Consumer Focussed Lawyer??
Discussion
You probably don't need a lawyer. Yet. It's a fairly straight forward act to get your head around. If its car with a fault then the following applies.
Within the first 30 days of purchase, you can return it for a full refund if it has a fault.
After 30 days and before 6 months you need to give them one chance to fix it after which if It's still faulty you can reject for a refund minus usage costs
After 6 months you have to prove the fault was present.
Have a read through this thread. It may save you some time and money.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Within the first 30 days of purchase, you can return it for a full refund if it has a fault.
After 30 days and before 6 months you need to give them one chance to fix it after which if It's still faulty you can reject for a refund minus usage costs
After 6 months you have to prove the fault was present.
Have a read through this thread. It may save you some time and money.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Canon_Fodder said:
Post up the issue here please and we'll all chip in with some advice - some of it may even be worth taking note of...
Here goes....Bought my 18k 2016 R8 V10+ on 11/8/21, used it daily, tracked the car on 27/8/21, used daily and the car suffered gearbox failure on 5/9/21, returning from a Supercar meet.
Told the dealership id be using it as a networking tool for my Supercar transport business, by doing runs, meets, shows, European road trips, trackdays etc etc. The dealership owner actually owned the R8 as his personal vehicle but sold it through his business. Not once did he tell me that if I tracked the car, I'd void my statutory rights, infact it was actively encouraged. The owner/director asked me to keep in touch post sale and send him pictures etc.
The car went to a detailing company for 5 days for 2 stage paint correction and ceramic coating, so I informed him and he was pleased for me.. Same as when I tracked the car. I messaged him and told him that I had just tracked the car for the first time and how great it was, and he replied telling me that I was awesome for doing so. Not once did he tell me I shouldn't be doing it.
Now, the gearbox failed 9 days after the track day and after covering a grand total of 676.9 miles since I bought the car on 11/8/21. The car was recovered to Audi from the roadside and Audi basically said it needs a new gearbox at the small sum of FORTY THOUSAND POUNDS.... Audi done a full diagnostic download and the car showed zero drivetrain faults until 5/9/21, proving I didn't damage the car on track and there's nothing I can physically do to make that gearbox do something that it's safety parameters won't let it do, unless it's safe to do so.
The car was daily driven between 27/8 and 5/9 with tracker proof and CCTV proof.
So, dealer digging his heels in...
Time to lawyer up.
I'm not posting pics, dealers company or anything else. Just the basics.
moonigan said:
You probably don't need a lawyer. Yet. It's a fairly straight forward act to get your head around. If its car with a fault then the following applies.
Within the first 30 days of purchase, you can return it for a full refund if it has a fault.
After 30 days and before 6 months you need to give them one chance to fix it after which if It's still faulty you can reject for a refund minus usage costs
After 6 months you have to prove the fault was present.
Have a read through this thread. It may save you some time and money.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
I already know all this, matey. Car's been off the road nigh on 6 weeks and I've done a lot of research regarding CRA 2015.Within the first 30 days of purchase, you can return it for a full refund if it has a fault.
After 30 days and before 6 months you need to give them one chance to fix it after which if It's still faulty you can reject for a refund minus usage costs
After 6 months you have to prove the fault was present.
Have a read through this thread. It may save you some time and money.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Read my last post and you'll understand why I'm seeking legal advice.
Gazmar1 said:
Not once did he tell me that if I tracked the car, I'd void my statutory rights,
Thanks for that OP. It is an interesting case. Re the quote above, is that the vendors position - that you have 'voided' your consumer rights by driving the car on track? If so, have they referred to anything in the CRA, or in their sale T&Cs that supports that assertion?
If it’s a 2016 car then it will be an approved used warranty so the t&c of that warranty, which is an insurance product will determine if it’s covered or not. The dealer had no right to encourage you to do track days as he doesn’t underwrite the warranty. Read through the policy wording, if there are any exclusions regarding track days or similar then I suspect the best you can hope for is an amount of good will.
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You say consumer rights but this might not be straightforward for these reasons:
“Told the dealership id be using it as a networking tool for my Supercar transport business, by doing runs, meets, shows, European road trips, trackdays etc etc. The dealership owner actually owned the R8 as his personal vehicle but sold it through his business. Not once did he tell me that if I tracked the car, I'd void my statutory rights, infact it was actively encouraged. The owner/director asked me to keep in touch post sale and send him pictures etc. “
“Told the dealership id be using it as a networking tool for my Supercar transport business, by doing runs, meets, shows, European road trips, trackdays etc etc. The dealership owner actually owned the R8 as his personal vehicle but sold it through his business. Not once did he tell me that if I tracked the car, I'd void my statutory rights, infact it was actively encouraged. The owner/director asked me to keep in touch post sale and send him pictures etc. “
Miserablegit said:
You say consumer rights but this might not be straightforward for these reasons:
“Told the dealership id be using it as a networking tool for my Supercar transport business, by doing runs, meets, shows, European road trips, trackdays etc etc. The dealership owner actually owned the R8 as his personal vehicle but sold it through his business. Not once did he tell me that if I tracked the car, I'd void my statutory rights, infact it was actively encouraged. The owner/director asked me to keep in touch post sale and send him pictures etc. “
IANAL“Told the dealership id be using it as a networking tool for my Supercar transport business, by doing runs, meets, shows, European road trips, trackdays etc etc. The dealership owner actually owned the R8 as his personal vehicle but sold it through his business. Not once did he tell me that if I tracked the car, I'd void my statutory rights, infact it was actively encouraged. The owner/director asked me to keep in touch post sale and send him pictures etc. “
This feels more like a purchase to further the business rather than a consumer purchase.
Miserablegit said:
You say consumer rights but this might not be straightforward for these reasons:
“Told the dealership id be using it as a networking tool for my Supercar transport business, by doing runs, meets, shows, European road trips, trackdays etc etc. The dealership owner actually owned the R8 as his personal vehicle but sold it through his business. Not once did he tell me that if I tracked the car, I'd void my statutory rights, infact it was actively encouraged. The owner/director asked me to keep in touch post sale and send him pictures etc. “
If it was a business purchase then the Sale of Goods Act can still be used.“Told the dealership id be using it as a networking tool for my Supercar transport business, by doing runs, meets, shows, European road trips, trackdays etc etc. The dealership owner actually owned the R8 as his personal vehicle but sold it through his business. Not once did he tell me that if I tracked the car, I'd void my statutory rights, infact it was actively encouraged. The owner/director asked me to keep in touch post sale and send him pictures etc. “
Canon_Fodder said:
The OP isn't asking about any 'warranty' issues, he's asking about the Consumers Rights Act 2015.
Assuming as others have alluded to that this is a private purchase and not a business purchase then If the OP didn’t reject the car within 30 days of taking delivery then the warranty will be the next fallback to getting the issue sorted.If you get a fault in the first 30 days you can reject it, but you have to notify the seller and the finance company that this is what you intend to do. If you decide to reject it on day 32 then you lose the short term right to reject and you must allow the seller once chance to repair which I assume would be done under warranty.
If the warranty excludes track use then the OPwill need to categorically prove that thie track day did not contribute to the gearbox failing.
Sad tale which has all the makings of a right old earner for legal brethren.
Putting aside natural OP subjective view on causation of the fault, fact is this is a 5 y.o. used performance car which was tracked shortly before major failure. So an expert engineering report will almost certainly be required to identify exact failure or sequence of failures: and then opine on the likely causation whether manufacturing defect (unlikely after 5 years and 18k), inadequate servicing or user enthusiasm. This will cost as the old box probably needs dismantling just to find out.
Unless that expert report is categoric, there is almost zero chance of getting a clean win in court. Judge will assess this objectively on basis the claimant has the onus to prove every element of his claim.
So read the warranty policy very carefully and hope cover is not voided. That is the cheapest option by far.
If the warranty policy is voided, ask if the box is BER or can be fixed. If BER check with the engineering expert if are there reconditioned or used replacements available.
Go legal only if you can afford to fix the broken car and feed the lawyers...
Putting aside natural OP subjective view on causation of the fault, fact is this is a 5 y.o. used performance car which was tracked shortly before major failure. So an expert engineering report will almost certainly be required to identify exact failure or sequence of failures: and then opine on the likely causation whether manufacturing defect (unlikely after 5 years and 18k), inadequate servicing or user enthusiasm. This will cost as the old box probably needs dismantling just to find out.
Unless that expert report is categoric, there is almost zero chance of getting a clean win in court. Judge will assess this objectively on basis the claimant has the onus to prove every element of his claim.
So read the warranty policy very carefully and hope cover is not voided. That is the cheapest option by far.
If the warranty policy is voided, ask if the box is BER or can be fixed. If BER check with the engineering expert if are there reconditioned or used replacements available.
Go legal only if you can afford to fix the broken car and feed the lawyers...
Firstly the definition of consumer is
“Consumer” means an individual acting for purposes that are wholly or mainly outside that individual’s trade, business, craft or profession.
Do you fall within?
Secondly, using a domestic car on a track is generally using it for something it isn't normally designed for (I presume) - but if you can show that he said it was OK to use on the track - that would help - i.e. any communications.
