10 Green Godesses....
Discussion
Was not surprised to see the local barracks filling up their Green Godesses at my local shell station today, apparently they are being deployed in London - have I missed something about the firefighters pay dispute? Is there an official strike date?
Anyway, support our firemen - it's outrageous that an underground train driver makes 10 grand a year more than a fireman!
edited because I can't spell!
Phil
>>> Edited by windsorphil on Monday 14th October 17:31
Anyway, support our firemen - it's outrageous that an underground train driver makes 10 grand a year more than a fireman!
edited because I can't spell!
Phil
>>> Edited by windsorphil on Monday 14th October 17:31
I work where the GG drivers are being trained. There are 850 cabs and they were all built around 1953.
That makes them very old.
And very slow.
I hate them. All the roads round here are gridlocked at no more than 40.
Be afraid... very afraid - they're on their way to a road near you soon.
That makes them very old.
And very slow.
I hate them. All the roads round here are gridlocked at no more than 40.
Be afraid... very afraid - they're on their way to a road near you soon.
Talking of strikes.
Are tube drivers paid more than London Bus drivers? If so it's shocking. Last strike I used the buses and couldn't believe the ammount of stress some of them have to put with yet still remain calm and very observant to all traffic, particularly cyclists. Plus they have to deal directly with passengers.
Tube drivers just have to stop at every station, go when green and shout "stand clear of the doors" at every station. Simple - doesn't deserve to paid more.
Are tube drivers paid more than London Bus drivers? If so it's shocking. Last strike I used the buses and couldn't believe the ammount of stress some of them have to put with yet still remain calm and very observant to all traffic, particularly cyclists. Plus they have to deal directly with passengers.
Tube drivers just have to stop at every station, go when green and shout "stand clear of the doors" at every station. Simple - doesn't deserve to paid more.
Anyway, support our firemen - it's outrageous that an underground train driver makes 10 grand a year more than a fireman!
That just means that tube drivers are overpaid, not that firemen are underpaid.
What firemen are asking for is £30k starting salary after training, ie a school leaver plus six months' training. And then move on up from there of course with experience. Plus a London weighting if appropriate. What do all you graduates out there think about that?
There are loads and loads of "deserving" jobs that attract public sympathy - but you can't run a country on the basis that firemen/nurses/teachers/whateverelseisflavourofthemonth are heroes so they should be paid whatever they care to ask for.
Interesting that of that off the cuff list, firemen have the shortest training and joint lowest entry qualifications, make arguably the least contribution to the country (expecting to be shot at for that one
), yet are asking for the most pay.
FourWheelDrift said: Talking of strikes.
Are tube drivers paid more than London Bus drivers? If so it's shocking. Last strike I used the buses and couldn't believe the ammount of stress some of them have to put with yet still remain calm and very observant to all traffic, particularly cyclists. Plus they have to deal directly with passengers.
Tube drivers just have to stop at every station, go when green and shout "stand clear of the doors" at every station. Simple - doesn't deserve to paid more.
was on telly t'other night. Tube driver = 31k, bus driver = 16k.
What do all you graduates out there think about that?
I'm not a graduate myself, but the other half has a first class degree and a PhD in Microbiology, Virology and HIV research, and has struggled for months to get a job in her field - finally got one with starting salary of £21k.
I think that this kind of work is just as important as putting out fires - its this kind of person who is coming up with cures for Cancer etc and sooner or later a lot us us on here (1 in 3) will be glad of that. They should get paid properly!
God damn it! An extra 9k per year would be just right for buying a TVR!!
I haven't heard any thing about the strike but one of my mates in the army has just been recalled from a posting in Canada (guarding us from polar bears!) to train as a fire fighter.
I always fancied being a fireman, a bit more job satisfaction than sitting behind a desk all day playing with numbers.
I always fancied being a fireman, a bit more job satisfaction than sitting behind a desk all day playing with numbers.
miniman said:I'm not a graduate myself, but the other half has a first class degree and a PhD in Microbiology, Virology and HIV research, and has struggled for months to get a job in her field - finally got one with starting salary of £21k.
I think that this kind of work is just as important as putting out fires - its this kind of person who is coming up with cures for Cancer etc and sooner or later a lot us us on here (1 in 3) will be glad of that. They should get paid properly!
God damn it! An extra 9k per year would be just right for buying a TVR!!
I too have spent a lifetime in life sciences, however the risks associated are much less than those faced by firefighters, and also there is greater opportunity for scientists to make fortunes in industry - I am not sure if there are such opportunities for firefighters.
I do agree that starting salaries in science are low, but I know a great deal of scientists earning £100,000k or more after 10-15 years in the industry (let alone those who do develop breakthrough technologies who often become multi-millionaires)-not sure how many six-figure firefighters there are.
Ohhh ... sorry I normally just lurk on these forums but I have got to reply to Windsorphil's last post.
