MD-87 crash in Houston
Discussion
A privately owned MD-87 rejected the takeoff and went 900 meters off the runway. Fortunately, nobody was killed.
Not knowing the circumstances it is difficult to clearly understand why they were unable to stop within the airport boundary. There are many factors that go into calculating balanced field length, but once established it sets the parameters that determine the speed at which a RTO can be successfully accomplished without leaving the airport. A hard and fast rule (in the absence of structural or multiple engine failures) is that at V1 you are committed to fly. An engine failure will not prevent the successful takeoff. Of course, if there was power loss on both engines the crew did a great job.
Not knowing the circumstances it is difficult to clearly understand why they were unable to stop within the airport boundary. There are many factors that go into calculating balanced field length, but once established it sets the parameters that determine the speed at which a RTO can be successfully accomplished without leaving the airport. A hard and fast rule (in the absence of structural or multiple engine failures) is that at V1 you are committed to fly. An engine failure will not prevent the successful takeoff. Of course, if there was power loss on both engines the crew did a great job.
Aah. This is where people take the opportunity to show their knowledge, or lack of knowledge, about flying. The issue is, we do not know what happened yet, so endless guesswork will ensue with much puffing up of chests and links to previous incidents, maybe some personal anecdotes. But the fact remains: we do not know anything about the cause/s of this incident.
AER said:
V1 only works if you have the predicted acceleration. You also need a runway marker for a RTO decision point.
Nonsense. Every takeoff is calculated for the conditions and runways length, etc...including the use of reduced power. The ONLY reference for RTO decision is V1 bug as indicated on the airspeed indicator. Below V1 there is room to stop on the runway. Try to stop above that speed you'll be doing agricultural work and that is why an engine failure after reaching V1 is considered an airborne emergency. Edited by Swift93 on Wednesday 20th October 12:13
Tony1963 said:
Aah. This is where people take the opportunity to show their knowledge, or lack of knowledge, about flying. The issue is, we do not know what happened yet, so endless guesswork will ensue with much puffing up of chests and links to previous incidents, maybe some personal anecdotes. But the fact remains: we do not know anything about the cause/s of this incident.
There was no blame assigned by me. After spending a career flying around the world I'd rather have pilots vindicated. That being said, you seem to be very proud of the opportunity to castigate me, yet offer no insight into your aviation experience. Some people are interested in an experienced pilot's views. Clearly, you don't fall into that category.Swift93 said:
Tony1963 said:
Aah. This is where people take the opportunity to show their knowledge, or lack of knowledge, about flying. The issue is, we do not know what happened yet, so endless guesswork will ensue with much puffing up of chests and links to previous incidents, maybe some personal anecdotes. But the fact remains: we do not know anything about the cause/s of this incident.
There was no blame assigned by me. After spending a career flying around the world I'd rather have pilots vindicated. That being said, you seem to be very proud of the opportunity to castigate me, yet offer no insight into your aviation experience. Some people are interested in an experienced pilot's views. Clearly, you don't fall into that category.Interestingly, someone on the Pprune thread is claiming there is video of some sort of engine event occurring on the MD-87's take off roll, but no reference to the actual footage.
This being PH, I'm amazed nobody has jumped in and immediately claimed that the pilot was probably an elderly individual who got the loud/quiet orientation of the throttles confused - seems to be invariably the case when there are reports of a car driving into a shop.....
eharding said:
Tony1963 is Captain Fathom from The Proon, AICMFP. He's being told to do one over there as well.
Interestingly, someone on the Pprune thread is claiming there is video of some sort of engine event occurring on the MD-87's take off roll, but no reference to the actual footage.
This being PH, I'm amazed nobody has jumped in and immediately claimed that the pilot was probably an elderly individual who got the loud/quiet orientation of the throttles confused - seems to be invariably the case when there are reports of a car driving into a shop.....
Interestingly, someone on the Pprune thread is claiming there is video of some sort of engine event occurring on the MD-87's take off roll, but no reference to the actual footage.
This being PH, I'm amazed nobody has jumped in and immediately claimed that the pilot was probably an elderly individual who got the loud/quiet orientation of the throttles confused - seems to be invariably the case when there are reports of a car driving into a shop.....
Tony1963 said:
Aah. This is where people take the opportunity to show their knowledge, or lack of knowledge, about flying. The issue is, we do not know what happened yet, so endless guesswork will ensue with much puffing up of chests and links to previous incidents, maybe some personal anecdotes. But the fact remains: we do not know anything about the cause/s of this incident.
How on earth do you know what everyone reading or posting on the thread knows? Beyond Rational said:
When it comes to flying, the default NP&E response is to blame Ramadan induced fatigue, regardless of the time of year.
In aviation the employer blames the pilots (although praising them in the media) and the Captain blames the first officer, the first officer goes home and kicks the dog. Then the media posts all the captains Facebook photos and gets the dirt on him from ex wives, neighbours or ex employees.
essayer said:
I'll just throw in a METAR
BGTL 201156Z 26010KT 2400 -SN BR BKN016 OVC025 M03/M03 A2998 RMK AO2A VIS 2400V4000 SLP138 P0000 60000 70001 4/000 T10311031 11005 21031 52024 TSNO $
BGTL 201156Z 26010KT 2400 -SN BR BKN016 OVC025 M03/M03 A2998 RMK AO2A VIS 2400V4000 SLP138 P0000 60000 70001 4/000 T10311031 11005 21031 52024 TSNO $
I was thinking...minus 3?....snow?...in Houston?...in October?....and then checked the ICAO identifier....
Ok, here goes.
No, I’m not a pilot, and sorry if I’ve annoyed anyone.
I’ve been in aviation on the maintenance side since 1981 in both the military and civilian worlds.
I’ve seen the cultures change from management responding to incidents with “Who can we sack for this? to management asking themselves “ Is everyone ok? What do we know so far? Can we prevent a reoccurrence? Have we set the workforce up to fail?”
But the common thread is: don’t jump to conclusions.
As everyone who has posted so far in this thread knows, aircraft and flying are complex. Guessing at causes is a hobby for some, but not where I work. lol
No, I’m not a pilot, and sorry if I’ve annoyed anyone.
I’ve been in aviation on the maintenance side since 1981 in both the military and civilian worlds.
I’ve seen the cultures change from management responding to incidents with “Who can we sack for this? to management asking themselves “ Is everyone ok? What do we know so far? Can we prevent a reoccurrence? Have we set the workforce up to fail?”
But the common thread is: don’t jump to conclusions.
As everyone who has posted so far in this thread knows, aircraft and flying are complex. Guessing at causes is a hobby for some, but not where I work. lol
Tony1963 said:
<snip/edit> flying is complex <snip/edit>
Nah, it’s simple, it’s just pilots make bloody hard work of it sometimes….these two appear to have forgotten to actually fly at all.Joking aside I’m glad they all walked away from it and it’ll be interesting to see what the outcome of the investigation is.
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