Finally, he may argue that it failed due to use abusing the car
So I think you have three hurdles to overcome
-are you a consumer
- was the car satisfactory quality and fit for purpose for use on a road car but you used it for inappropriate use
- did you cause the damage by abnormal use
“Consumer” means an individual acting for purposes that are wholly or mainly outside that individual’s trade, business, craft or profession.
Do you fall within?
Secondly, using a domestic car on a track is generally using it for something it isn't normally designed for (I presume) - but if you can show that he said it was OK to use on the track - that would help - i.e. any communications.
Finally, he may argue that it failed due to use abusing the car
So I think you have three hurdles to overcome
-are you a consumer
- was the car satisfactory quality and fit for purpose for use on a road car but you used it for inappropriate use
- did you cause the damage by abnormal use
Sorry guys, been busy with work..
Car was bought with personal money, personal finance, registerd in my name and the car is insured by a personal insurance policy.
The car for me, is a toy, but it just so happens that I transport other peoples toys. So for me to do a lot of the above mentioned events, I'd get to meet like minded people, fill them in with what I do for a living and potentially get some work from them, even though most of my work comes from dealerships and high-end clients who don't normally frequent these events (car shows aside).
I hope that's cleared the confusion.
I managed to speak to a lawyer and made contact with both the dealership and Finance Broker. Hopefully this is enough to potentially resolve the issue.
Car was bought with personal money, personal finance, registerd in my name and the car is insured by a personal insurance policy.
The car for me, is a toy, but it just so happens that I transport other peoples toys. So for me to do a lot of the above mentioned events, I'd get to meet like minded people, fill them in with what I do for a living and potentially get some work from them, even though most of my work comes from dealerships and high-end clients who don't normally frequent these events (car shows aside).
I hope that's cleared the confusion.
I managed to speak to a lawyer and made contact with both the dealership and Finance Broker. Hopefully this is enough to potentially resolve the issue.
HocusPocus said:
Sad tale which has all the makings of a right old earner for legal brethren.
Putting aside natural OP subjective view on causation of the fault, fact is this is a 5 y.o. used performance car which was tracked shortly before major failure. So an expert engineering report will almost certainly be required to identify exact failure or sequence of failures: and then opine on the likely causation whether manufacturing defect (unlikely after 5 years and 18k), inadequate servicing or user enthusiasm. This will cost as the old box probably needs dismantling just to find out.
Unless that expert report is categoric, there is almost zero chance of getting a clean win in court. Judge will assess this objectively on basis the claimant has the onus to prove every element of his claim.
So read the warranty policy very carefully and hope cover is not voided. That is the cheapest option by far.
If the warranty policy is voided, ask if the box is BER or can be fixed. If BER check with the engineering expert if are there reconditioned or used replacements available.
Go legal only if you can afford to fix the broken car and feed the lawyers...
Hi mate, thanks for your reply.Putting aside natural OP subjective view on causation of the fault, fact is this is a 5 y.o. used performance car which was tracked shortly before major failure. So an expert engineering report will almost certainly be required to identify exact failure or sequence of failures: and then opine on the likely causation whether manufacturing defect (unlikely after 5 years and 18k), inadequate servicing or user enthusiasm. This will cost as the old box probably needs dismantling just to find out.
Unless that expert report is categoric, there is almost zero chance of getting a clean win in court. Judge will assess this objectively on basis the claimant has the onus to prove every element of his claim.
So read the warranty policy very carefully and hope cover is not voided. That is the cheapest option by far.
If the warranty policy is voided, ask if the box is BER or can be fixed. If BER check with the engineering expert if are there reconditioned or used replacements available.
Go legal only if you can afford to fix the broken car and feed the lawyers...
The car had a full diagnostic download done and it showed no faults until the box failed 9 days after the track day.
The thing is, I'm using the term 'Track Day' but in essence, it was a vehicle familiarization day for me. I wanted to drive the car outwith the public highway, in a safe and controlled enviroment, to learn to drive the vehicle safely. I'm not one of these guys who cruise around the city centre at 2am, I prefer to drive my vehicles properly, as the manufacture intended. The car wasnt ragged on track, it was driven with mechanical sympathy, as all my cars are.
To me, It's just sickening watching these guys wash their hands of you, after giving them fists full of cash.
As I said in post 4, the owner of the dealership said I was "Awesome" for tracking the car. His attitude changed 9 days later.
Edited by Gazmar1 on Friday 15th October 15:51
Edited by Gazmar1 on Friday 15th October 15:52
Edited by Gazmar1 on Friday 15th October 15:53
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