Edited by Griffith500 on Monday 4th October 16:58
Unless you want to make a 964 into your ideal 911, then I'd still go 996 for the sheer 'jump in and go on adventures' ...and is there a Mrs 500? I'm betting she'd prefer to go with you in the 996.
Though that is a lovely 'starting point' 964 - suspension looks original, as do the 16" Cup1s, so that'll be first on your list.
ETA
Sunroof?
Though that is a lovely 'starting point' 964 - suspension looks original, as do the 16" Cup1s, so that'll be first on your list.
ETA
Sunroof?
Orangecurry said:
Unless you want to make a 964 into your ideal 911, then I'd still go 996 for the sheer 'jump in and go on adventures' ...and is there a Mrs 500? I'm betting she'd prefer to go with you in the 996.
Though that is a lovely 'starting point' 964 - suspension looks original, as do the 16" Cup1s, so that'll be first on your list.
ETA
Sunroof?
The 964 does have a sunroof - not something I ever open. On the face of it this does seem to be a very good example, although more investigation would be required. I'll get some more detailed photos when I go down to have another look.Though that is a lovely 'starting point' 964 - suspension looks original, as do the 16" Cup1s, so that'll be first on your list.
ETA
Sunroof?
I assume it would require more TLC over time than a 996 GT3 and the GT3 is an attractive proposition. As you say, it's more likely to be a safer bet for touring.
There is a Miss 500 - more like a Miss 400 - and she's not really bothered what I get (although she does think the yellow GT3 is a 'gay' colour, and she doesn't mean happy... Czech girls...). She did seem very taken by a black G Wagon that they had... I have my concerns about her...
I assume I could get my dog into the back of a GT3... she loved going in the back of my 991.2 GTS and was egging me on when we hit 280kph, although Miss 500 wasn't thrilled.
I think the GT3 would be the easy option in a lot of ways - there's no doubt that it would provide what I am looking for and what I didn't feel that I got in the 991.2 GTS (Miss 500 preferred the E92 M3 to the GTS - it sounded much better apparently and I don't disagree). When I tried the 991.1 GT3 I found the sound and feel of the car to be so much more engaging, even with PDK. I suspect that the 964 would be a very different ownership and driving experience.
I did love the look of the 964 though and it does seem to be a very nice example on the face of it. There's probably £30K difference in price. Maybe the GT3 would be better value long-term though. When I like a car I tend to hold onto it. I sold the 991.2 GTS when I moved overseas and I haven't missed it at all, although it was fund around Brands Hatch.
Cheburator mk2 said:
LHD Mk1 996 CS owner and occaisional air cooled user here... 964 are pretty... but at the same price point to a 996 GT3 - surely it's a joke? You couldn't give them away at one point...
yes, they are a design classic, yes they are analogue, yes they are rare...
but so is the 996 GT3
far superior dynamically, the crank case still has a 964 part number to please the beards, much easier to maintain, much better parts availability, don't rust, look great in their own way, rarity value, pure analogue experience too...
This particular 964 is going for just over £40K, whereas the 996 GT3 would be nearer £70K. yes, they are a design classic, yes they are analogue, yes they are rare...
but so is the 996 GT3
far superior dynamically, the crank case still has a 964 part number to please the beards, much easier to maintain, much better parts availability, don't rust, look great in their own way, rarity value, pure analogue experience too...
The 964 is somewhat a fad at today's prices. In its time it was viewed as just a cheap and very cynical restyle of the previous G-series. Which it actually was, as Porsche had no money for anything else. Just like the 968 was of the 944. And in turn, the 993 was yet another milking, albeit a more successful one, but nonetheless. A 996 GT3 has more inherent value than a boggo 964, that will outlive "fashion" pricing.
996TT02 said:
The 964 is somewhat a fad at today's prices. In its time it was viewed as just a cheap and very cynical restyle of the previous G-series. Which it actually was, as Porsche had no money for anything else. Just like the 968 was of the 944. And in turn, the 993 was yet another milking, albeit a more successful one, but nonetheless. A 996 GT3 has more inherent value than a boggo 964, that will outlive "fashion" pricing.
I agree with a lot of that BUT the 964 looks like a 911 to me (by which I mean, when I was a kid and got into cars, that's what a 911 looked like).Griffith500 said:
996TT02 said:
The 964 is somewhat a fad at today's prices. In its time it was viewed as just a cheap and very cynical restyle of the previous G-series. Which it actually was, as Porsche had no money for anything else. Just like the 968 was of the 944. And in turn, the 993 was yet another milking, albeit a more successful one, but nonetheless. A 996 GT3 has more inherent value than a boggo 964, that will outlive "fashion" pricing.
I agree with a lot of that BUT the 964 looks like a 911 to me (by which I mean, when I was a kid and got into cars, that's what a 911 looked like).Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff