Disclosing pay rise offer

[TheDrownedApe]

Ignorant worker here and google can't help me.

I work for a big company who dish out annual pay rises. These are negotiated with the TUs, however I'm not a member.

Firstly - can TU reps, who are in active negotiations, disclose the "offers" to their members (before final offer vote etc).

If NO, ignore 2 and 3.

Secondly - as a non-member am i allowed to know the initial and subsequesnt offers (before final offer etc)
Thirdly - can i represent myself in negotiations?

My boss wouldn't know the answer and would probably frown upon me asking (he is a live-to-work chappy, and pay is just a bonus to him).

[Ussrcossack]

Id think the TUs would keep members updated of offers, so yes would be the answer.

I'd doubt that you could negoiate yourself as the bargaining is collective with the TU and you'll probably have a pay band, alos if you neg something else could we be looking at equal pay

[edc]

If you are not a member of the TU then you won't receive any of the official communications. They are under no duty or obligation to tell you anything. That doesn't stop you from asking a member directly yourself.

[PorkInsider]

As above, you're likely part of the 'collective bargaining' agreement between the union and company for pay awards.

You'll get what they agree, if that's the case.

You won't be able to vote on it as it will be a union members' vote.

[NuckyThompson]

As above.

Any reason you’re not a member though? It’s in your interest for a number of reasons

[Gary C]

Its something that happens where we work. The unions negotiate on collective agreement with the recognised unions, the non-union employees take what they are given (and so do the members I suppose )

But, while I despised some of the actions of the 70's Unions, I would recommend anyone in such an environment to join the union in your workplace. For me, its essential protection.

[anonymous-user]

Ussrcossack said:

I'd doubt that you could negotiate yourself as the bargaining is collective with the TU and you'll probably have a pay band, also if you neg something else could we be looking at equal pay

he could negotiate himself if he wanted, but probably get no where. He will get the benifits of the TU deal.

I'm not a fan of TU, the whole set up is like the mafia, they only look out for themselves.

[aka_kerrly]

The Spruce Goose said:

he could negotiate himself if he wanted, but probably get no where. He will get the benifits of the TU deal.

I'm not a fan of TU, the whole set up is like the mafia, they only look out for themselves.

I think the whole concept of unions is hugely outdated and utterly pointless when there is tonnes of employment law to ensure staff/employers behave themselves.

The union at my workplace are utterly incapable of anything other than disparately trying to justify their existence. They spend over a year negotiating a 1% pay rise and the only other activity they perform is putting up pointless posters

[Gary C]

The Spruce Goose said:

he could negotiate himself if he wanted, but probably get no where. He will get the benifits of the TU deal.

I'm not a fan of TU, the whole set up is like the mafia, they only look out for themselves.

I understand totally, but unions dont have to be like a mafia.

At my work they provide essential support to workers like myself especially in legal support if things went wrong and someone got hurt.

They meant that I have always had good pay and a fantastic pension.

Again, I despised some of the actions of the unions in the 70's and 80's but, I think the workers of today could do with some help from a modern style of union.

[Countdown]

TheDrownedApe said:

Ignorant worker here and google can't help me.

I work for a big company who dish out annual pay rises. These are negotiated with the TUs, however I'm not a member.

Firstly - can TU reps, who are in active negotiations, disclose the "offers" to their members (before final offer vote etc).

Yes

TheDrownedApe said:

Secondly - as a non-member am i allowed to know the initial and subsequesnt offers (before final offer etc)

depends on whether management, the TU, or any of the members choose to tell you. there is nothing to stop you being aware, but equally there's no formal obligation on anybody to make sure you're kept informed.

TheDrownedApe said:

Thirdly - can i represent myself in negotiations?

Yes you can.

[Countdown]

The Spruce Goose said:

he could negotiate himself if he wanted, but probably get no where. He will get the benifits of the TU deal.

I'm not a fan of TU, the whole set up is like the mafia, they only look out for themselves.

Not really. That's as much of a generalisation as saying Management are all evil capitalist tyrants> You get good/bad managers just as you get good/bad Trade Union reps.

[anonymous-user]

Countdown said:

Not really. That's as much of a generalisation as saying Management are all evil capitalist tyrants> You get good/bad managers just as you get good/bad Trade Union reps.

Yes but the reps are not in control of the dues..

During the miners strike, whilst the strikers went without, money food etc, Arthur Scargill lived in a penthouse paid for by the members.

Whats changed, just more idiots paying up.

I had the union speech a few times, look after you etc, but they look after the union first and always.

Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 5th October 15:26

[TheDrownedApe]

Thanks all.

I understand as an individual i will get nowhere and i beneifit from the collective power of the TU in this instance.

I was just keen to know whether my employer are obliged to tell me as a non-TU member the potential offer at the same stage they offer it to the main TU.

[V8mate]

Countdown said:

TheDrownedApe said:

Thirdly - can i represent myself in negotiations?

Yes you can.

Not if the employer has granted a collective bargaining agreement he can't.

[Gary C]

The Spruce Goose said:

Yes but the reps are not in control of the dues..

During the miners strike, whilst the strikers went without, money food etc, Arthur Scargill lived in a penthouse paid for by the members.

Whats changed, just more idiots paying up.

I had the union speech a few times, look after you etc, but they look after the union first and always.

Edited by The Spruce Goose on Tuesday 5th October 15:26

There was an incident in the company I worked for at the time.

A Senior Authorised Person, who's role is to provide safety for people to work on dangerous equipment, gave a verbal instruction to grant permission to work on a 11,000V circuit breaker that had been removed from its cubicle and therefore safe. The verbal instruction basically was, "you can work on the breaker, but not in the cubicle".

The maintenance person ignored this, took a part of the cubicle and stuck his head in. The 11,000V flashover killed him instantly.

The SAP was arrested, charged and taken to crown court.

The union provided a barrister and expert witnesses who, quite frankly, embarrassed the prosecution and he was found not guilty. Now, that was the correct outcome but without the union support, that person was at risk of either going to prison for a long time, or having a hefty legal bill.

I know, that I can pick up a phone, and have legal representation within hours.

[xx99xx]

I didn't think you could represent yourself as you're (probably) not a recognised trade union. The employer will want to formally 'recognise' the union before entering into negotiations.

Employer would be unlikely to recognise a sole person for several reasons but also, without a large group of employees in your union you have little/no bargaining power.

The forum for individuals to negotiate salaries/conditions is with their manager. Which in your case might be a dead end but no harm in going further up the line to ask. Alternatively you could embark on a collective grievance with HR if there is a group of employees being unfairly disadvantaged. How well this will go down with management can vary.

[voram]

TheDrownedApe said:

I was just keen to know whether my employer are obliged to tell me as a non-TU member the potential offer at the same stage they offer it to the main TU.

The answer is "no".

As someone mentioned above there are usually a number of worthwhile advantages that come with union membership whether or not you have any interest in the TU.

[Countdown]

V8mate said:

Countdown said:

TheDrownedApe said:

Thirdly - can i represent myself in negotiations?

Yes you can.

Not if the employer has granted a collective bargaining agreement he can't.

There is nothing in a collective bargaining agreement that stops anybody from going to their Manager and asking for a pay rise.

ETA I know, because I've done it.

[anonymous-user]

Countdown said:

There is nothing in a collective bargaining agreement that stops anybody from going to their Manager and asking for a pay rise.

yes, if he got one though better to keep mouth shut.

[donkmeister]

Countdown said:

V8mate said:

Countdown said:

TheDrownedApe said:

Thirdly - can i represent myself in negotiations?

Yes you can.

Not if the employer has granted a collective bargaining agreement he can't.

There is nothing in a collective bargaining agreement that stops anybody from going to their Manager and asking for a pay rise.

ETA I know, because I've done it.

Exactly this. Companies like collective bargaining because it doesn't mean diverting lots of time and effort to individual pay discussions and reduces ill-feeling between staff, but if you are some hotshot maverick who the company would be lost without then it can be done.

I worked for a large company where the usual approach was to periodically say you had a better offer somewhere else and hand in your notice, then the company would come back with a payrise.

It worked really well, until it didn't. One year the company needed to make redundancies so just accepted the letters.