Immigration. Are We Due An Apology?
Discussion
For years anyone who criticised the mass immigration into the UK was called a thick gammon racist. It was all good. Increasing GDP , diverstity etc. No downsides.
Turns out it was after all depressing working class wages. It was understandable that the latte drinking au pair employing classes who enjoyed cheap Polish plumbers would welcome it but why was it supported by Labour, the party of the working classes when it was obviously against their interests?
Prompted by
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/10/06/case-m...
"For the past twenty years, everyone from big business to the economic establishment to Left-leaning wonks pumping out think-tank papers lectured us on how mass immigration made no difference to wages. In fact, it made us all richer.
But hold on. Now that we have left the EU and put in place some modest, normal restrictions on who can come into the country, it turns out that wages – and blue-collar wages most of all – are soaring. The immigration lie has been exposed for what it was. A deceit. And we are owed an apology.
If Shell had a couple of tanker drivers for every “expert” who told us that mass, low-skilled immigration had no impact on wages then the fuel crisis would be fixed in the blink of an eye. "
Turns out it was after all depressing working class wages. It was understandable that the latte drinking au pair employing classes who enjoyed cheap Polish plumbers would welcome it but why was it supported by Labour, the party of the working classes when it was obviously against their interests?
Prompted by
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/10/06/case-m...
"For the past twenty years, everyone from big business to the economic establishment to Left-leaning wonks pumping out think-tank papers lectured us on how mass immigration made no difference to wages. In fact, it made us all richer.
But hold on. Now that we have left the EU and put in place some modest, normal restrictions on who can come into the country, it turns out that wages – and blue-collar wages most of all – are soaring. The immigration lie has been exposed for what it was. A deceit. And we are owed an apology.
If Shell had a couple of tanker drivers for every “expert” who told us that mass, low-skilled immigration had no impact on wages then the fuel crisis would be fixed in the blink of an eye. "
irc said:
For years anyone who criticised the mass immigration into the UK was called a thick gammon racist. It was all good. Increasing GDP , diverstity etc. No downsides.
Turns out it was after all depressing working class wages. It was understandable that the latte drinking au pair employing classes who enjoyed cheap Polish plumbers would welcome it but why was it supported by Labour, the party of the working classes when it was obviously against their interests?
Prompted by
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/10/06/case-m...
"For the past twenty years, everyone from big business to the economic establishment to Left-leaning wonks pumping out think-tank papers lectured us on how mass immigration made no difference to wages. In fact, it made us all richer.
But hold on. Now that we have left the EU and put in place some modest, normal restrictions on who can come into the country, it turns out that wages – and blue-collar wages most of all – are soaring. The immigration lie has been exposed for what it was. A deceit. And we are owed an apology.
If Shell had a couple of tanker drivers for every “expert” who told us that mass, low-skilled immigration had no impact on wages then the fuel crisis would be fixed in the blink of an eye. "
Enjoy the inflation and associated increase in interest rates that both erode those pay rises and increase in your mortgage payments / housing crash. Turns out it was after all depressing working class wages. It was understandable that the latte drinking au pair employing classes who enjoyed cheap Polish plumbers would welcome it but why was it supported by Labour, the party of the working classes when it was obviously against their interests?
Prompted by
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/10/06/case-m...
"For the past twenty years, everyone from big business to the economic establishment to Left-leaning wonks pumping out think-tank papers lectured us on how mass immigration made no difference to wages. In fact, it made us all richer.
But hold on. Now that we have left the EU and put in place some modest, normal restrictions on who can come into the country, it turns out that wages – and blue-collar wages most of all – are soaring. The immigration lie has been exposed for what it was. A deceit. And we are owed an apology.
If Shell had a couple of tanker drivers for every “expert” who told us that mass, low-skilled immigration had no impact on wages then the fuel crisis would be fixed in the blink of an eye. "
Anyone who thought a pool of hundreds of millions of workers from lower wage economies would have no effect on wages here is a bit weird, or just a denialist.
However the bill for this change is still being totted up and we're all going to pay for it, and many may well wind up considerably worse off than before.
Not fully acknowledging that makes this article utterly moronic.
However the bill for this change is still being totted up and we're all going to pay for it, and many may well wind up considerably worse off than before.
Not fully acknowledging that makes this article utterly moronic.
Certainly the influx of labour supressed wages but consumers also benefitted from low CPI and low interest rates (i.e. very high house prices.) I don't think the change is a bad thing in Britain and would argue it should be allowed to persist. Improve labour productivity as businesses modernise and invest would be another welcome side effect, though that may take a little longer.
The only note of caution I would have is that with fewer workers and more retirees in the UK either taxes per worker will increase or benefits per retiree will decrease.
The only note of caution I would have is that with fewer workers and more retirees in the UK either taxes per worker will increase or benefits per retiree will decrease.
Imagine looking at the last few months and coming to the conclusion that it proves that immigration is bad.
Wages are spiking now because people are panicking, they'll drop again once the supply and demand gap closes. What keeps wages for bottom rung workers low is the lack of a decent minimum wage.
Wages are spiking now because people are panicking, they'll drop again once the supply and demand gap closes. What keeps wages for bottom rung workers low is the lack of a decent minimum wage.
irc said:
For years anyone who criticised the mass immigration into the UK was called a thick gammon racist. It was all good. Increasing GDP , diverstity etc. No downsides.
Turns out it was after all depressing working class wages. It was understandable that the latte drinking au pair employing classes who enjoyed cheap Polish plumbers would welcome it but why was it supported by Labour, the party of the working classes when it was obviously against their interests?