I work in 'science' and always have done (well, since I got my first job anyway). I know of no one, absolutely no one working in science that is in it for the money. Smart people don't join science if they want to get rich (lawyers or business etc instead). Most scientists in this country work in academia in unviersities, like myself, and we are payed very little. Typical starting salary for someone with a degree, masters, PhD and upto 6 years post doctoral experience is about £19k - 20k. I've been working in universities for 7 years now (degree & PhD & 6 years post doc experience & 3 years lecturer experience) and am on much less than £30k. 11 Years in University education before my first permanent job. Industry, at least in the UK, is not much different in either salaries or contract terms in my experience. The US is quite different and yes industrial scientists may earn £100k plus, but very rarely in Europe.
The UK has a long histroy in Science and Engineering and it was upon this base that our present industrial high living standards are based. If we devalue it and refuse to pay our scientists properly (University and Industrial) we will lose this technology advantage, as we have begun to do. Its then we can look forward to either servicing other richer countries or sliding backwards in relative living standards.
It is very difficult to compare professions, eg fireman and scientist. You may not find many scientist willing to run into burning buildings etc but equally you will not find many firemen with the knowledge skills and insight required to tackle the problems that science does.
Horse for courses, and all equally valid.
I do however find it disturbing that some professions are able to extort such seemingly massive salaries, far beyond other similar professions. Basically the train drivers had the operators by the short and curlies because they got rid of so many of them when privatised. Serves them right really, I have little sympathy with the greedy train operators.
Right, sorry bout that, rant over.
cheers
I work in 'science' and always have done (well, since I got my first job anyway). I know of no one, absolutely no one working in science that is in it for the money. Smart people don't join science if they want to get rich (lawyers or business etc instead). Most scientists in this country work in academia in unviersities, like myself, and we are payed very little. Typical starting salary for someone with a degree, masters, PhD and upto 6 years post doctoral experience is about £19k - 20k. I've been working in universities for 7 years now (degree & PhD & 6 years post doc experience & 3 years lecturer experience) and am on much less than £30k. 11 Years in University education before my first permanent job. Industry, at least in the UK, is not much different in either salaries or contract terms in my experience. The US is quite different and yes industrial scientists may earn £100k plus, but very rarely in Europe.
The UK has a long histroy in Science and Engineering and it was upon this base that our present industrial high living standards are based. If we devalue it and refuse to pay our scientists properly (University and Industrial) we will lose this technology advantage, as we have begun to do. Its then we can look forward to either servicing other richer countries or sliding backwards in relative living standards.
It is very difficult to compare professions, eg fireman and scientist. You may not find many scientist willing to run into burning buildings etc but equally you will not find many firemen with the knowledge skills and insight required to tackle the problems that science does.
Horse for courses, and all equally valid.
I do however find it disturbing that some professions are able to extort such seemingly massive salaries, far beyond other similar professions. Basically the train drivers had the operators by the short and curlies because they got rid of so many of them when privatised. Serves them right really, I have little sympathy with the greedy train operators.
Right, sorry bout that, rant over.
cheers
Newbie,
You're quite right that those in academia are less well paid - I moved into the commercial world after four years of academic research.
However most universities and in particular Oxford, Cambridge, Surrey, Reading etc have spin out companies that are generating wealth for Professors and Researchers, many have their own venture capital fund too.
Six figure salaries are increasingly common in the Pharma and CRO industry and especially in the related software and technology sectors.
Still I value firefighters more than underground drivers...
Edited because I thought of something else...
>> Edited by windsorphil on Tuesday 15th October 10:54
>> Edited by windsorphil on Tuesday 15th October 11:07
You're quite right that those in academia are less well paid - I moved into the commercial world after four years of academic research.
However most universities and in particular Oxford, Cambridge, Surrey, Reading etc have spin out companies that are generating wealth for Professors and Researchers, many have their own venture capital fund too.
Six figure salaries are increasingly common in the Pharma and CRO industry and especially in the related software and technology sectors.
Still I value firefighters more than underground drivers...
Edited because I thought of something else...
>> Edited by windsorphil on Tuesday 15th October 10:54
>> Edited by windsorphil on Tuesday 15th October 11:07
I have a mate who is in the Marines and currently the majority of his unit are being prepared to cover the fire service. A lot of them are being sent up to Hull to complete their driving licences required and others are being sent for fire safety training. Therefore this may suggest it's not if the firefighters strike but rather when.
windsorphil said:
Still I value firefighters more than underground drivers...
I agree entirely - I probably didn't make my point the way I thought it! I think the biggest problem is the difference between skilled, trained people like nurses, firefighters, doctors, scientists etc. and those who do an important job like train driving.
The point is not that train drivers are worth 30k, it is that if they are, then so are nurses etc.
superlightr said: Why cant the army/firemen use the normal fire trucks instead of the old green goddesess?
Can they not train on them as the firemen have them all?
It is because the civvie Fire Engines are council owned and the army are not allowed to touch them.
Just to add my bit - I can't that one of my best mates has to risk his life for such a crap amount of money. Give em the raise I say...
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