Inductive charging
Discussion
Northernboy said:
Phunk said:
Not available yet. It's not a huge faff just plugging the car in, plus it'll be more efficent.
It’s more the expected cost of replacing the wall box each time my wife drives off with it attached.Inductive charging could, in some circumstances play a very small part in charging, but it's expensive and inefficient. Why would you choose a system to charge you car that wastes around 25% or more of the energy going through it, equivalent to paying 25% more for your 'lecy???
Max_Torque said:
er, there is no EV i know that will let you engage drive or reverse with the charging cable attached. in fact, it's a specific test, that the transmission parking brake cannot be removed when a cable is in the socket!
Inductive charging could, in some circumstances play a very small part in charging, but it's expensive and inefficient. Why would you choose a system to charge you car that wastes around 25% or more of the energy going through it, equivalent to paying 25% more for your 'lecy???
Because it saves a bit of time and still costs effectively nothing.Inductive charging could, in some circumstances play a very small part in charging, but it's expensive and inefficient. Why would you choose a system to charge you car that wastes around 25% or more of the energy going through it, equivalent to paying 25% more for your 'lecy???
Where are you getting your numbers from though; it seems quite pessimistic;
https://insideevs.com/news/340478/120-kw-wireless-...
And if it wastes 25% that’s equivalent to paying 33% more…
Phunk said:
Not available yet. It's not a huge faff just plugging the car in, plus it'll be more efficent.
Wireless car charging is definately available, it's just not available to the masses yet...https://youtu.be/fo93tE9FcWA
Northernboy said:
Max_Torque said:
er, there is no EV i know that will let you engage drive or reverse with the charging cable attached. in fact, it's a specific test, that the transmission parking brake cannot be removed when a cable is in the socket!
Inductive charging could, in some circumstances play a very small part in charging, but it's expensive and inefficient. Why would you choose a system to charge you car that wastes around 25% or more of the energy going through it, equivalent to paying 25% more for your 'lecy???
Because it saves a bit of time and still costs effectively nothing.Inductive charging could, in some circumstances play a very small part in charging, but it's expensive and inefficient. Why would you choose a system to charge you car that wastes around 25% or more of the energy going through it, equivalent to paying 25% more for your 'lecy???
Where are you getting your numbers from though; it seems quite pessimistic;
https://insideevs.com/news/340478/120-kw-wireless-...
And if it wastes 25% that’s equivalent to paying 33% more…
I also simpy don't believe their numbers, sorry. 97% effiicency is the typical average efficiency of a single votlage conversion stage with a practicable affordable converter, and the energy in ystem needs to go through the following steps:
AC mains->AC HF->antenna->RF energy->HF antenna->AC HF->DC
ie 5 steps, therefore to get 95% efficiency each step needs to be at least 99.4% efficient.
Now there are plenty of tricks you can play in on the bench, that can artificially boost the efficiency of a test converter, but in the real world, where costs, power factor correction, EMI/EMC, and production variabiliity all play a part, then efficiencys take a tumble......
The real system i have actually demo'd, set up at Idiada in Spain (the industry proving ground) had an installed delivery power of 50kW, and was 75% efficient.
The other issue is cost. For example, take a look at how much copper is required by the antenna:
and note the cables stranding, something called "litz" wire, ie a lot of very fine, helically wound individual strands. This is reduce AC skin effects at high frequency, and makes this wire very expensive!
Compare that to a simple conventional charging plug and socket, with a simple cable and some basic plated copper contacts.
And the other problem is that the car itself needs to be fitted with a matching reciever antenna. So now the OEs have to add and package that device. One reason OEs are moving to DC fast charging is actually because this requires no power conversion on the vehicle, which is done by the off board fast charger itself. The car only needs a socket and a pair of contactors and that's it. This will make AC charging an expensive option, which for most people, simply isn't worth that cost.
You'll also note from that pic ^^ if you look closely, two rather subtle but important details, which are the massive thick steel plate and massive beam forming magnets under the antenna loop! Those are critical to try to prevent too much of the H field escaping off and not getting used. Not entirely sure that is either practical nor cost effective on a real car........
I've driven an EV for 6 years now, and honestly i can't think of a time where "plugging it in" was really any kind of effort, and certianly less effort that going to a petrol station :-)
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 8th October 09:54
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 8th October 09:57
dave01253 said:
I have an induction charger for my mobile phone, and if the phone isn't positioned exactly where its supposed to be, It either charges very poorly or not at all. Also the distance above the coil is important too because if I have a thicker phone case on it, It won't charge.
There are cars coming out already that can charge this way, it’s really not a complex or difficult technology, and I reckon will be standard in a few years.https://mashable.com/article/genesis-gv60-wireless...
Northernboy said:
There are cars coming out already that can charge this way, it’s really not a complex or difficult technology, and I reckon will be standard in a few years.
er, i beg to differ. Moving any significant power across air, which has neither a high H or E field permiability is fundamentally difficult, certainly compared to pushing some electrons along a conductor, something they fundamentally want to do!google "ubeam" to see the mess people who say "how hard can it be" get themselves into when they don't actually understand the basic physics........
Max_Torque said:
er, i beg to differ. Moving any significant power across air, which has neither a high H or E field permiability is fundamentally difficult, certainly compared to pushing some electrons along a conductor, something they fundamentally want to do!
google "ubeam" to see the mess people who say "how hard can it be" get themselves into when they don't actually understand the basic physics........
It’s a good job I understand the basic physics then.google "ubeam" to see the mess people who say "how hard can it be" get themselves into when they don't actually understand the basic physics........
That Genesis looks pretty demo with only 600 to be offered with it, similar one I can think of is the Oslo Taxi IPACE fleet that charge at 50kW . Nothing easy about digging up your drive either and then hoping a crisp packet doesn’t blow underneath. Energy costs about to rocket and we want to let it leak out before getting to the car.
ruggedscotty said:
Inductive charging what about the developments in capacitative charging....
trouble with inductive is the generation of intense magnetic fields that could have an effect on anything that encorached into the transfer area
Given that it doesn’t fry the Canbus or melt the seat supports, what do you worry is going to happen to things “encroaching”?trouble with inductive is the generation of intense magnetic fields that could have an effect on anything that encorached into the transfer area
A dipole’s effect drops off as an inverse cube, there’s really no issue there for people nearby, as shown by the systems already being developed.
You’re also conflating electromagnetic fields with magnetic. You can stand very close to an incredibly powerful EM transmitter without any ill effects.
Edited by Northernboy on Friday 8th October 22:15
Northernboy said:
ruggedscotty said:
Inductive charging what about the developments in capacitative charging....
trouble with inductive is the generation of intense magnetic fields that could have an effect on anything that encorached into the transfer area
Given that it doesn’t fry the Canbus or melt the seat supports, what do you worry is going to happen to things “encroaching”?trouble with inductive is the generation of intense magnetic fields that could have an effect on anything that encorached into the transfer area
A dipole’s effect drops off as an inverse cube, there’s really no issue there for people nearby, as shown by the systems already being developed.
You’re also conflating electromagnetic fields with magnetic. You can stand very close to an incredibly powerful EM transmitter without any ill effects.
Edited by Northernboy on Friday 8th October 22:15
Max_Torque said:
Well since it's so easy, you'd best get on with it and get developing your inductive charging solution. .This time next year you could be a millionaire my son! :-)
It’s definitely a lot easier than my last project. That one needed to have protons surfing down a radio wave.BMW did have a go at this on the plug in 5 series.
https://www.sytner.co.uk/news/bmw-wireless-chargin...
https://www.sytner.co.uk/news/bmw-wireless-chargin...
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