Prompted by
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/10/06/case-m...
"For the past twenty years, everyone from big business to the economic establishment to Left-leaning wonks pumping out think-tank papers lectured us on how mass immigration made no difference to wages. In fact, it made us all richer.
But hold on. Now that we have left the EU and put in place some modest, normal restrictions on who can come into the country, it turns out that wages – and blue-collar wages most of all – are soaring. The immigration lie has been exposed for what it was. A deceit. And we are owed an apology.
If Shell had a couple of tanker drivers for every “expert” who told us that mass, low-skilled immigration had no impact on wages then the fuel crisis would be fixed in the blink of an eye. "
Have immigration numbers fallen off a cliff then?Turns out it was after all depressing working class wages. It was understandable that the latte drinking au pair employing classes who enjoyed cheap Polish plumbers would welcome it but why was it supported by Labour, the party of the working classes when it was obviously against their interests?
Prompted by
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/10/06/case-m...
"For the past twenty years, everyone from big business to the economic establishment to Left-leaning wonks pumping out think-tank papers lectured us on how mass immigration made no difference to wages. In fact, it made us all richer.
But hold on. Now that we have left the EU and put in place some modest, normal restrictions on who can come into the country, it turns out that wages – and blue-collar wages most of all – are soaring. The immigration lie has been exposed for what it was. A deceit. And we are owed an apology.
If Shell had a couple of tanker drivers for every “expert” who told us that mass, low-skilled immigration had no impact on wages then the fuel crisis would be fixed in the blink of an eye. "
I think you need to check the numbers - https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunit...
the ONS said:
Non-EU net migration has increased since 2013
And is the highest its ever been....https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunit...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_immigration_t...
And this tory Gov is currently pleading for EU workers to return because we're running short of all sorts of products.
PurpleTurtle said:
1) Who do you want to apologise to you?
2) Are you ready for cost-push inflation, and the commensurate increase in interest rates to counter that?
That problem is not confined to the U.K. it is now a mainland European, USA problem with Southern Asia and China coming up with their own problems. 2) Are you ready for cost-push inflation, and the commensurate increase in interest rates to counter that?
I just want to thank those that got us out of the EU, look at it’s financial headache coming to the fore.
Global supply lines UU, are Global at the moment.
speedy_thrills said:
Certainly the influx of labour supressed wages but consumers also benefitted from low CPI and low interest rates (i.e. very high house prices.)
.
Assuming they already owned a house with sufficient space of course. For many it has meant either not being able to own their own home or not being able to own the homes they aspire to and would once have been able to afford. .
Ironically those who did most benefit from the above (the boomers) were those most likely to vote to end FOM. Which just goes to show it is not all about economic wellbeing at an individual household level.
bloomen said:
Anyone who thought a pool of hundreds of millions of workers from lower wage economies would have no effect on wages here is a bit weird, or just a denialist.
However the bill for this change is still being totted up and we're all going to pay for it, and many may well wind up considerably worse off than before.
Likely true enough for the second part of your post. A likely future outcome, in my view, is a bit more productivity growth and a bit more realignment of household incomes. I.E. globalisation boosted the earnings of knowledge workers in comparison to the rest, a partial reversal of that process will likely partially reverse that process. Leaving working class workers a bit better off and those higher up the income scales a bit worse off. I am sure all our "progressive" posters will be overjoyed.........However the bill for this change is still being totted up and we're all going to pay for it, and many may well wind up considerably worse off than before.
JagLover said:
Assuming they already owned a house with sufficient space of course. For many it has meant either not being able to own their own home or not being able to own the homes they aspire to and would once have been able to afford.
Ironically those who did most benefit from the above (the boomers) were those most likely to vote to end FOM. Which just goes to show it is not all about economic wellbeing at an individual household level.
Would you be surprised that the house price inflation rate is as high this year as it has ever been?Ironically those who did most benefit from the above (the boomers) were those most likely to vote to end FOM. Which just goes to show it is not all about economic wellbeing at an individual household level.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/751619/house-p...
https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpricein...
At the moment it looks like banning FOM has greatly benefitted those greedy Boomers with their tax payer subsidised house values, the ones you state have already benefitted the most!
Unknown_User said:
JagLover said:
Assuming they already owned a house with sufficient space of course. For many it has meant either not being able to own their own home or not being able to own the homes they aspire to and would once have been able to afford.
Ironically those who did most benefit from the above (the boomers) were those most likely to vote to end FOM. Which just goes to show it is not all about economic wellbeing at an individual household level.
Would you be surprised that the house price inflation rate is as high this year as it has ever been?Ironically those who did most benefit from the above (the boomers) were those most likely to vote to end FOM. Which just goes to show it is not all about economic wellbeing at an individual household level.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/751619/house-p...
https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpricein...
At the moment it looks like banning FOM has greatly benefitted those greedy Boomers with their tax payer subsidised house values, the ones you state have already benefitted the most!
JagLover said:
speedy_thrills said:
Certainly the influx of labour supressed wages but consumers also benefitted from low CPI and low interest rates (i.e. very high house prices.)
.
Assuming they already owned a house with sufficient space of course. For many it has meant either not being able to own their own home or not being able to own the homes they aspire to and would once have been able to afford. .
Ironically those who did most benefit from the above (the boomers) were those most likely to vote to end FOM. Which just goes to show it is not all about economic wellbeing at an individual household level.
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